CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Inthedetails]

Just an FYI:

Theft v. Robbery v. Burglary

Theft differs from robbery in that the theft is a taking of property that does not involve person-to-person interaction. A person merely takes property that does not belong to him.

Robbery, in contrast to theft, is a taking of property that doesinvolve person-to-person interaction with force, intimidation, and/or coercion.

Burglary, in contrast to both theft and robbery, is the entering of a building or residence with the intention to commit a theft or any felonious crime. Burglary does not require that property be stolen or that person-to-person interaction occur.
Theft v. Robbery v. Burglary | Sacramento Criminal Defense Lawyer

I'm trying to keep it all straight!

Always learning at WS...

 

[Gardener1850]

Not sure that what I’m wondering has anything to do with the “robbery,” but I keep wondering if KB’s phone was locked. If it was password protected, did PF know the password? If it was set up to unlock with thumbprint or facial recognition...

I’m sure this has been discussed on one of the threads before, but I must have missed it.

Someone posting in a previous thread linked to an article explaining that the fingerprint sensor would likely not work if tried after she was deceased-- it requires something more than simply the right fingerprint shapes to work (I can't recall the exact word used-- needs to be a warm, living person's finger was the impression I got). Apparently, using the dead person's finger only works in movies. JMO.

 

[gitana1]

ABC World News report tonight video

Idaho nurse under investigation in case of missing Colorado mother: Sources

32 year old nurse out of Twin Falls, ID being investigated for disposing of Kelsey’s phone

ABC news reporting a woman from twin falls is being investigated for disposing of KB's cell phone. No name being released in the absence of charges. This info has been floating around for awhile now. Nancy Grace dec 26 crime on line- but no specific info re cellphone , just a GF of PF being interogated. Then information, including the name of the person, on less credible sites

Thank you all!

I wonder how ABC found out? No charges. Usually if someone is being investigated they don't announce that. So I'm wondering if either, she is cooperating and is the reason for the solicitation charges or, it is because they're trying to put pressure on her.

How to Make a Will Legally Binding Regarding Custody of Children
I wanted to bring this over. Yesterday, there seemed to be a few that believe K could not have made arrangements for her daughter, in the event she (K) died.
The “custody” issue may be nothing more than a formality.
Since K has not been legally declared dead, I think her mom might still be able to produce a doc’ stating her wishes. Furthermore, imo, K being a pilot & a single mom, would have arrangements in place. Jmo
Personally, I can’t imagine any parent/s not documenting their wishes, just in case. So, at least the kids and their estate are handled per wishes of deceased parent/s.

MOO

The link is basically an ad for Legal zoom. What a person puts in a will as to the custody of their children may be considered depending on the type of case (probate, for example) but it's never binding in any state I'm aware of.

Best interest of the child is the legal standard no matter what. And if one parent is living the deaceased parent's wish that that other parent does not get custody, is irrelevant unless a third party can step in and show that the other parent is incapable of caring for the child.

The best interest of the child legal standard will look at things like who can provide for the child's needs, who the child is bonded with, the history of contact and where the child has lived, the health, safety and welfare of the child and how a custody determination can protect the child's health, safety and welfare.

In a probate/guardianship case of both parents are deceased and have named a guardian who agrees, the court will give great weight to the parents' wishes. But ultimately it has to do with the circumstances and who can best care for the child.

This is a CPS case and the parents' wishes rarely come into play in such a case.

 

[oviedo]

Question for attorneys, could the courts possibly give joint custody to both grandparents and wouldn't a visitation schedule be worked out as well?

I am not an attorney but I found this - Colorado Grandparent Rights & Visitation

 

[jaspermac]

Oh boy. ... wish they would release her name. Chomping at the bit here.

Funny, I don't care about that, to me it doesn't matter. Knowing her name or what she looked like won't give us any more info or insight. Just the truth about what happened is what I want to know. But that won't happen for quite some time.

 

[Steelslady]

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Custody hearing for daughter of murder suspect Patrick Frazee and his missing fiancée, Kelsey Berreth has begun. Berreth’s mother is on speaker phone from another location. #9NEWS #9WantsToKnow

I am glad Cheryl didn't have to be there in person for this. I can't imagine the anguish and heartache she is living through, knowing her daughter has been murdered. I am sure she is worried to pieces about them getting custody of the baby. Even partial custody or visitation, I'd be scared to death, to be honest. Until they know all of the details and who was involved in Kelsey's disappearance, they should not be able to see that baby, unless the visits are supervised by CPS.

 

[Trudie]

Regarding use of the term “affair” - It all depends on the nature of PF and KB’s relationship. If KB thought the relationship was exclusive and PF gave the appearance of the same yet was sneaking around with someone else, I think most people would call that an “affair” or “cheating”. I know I would.

I don’t know what LE is certain of. They’ve said more arrests are an absolute possibility. Maybe they have enough evidence that PF was involved to charge him but are still investigating before bringing charges against the other person(s). The affair partner certainly could be involved in the murder itself when all is said and done. But it’s likely that PF would have needed to give her KB’s address, schedule, etc

Might they have met online, as reported, he helps her with her move, they become friends, things go further..... but not necessarily to a “relationship” level & she winds up pregnant? So, she has the baby & they co parent, his mom helping, etc.?
Bring in another woman that wants more more more. P has now two excuses he can’t give more more more. A baby & his mom. They both need him. Woman gets very angry & a plan is hatched to get rid of the baby mom? Not meaning the nurse helped but did she discuss a plan, so to speak? And, he ran with it?
The reason I think there was never no relationship is the declining cattle price excuse is just too lame. That doesn’t even sound like something a farmer/rancher would say.
Is that something maybe that was told to Mr. & Mrs. B to satisfy their curiosity? Some that are deeply devout can’t understand pregnancy outside of marriage & expect a marriage ASAP.

All MOO

 

[BRRI]

I agree. I wonder why all of the "interveneing" from PF's family. It feels like they consider little K their property and are not looking at what is the best for her. IMO

Sadly, I think that’s very common in many custody hearings. It morphs from what is best for the child, to who will “win” possession.

 

[Jupiter05]

I don't think that is it. They probably think they are best for her and they are probably terrified they will never see her again if she goes to the Berreths. Not saying i support their custody, just that they are probably good people just like you and I, stuck in a nightmare.

IMO they are adding to the pain of the Berreth family. They would surely get visitation rights. Custody is a whole different animal. I am thinking PF's sister got involved because PF's mother is not in good enough health to raise a baby on her own. They really should stand down and let things be for now. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

ITA. This could be far more complicated. DM says PF and IdahoNurse having been having an affair since meeting in 2016 - the same time PF and KB got together and KB moved to CO. PF has... charisma.

BBM
Gaak.....charisma, pppppft! I'd have to sport a set of those horse blinders the size of CO and even then it ain't happening. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

ITA. This could be far more complicated. DM says PF and IdahoNurse having been having an affair since meeting in 2016 - the same time PF and KB got together and KB moved to CO. PF has... charisma.

Maybe PF and IdahoNurse had plans to be together in 2016....and KB's pregnancy got in the way. They finally remedied the barrier to them being together? The baby wasn't an issue, but a baby-mama who didn't leave was.

I'm not convinced that is the right theory, but tossing it on the table of possibilities.

jmo

edited for clarity

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you all!

I wonder how ABC found out? No charges. Usually if someone is being investigated they don't announce that. So I'm wondering if either, she is cooperating and is the reason for the solicitation charges or, it is because they're trying to put pressure on her.



The link is basically an ad for Legal zoom. What a person puts in a will as to the custody of their children may be considered depending on the type of case (probate, for example) but it's never binding in any state I'm aware of.

Best interest of the child is the legal standard no matter what. And if one parent is living the deaceased parent's wish that that other parent does not get custody, is irrelevant unless a third party can step in and show that the other parent is incapable of caring for the child.

The best interest of the child legal standard will look at things like who can provide for the child's needs, who the child is bonded with, the history of contact and where the child has lived, the health, safety and welfare of the child and how a custody determination can protect the child's health, safety and welfare.

In a probate/guardianship case of both parents are deceased and have named a guardian who agrees, the court will give great weight to the parents' wishes. But ultimately it has to do with the circumstances and who can best care for the child.

This is a CPS case and the parents' wishes rarely come into play in such a case.

ABC's sources were two of the Idaho nurse's relatives and an unnamed person in law enforcement. She (the nurse) has an attorney.

 

[BRRI]

Shocking- NOT! I had a strange feeling he wanted Kelsey out of his life for someone else.

If they were dating since 2016...that would mean the nurse was around first, and cheated on. What a mess.

 

[Trudie]

I am glad Cheryl didn't have to be there in person for this. I can't imagine the anguish and heartache she is living through, knowing her daughter has been murdered. I am sure she is worried to pieces about them getting custody of the baby. Even partial custody or visitation, I'd be scared to death, to be honest. Until they know all of the details and who was involved in Kelsey's disappearance, they should not be able to see that baby, unless the visits are supervised by CPS.

Oh, me too. I thought her atty might represent her & she wd not have to be on phone. She prob wanted to hear all details. I would. So glad she didn’t have to fly in for a 15 minute inconclusive hearing.

 

[SandyQLS]

Respectfully, the first never said he cheated on her. That is her current boyfriend who spoke. I respect and believe that LE charged PF because they have indisputable evidence against him. Who cares if someone calls it an affair? He is charged with a lot more than an affair! Sounds to me like you are on his side. Let’s not go there.

I am welcome to my own opinions. I am not required to agree with you.

 

[oviedo]

Thank you all!

I wonder how ABC found out? No charges. Usually if someone is being investigated they don't announce that. So I'm wondering if either, she is cooperating and is the reason for the solicitation charges or, it is because they're trying to put pressure on her.



The link is basically an ad for Legal zoom. What a person puts in a will as to the custody of their children may be considered depending on the type of case (probate, for example) but it's never binding in any state I'm aware of.

Best interest of the child is the legal standard no matter what. And if one parent is living the deaceased parent's wish that that other parent does not get custody, is irrelevant unless a third party can step in and show that the other parent is incapable of caring for the child.

The best interest of the child legal standard will look at things like who can provide for the child's needs, who the child is bonded with, the history of contact and where the child has lived, the health, safety and welfare of the child and how a custody determination can protect the child's health, safety and welfare.

In a probate/guardianship case of both parents are deceased and have named a guardian who agrees, the court will give great weight to the parents' wishes. But ultimately it has to do with the circumstances and who can best care for the child.

This is a CPS case and the parents' wishes rarely come into play in such a case.

I am wondering if there isn't a LE leak on purpose? This custody issue is going to be complicated IMO - a child is not property so you can't just bequeath them to someone. We have pre-need guardians now in my state but I do not believe CO has this. From what I read, the Court would have to judge PF unfit - not sure if his being in jail affects this but if he is named the custodial parent he then could place the child with his family? I sure hope not.

 

[gitana1]

I wonder who is who in this video. the only one we have seen prior is PF's mother. Looks to me like the father walking ahead of the mother, PF's mother, one of the women is an attorney with the sister, then perhaps the brother and his wife ?

The man in the front seems to be an attorney. No one else is carrying legal paperwork or a notepad. Does he have a living father?

 

[Trudie]

If they were dating since 2016...that would mean the nurse was around first, and cheated on. What a mess.

Exactly. Woman scorned. Scorned to the nth degree. Not only did he cheat......he impregnated another.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

I agree. I wonder why all of the "interveneing" from PF's family. It feels like they consider little K their property and are not looking at what is the best for her. IMO

This may not be popular opinion, but his family has been a part of her life up to this point, and taking those relationships away can be just as detrimental to the baby. I know that it's more likely than not that her father is responsible for her mother's death, but she is 14 months old and hopefully does not know that, all she is feeling is the void of her mother and her father and most things she is familiar with.

The intervening could just be to make sure that they get visitation? I do hope that she gets to stay with the Berreth's... but I can understand why his family would still like to be a part of the babies life, whether it is visitation or custody.

I also wonder if they didn't intervene now, would it be harder down the road?

For the lawyers out there... will the judge take into consideration PF's wishes at all? If not, why even have him a party to the hearings?

 

[gitana1]

Perhaps it is British usage, but when an unmarried man and a divorced woman have a personal relationship, that is not an "affair". PF certainly has something all these women want. What makes LE so certain that PF murdered KB instead of one of these spurned women the DM has reported on? (the one who says he "cheated" on her while she was in the hospital years ago, this IdahoNurse having an "affair")

Evidence.