CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Colorfuel]

From what was posted on WS during Chris Watts case, CO custody is different than CA. If a parent is awarded full custody of the child,
that parent can move whever they wish without having the consent of the other parent.

I think a parent with full custody, when the other parent has no custodial rights, would be able to move. But since they were co-parenting, if they had never been to court over this to work out a custody agreement and she tried to just move away, he could go to family court and file for shared custody and for her to either come back or leave their daughter in his care as primary residential parent.

So she could not just move away based on the arrangement they had imo. But that doesn’t mean he knew that. I’ve seen parents try to convince the other parent they had no rights etc.

 

[Trudie]

I think they are making a show of force - to convey that the whole F family wants to keep little K among them. I don't blame them....but just wish they would stop and let the B family raise baby K. I understand the F family loves K too....but the bigger picture and the bigger kindness, imo, would be to let K go to her mommy's family.

I just get so MAD that PF brought this mess, chaos, and heartbreak upon so many people.

jmo

I think P is gonna flip this to the nurse. The nurse is the murderer. That, imo, is what he’s telling his legal eagle.

 

[Kapua]

If they were dating since 2016...that would mean the nurse was around first, and cheated on. What a mess.

IMHO, he may have been juggling them both.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Is it possible that K & P’s relationship was only ever casual? That her family, miles away, believed it was much more? Especially after a pregnancy/child is added to the equation?
Perhaps, prior to meeting P (reportedly online), K was specifically trying to get on at DOSS & reached out on SM to make friends, prior to an anticipated move.
I have no credible knowledge of how the two met. Only what’s been reported.
IF another woman thought she was the main woman in a the stable, or perhaps left her marriage for a relationship with a guy, then finds out he fathered a child.......I’m thinking all hell would break loose.

Hypothetical MOO & all that jazz

I

Is it possible that K & P’s relationship was only ever casual? That her family, miles away, believed it was much more? Especially after a pregnancy/child is added to the equation?
Perhaps, prior to meeting P (reportedly online), K was specifically trying to get on at DOSS & reached out on SM to make friends, prior to an anticipated move.
I have no credible knowledge of how the two met. Only what’s been reported.
IF another woman thought she was the main woman in a the stable, or perhaps left her marriage for a relationship with a guy, then finds out he fathered a child.......I’m thinking all hell would break loose.

Hypothetical MOO & all that jazz

I don't know the nature of KB and PF's relationship but I'd like to share my experience...which is strikingly similar to their situation.
I am "engaged" to the father of my 13 month old son. We do not live together. We are not in an ideal relationship. I call him my fiance and wear my ring. He asked me after I was pregnant and it came out later he only asked because he thought that is what he wanted to hear. Our baby is with me all week and one or two nights a week the three of us spend together as a family. If our relationship does not improve or move forward I don't see it lasting this way forever. He can be sweet when he wants to be and incredibly difficult other times. We have discussed going our separate ways and he told me he will fight to make sure he gets full custody of our child. I think he would be awful to coparent with him if we broke up because I feel like he would try his best to undermine any virtues and structure I instill/provide for our son just out of spite. Anyway...Even after all this negative stuff I'm writing I still have mixed feelings...I know I can only control my behavior and I just try to be the best mother and partner I can be. But I try not to focus so much on the future...maybe this is similar to the situation KB found herself in? Also...I too moved to take a chance on love, and he is also the youngest of 4. It kind of freaks me out. Oh and even as dysfunctional as we sound, I would consider it an affair if he started seeing someone else. We are in a monogamous relationship, so yeah.

 

[kkdj]

Robbery is the crime of taking or attempting to take anything of value by force, threat of force, or by putting the victim in fear.

 

[oviedo]

If I were KB's family, I would petition to determine paternity first. IMO

 

[BRRI]

Someone posting in a previous thread linked to an article explaining that the fingerprint sensor would likely not work if tried after she was deceased-- it requires something more than simply the right fingerprint shapes to work (I can't recall the exact word used-- needs to be a warm, living person's finger was the impression I got). Apparently, using the dead person's finger only works in movies. JMO.

Older phones with fingerprint recognition have a better chance of working than newer phones. Newer phones need blood flow and the energy from it to read the peaks and valleys of a fingerprint. The older phones worked more from an image of the fingerprint vs reading peaks and valleys.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I'm thinking anyone fool enough to take the phone,and help cover for him, would be fool enough to believe they could get away with the 'false Ping', and keep the phone to send more messages at a later date,to go along with the false narrative that she took off.
I think LE knew where the phone was, and tracked it to the weak link, but needed a search warrant to get it, or they confronted this nurse, and let her know they were onto her. So she gave up the ghost so to speak.
MOO.

That cell phone was how they were going to be caught right from the start- I am as amazed as you are that someone could be so stupid that they would assist him that way and think they were going to get away with it. Why on earth would you be in a relationship with a person who would do something like that and then put you at that much risk.

 

[enelram]

ITA. This could be far more complicated. DM says PF and IdahoNurse having been having an affair since meeting in 2016 - the same time PF and KB got together and KB moved to CO. PF has... charisma.

No, not Charisma.... he has a HUGE Brain,
too bad it's located in his BVD's.

 

[PrairieWind]

Question for attorneys, could the courts possibly give joint custody to both grandparents and wouldn't a visitation schedule be worked out as well?

I think that would be very unlikely. I think the court would want to give the girl a stable home without a lot of moving back and forth that could be confusing to her.

 

[jaspermac]

Thank you all!

I wonder how ABC found out? No charges. Usually if someone is being investigated they don't announce that. So I'm wondering if either, she is cooperating and is the reason for the solicitation charges or, it is because they're trying to put pressure on her.

They said they tried her lawyer for comments- so she lawyered up- but that doesn't mean she isn't co-operating. But they have been talking to her for a long time- if Nancy Green's sources knew about it Dec 26. So I'm guessing LE thinks she isn't telling everything or they can't agree on a plea for information . So yes I think they are trying to put pressure on.

 

[Loulu]

I think they are making a show of force - to convey that the whole F family wants to keep little K among them. I don't blame them....but just wish they would stop and let the B family raise baby K. I understand the F family loves K too....but the bigger picture and the bigger kindness, imo, would be to let K go to her mommy's family.

I just get so MAD that PF brought this mess, chaos, and heartbreak upon so many people.

jmo

One would also hope they could put that sweet baby’s best interests ahead of their own , meaning stability. That poor child does not need a life of tug of war. She will have enough to deal with. Wait til this mess is over then go for visitation .

 

[BRRI]

Maybe PF and IdahoNurse had plans to be together in 2016....and KB's pregnancy got in the way. They finally remedied the barrier to them being together? The baby wasn't an issue, but a baby-mama who didn't leave was.

I'm not convinced that is the right theory, but tossing it on the table of possibilities.

jmo

edited for clarity

Hm she was married before though. Until 2016 as per the news articles. She could have had kids of her own too. So she would have had the same situation...except the cheating part.

 

[PommyMommy]

It might be awhile until we hear what decisions were made this morning...

Kevin Vaughan on Twitter
Members of Patrick Frazee’s family have left the Teller County Courthouse. We expect word later today on and decisions made in today’s custody hearing for the daughter of Frazee and his missing fiancée, Kelsey Berreth. #9NEWS #9WantsToKnow

 

[BRRI]

IMHO, he may have been juggling them both.

Wouldn’t be hard to do with one being 12 hours away in Idaho

 

[K9Enzo]

I don't think that is it. They probably think they are best for her and they are probably terrified they will never see her again if she goes to the Berreths. Not saying i support their custody, just that they are probably good people just like you and I, stuck in a nightmare.

I agree. I don't think PF's family, including his mom, should be viewed or treated as if they committed the crime(s) PF was arrested for. Now, I will gladly eat my words if LE charges anyone of them with connection to this horrific murder.

I'm not even comfortable giving my opinion, on who the very young child should be in the permanent care of moving forward. Of course it seems logical that it would be the victims family, but I have no clue. The court will have to decide after careful consideration and I'm sure opinions from experts.

Child custody cases are very emotional and can become very nasty, IMO. Mix in the vile actions of the father and this is just tragic, all around.

 

[BRRI]

No, not Charisma.... he has a HUGE Brain,
too bad it's located in his BVD's.

I just laughed really hard

 

[PommyMommy]

I

I don't know the nature of KB and PF's relationship but I'd like to share my experience...which is strikingly similar to their situation.
I am "engaged" to the father of my 13 month old son. We do not live together. We are not in an ideal relationship. I call him my fiance and wear my ring. He asked me after I was pregnant and it came out later he only asked because he thought that is what he wanted to hear. Our baby is with me all week and one or two nights a week the three of us spend together as a family. If our relationship does not improve or move forward I don't see it lasting this way forever. He can be sweet when he wants to be and incredibly difficult other times. We have discussed going our separate ways and he told me he will fight to make sure he gets full custody of our child. I think he would be awful to coparent with him if we broke up because I feel like he would try his best to undermine any virtues and structure I instill/provide for our son just out of spite. Anyway...Even after all this negative stuff I'm writing I still have mixed feelings...I know I can only control my behavior and I just try to be the best mother and partner I can be. But I try not to focus so much on the future...maybe this is similar to the situation KB found herself in? Also...I too moved to take a chance on love, and he is also the youngest of 4. It kind of freaks me out. Oh and even as dysfunctional as we sound, I would consider it an affair if he started seeing someone else. We are in a monogamous relationship, so yeah.

Welcome to Websleuths, Sweetbeach!

 

[gitana1]

This may not be popular opinion, but his family has been a part of her life up to this point, and taking those relationships away can be just as detrimental to the baby. I know that it's more likely than not that her father is responsible for her mother's death, but she is 14 months old and hopefully does not know that, all she is feeling is the void of her mother and her father and most things she is familiar with.

The intervening could just be to make sure that they get visitation? I do hope that she gets to stay with the Berreth's... but I can understand why his family would still like to be a part of the babies life, whether it is visitation or custody.

I also wonder if they didn't intervene now, would it be harder down the road?

For the lawyers out there... will the judge take into consideration PF's wishes at all? If not, why even have him a party to the hearings?

He's the father and so he has a right to be at the hearings. They will listen to his wishes but ultimately determine what is the best interest of the child.

In CPS cases they intervene to get custody, in my experience. Not visitation. They make orders for visitation for a parent but not often for third parties like grandparents, generally. Although it is possible. That typically happens more with guardianship cases or cases where grandparents intervene in a custody case between parents.

It's true that she has spent time with PF's family and that would be something the court would give great weight to.

My personal feelings are negative toward custody of the child to his family. I have a bad feeling about them. I suspect that is an enabling, dysfunctional environment much like the families of many such murderers are.

My feeling is that Kelsey's death is related to possession of the child, entitlement and enmeshment and I don't believe that those attitudes came from nowhere. To me, unsupervised visitation to that family would feel scary.

So I hope her family got the baby. They seem like gentle, normal people. And her mother apparently saw the baby frequently so she's not a stranger.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

If I were KB's family, I would petition to determine paternity first. IMO

Yes, Kelsey's mom should do anything she can to stall having to share custody with murderer Patrick's family. (The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.)