CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Inthedetails]

I am wondering if there isn't a LE leak on purpose? This custody issue is going to be complicated IMO - a child is not property so you can't just bequeath them to someone. We have pre-need guardians now in my state but I do not believe CO has this. From what I read, the Court would have to judge PF unfit - not sure if his being in jail affects this but if he is named the custodial parent he then could place the child with his family? I sure hope not.

Yes, I've been curious how much his desires will be considered. He's not convicted of a crime, but charged with one - and he's the parent of the child. I don't know if his wishes as father will be given priority??

I am hoping the fact that Baby K is with her B family right now is a sign of how the custody case will develop. Fingers crossed.

jmo

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Welcome to Websleuths, Sweetbeach!

Thank you!

 

[Trudie]

I am wondering if there isn't a LE leak on purpose? This custody issue is going to be complicated IMO - a child is not property so you can't just bequeath them to someone. We have pre-need guardians now in my state but I do not believe CO has this. From what I read, the Court would have to judge PF unfit - not sure if his being in jail affects this but if he is named the custodial parent he then could place the child with his family? I sure hope not.

Maybe perm’ custody wont be awarded until he’s had his trial or pled. He can’t parent from prison, if he’s found guilty. Not day to day parenting. IMO

 

[Steelslady]

Is it possible that K & P’s relationship was only ever casual? That her family, miles away, believed it was much more? Especially after a pregnancy/child is added to the equation?
Perhaps, prior to meeting P (reportedly online), K was specifically trying to get on at DOSS & reached out on SM to make friends, prior to an anticipated move.
I have no credible knowledge of how the two met. Only what’s been reported.
IF another woman thought she was the main woman in a the stable, or perhaps left her marriage for a relationship with a guy, then finds out he fathered a child.......I’m thinking all hell would break loose.

Hypothetical MOO & all that jazz

No, I don't. I truly think Kelsey had no clue he was cheating on her. For some reason, I think this woman truly loved him and was happy about planning her wedding, getting a Christmas tree to decorate.

Some folks are book smart but are naive. She was probably a sweet and kind girl and because she was busy with work, taking care of her baby, housework, shopping, etc, she didn't have time to see red flags. To me, it sounds like she trusted PF and was totally clueless about his evil side.

I also think we're really being disrespectful to Kelsey's mother here. She truly believes Kelsey was happy. She gave her a recipe for Kelsey to make. Kelsey told her of her plans to decorate for Christmas. Ever hear of mother's instinct? Most of us Mom's have built in lie detectors, even when our children live states or countries away. My oldest is always stunned how I know when she's fibbing, trying to keep me from worrying. Cherly had absolutely NO REASON to doubt Kelsey on Thanksgiving Day! She did admit, that the video of her at the store was surprising, because Kelsey wasn't all made up like she usually was- that was the other thing that she said that may or may not have given a small clue that all was not right for Kelsey- then again, if moms go to a store real quick, we always joke about how there's a high school reunion there when you look your worst.

I truly feel Kelsey was clueless. She was happy for the most part- probably wanted to get married sooner, but PF had handy dandy excuses ready, and she fell for them. This guy is smooth. He somehow got a nurse, who he's allegedly having a relationship with, to bring Kelsey's phone back to Idaho with her and dispose of it. If this nurse would do such a thing, obviously falling for some tale or sweet nothings of PF's, why wouldn't Kelsey do the same?

 

[gitana1]

ABC's sources were two of the Idaho nurse's relatives and an unnamed person in law enforcement. She (the nurse) has an attorney.

Yes. But did these people seek out the media? If LE leaked the info, why?

 

[KBB87]

This is one of the biggest reasons for young people to make a will. Once you have children, its a good idea to make a will that sets out the parents wishes for the children in the event something happens to both parents. If one parent should pass away, the other will always get full custody (absent some termination of rights or incarceration issues). But its very common for wills to say that in the event both parents pass, it is declarant's wish that so and so be awarded custody and guardian for the minor children and often sets up a trust for the children. Court's will almost always follow those wishes as much as is possible.

Thank you! This was one of my main questions yesterday, I wasn’t sure what would happen since PF was still alive and shared custody. I guess the incarceration issue should take care of that.

 

[Gardener1850]

I don't think that is it. They probably think they are best for her and they are probably terrified they will never see her again if she goes to the Berreths. Not saying i support their custody, just that they are probably good people just like you and I, stuck in a nightmare.

I commend you for being so fair and open minded. I usually feel that way too-- that the family members of the accused are completely innocent and caught up in a nightmare they didn't make nor choose. This case is different though... Perhaps I'm hesitant to give them the benefit of the doubt on their reasons of filing for custody because of PF's solicitation to murder charges. Who did he ask 3 times to murder KB? Or did he ask 3 people to help him? To be clear, I'm not accusing his 3 siblings of anything, but at the same time, I can't seem to give his family sympathy until we find out more about those solicitation charges. It feels like the family members intervening to get custody of Baby K could be doing so at PF's behest. JMO.

 

[The Saint]

Well, here's the motive --- GF split from husband and PF wanted to be free of KB.
Patrick Frazee 'was having an affair for months' with Idaho nurse | Daily Mail Online

IMO

 

[SandyQLS]

Someone posting in a previous thread linked to an article explaining that the fingerprint sensor would likely not work if tried after she was deceased-- it requires something more than simply the right fingerprint shapes to work (I can't recall the exact word used-- needs to be a warm, living person's finger was the impression I got). Apparently, using the dead person's finger only works in movies. JMO.

When I first acquired a smartphone, I did as suggested and created a password. I deleted it after about two weeks because it was annoying. Many adults find no reason for these locking features. Maybe KB had no reason to lock her phone either.

 

[missy1974]

He's the father and so he has a right to be at the hearings. They will listen to his wishes but ultimately determine what is the best interest of the child.

In CPS cases they intervene to get custody, in my experience. Not visitation. They make orders for visitation for a parent but not often for third parties like grandparents, generally. Although it is possible. That typically happens more with guardianship cases or cases where grandparents intervene in a custody case between parents.

It's true that she has spent time with PF's family and that would be something the court would give great weight to.

My personal feelings are negative toward custody of the child to his family. I have a bad feeling about them. I suspect that is an enabling, dysfunctional environment much like the families of many such murderers are.

My feeling is that Kelsey's death is related to possession of the child, entitlement and enmeshment and I don't believe that those attitudes came from nowhere. To me, unsupervised visitation to that family would feel scary.

So I hope her family got the baby. They seem like gentle, normal people. And her mother apparently saw the baby frequently so she's not a stranger.

I don't disagree that this could have all been about custody of the baby, but we don't actually know that. I know that LE is not involved in the custody hearings; however, I would hope that if they had any information that he had help from a family member that it can be brought to the attention of the judge making a decision in this case.

 

[GHgal]

Per HLN the Patrick’s sister and mother are intervening on the child custody case today.

 

[Jupiter05]

Yes. But did these people seek out the media? If LE leaked the info, why?

I have the impression that a reporter flushed them out following leads and using "tactics" IMO

 

[KBB87]

The link is basically an ad for Legal zoom. What a person puts in a will as to the custody of their children may be considered depending on the type of case (probate, for example) but it's never binding in any state I'm aware of.

Best interest of the child is the legal standard no matter what. And if one parent is living the deaceased parent's wish that that other parent does not get custody, is irrelevant unless a third party can step in and show that the other parent is incapable of caring for the child.

The best interest of the child legal standard will look at things like who can provide for the child's needs, who the child is bonded with, the history of contact and where the child has lived, the health, safety and welfare of the child and how a custody determination can protect the child's health, safety and welfare.

In a probate/guardianship case of both parents are deceased and have named a guardian who agrees, the court will give great weight to the parents' wishes. But ultimately it has to do with the circumstances and who can best care for the child.

This is a CPS case and the parents' wishes rarely come into play in such a case.

SBM.

Thank you and all the other lawyers for weighing in! I didn’t think a will would be legally binding, but I’m not a lawyer so I wasn’t really sure.

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes. But did these people seek out the media? If LE leaked the info, why?

It sounds to me like the media found them since they all reportedly spoke with ABC (Clayton Sandell). I don't know why LE would leak the information.
MOO

 

[GordianKnot]

PF is completely toxic to all the women in his life. IMO, he's a misogynist.

Look at all the females whose lives he (IMO) has single-handedly destroyed...KB murdered, her mother forever devastated, his little daughter now destined to go through life without her mother, the Twin Falls nurse chick, who appears to have decided she wants to be fashion twins with PF, sporting Crocs and wearing pink anklets. Heck, even his own mother's life has been ruined.

What boggles the mind is that he'll likely be getting lots of letters from sympathetic female "admirers" in the hoosegow. Gag me with a spoon.

All of the above = JMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Police investigate whether Idaho nurse, 32, disposed of Kelsey Berreth's cell phone | Daily Mail Online

That was the agreement prior to that time in the days after Frazee was arrested, but there was a unexpected change when Sheila filed a motion to intervene.

She has remained a staunch defender of her son through this all, despite not speaking publicly once.

She is at all his hearings, filed this motion and for the past 20 years has lived alone with Frazee on her 35-acre ranch.

 

[Gardenista]

Thank you all!

I wonder how ABC found out? No charges. Usually if someone is being investigated they don't announce that. So I'm wondering if either, she is cooperating and is the reason for the solicitation charges or, it is because they're trying to put pressure on her.

The main ABC reporter on the case is in the FB group where this info was revealed. IMO, he got the info there and then started bird-dogging people who know her.

 

[Trudie]

No, I don't. I truly think Kelsey had no clue he was cheating on her. For some reason, I think this woman truly loved him and was happy about planning her wedding, getting a Christmas tree to decorate.

Some folks are book smart but are naive. She was probably a sweet and kind girl and because she was busy with work, taking care of her baby, housework, shopping, etc, she didn't have time to see red flags. To me, it sounds like she trusted PF and was totally clueless about his evil side.

I also think we're really being disrespectful to Kelsey's mother here. She truly believes Kelsey was happy. She gave her a recipe for Kelsey to make. Kelsey told her of her plans to decorate for Christmas. Ever hear of mother's instinct? Most of us Mom's have built in lie detectors, even when our children live states or countries away. My oldest is always stunned how I know when she's fibbing, trying to keep me from worrying. Cherly had absolutely NO REASON to doubt Kelsey on Thanksgiving Day! She did admit, that the video of her at the store was surprising, because Kelsey wasn't all made up like she usually was- that was the other thing that she said that may or may not have given a small clue that all was not right for Kelsey- then again, if moms go to a store real quick, we always joke about how there's a high school reunion there when you look your worst.

I truly feel Kelsey was clueless. She was happy for the most part- probably wanted to get married sooner, but PF had handy dandy excuses ready, and she fell for them. This guy is smooth. He somehow got a nurse, who he's allegedly having a relationship with, to bring Kelsey's phone back to Idaho with her and dispose of it. If this nurse would do such a thing, obviously falling for some tale or sweet nothings of PF's, why wouldn't Kelsey do the same?

I’m a mom.
It’s my opinion that CB MAY have interpreted things differently than they were meant. I don’t dispute K was happy. She had her baby, her new home, her career. She didn’t need P for happiness, imo.

MOO

 

[allboys]

Someone posting in a previous thread linked to an article explaining that the fingerprint sensor would likely not work if tried after she was deceased-- it requires something more than simply the right fingerprint shapes to work (I can't recall the exact word used-- needs to be a warm, living person's finger was the impression I got). Apparently, using the dead person's finger only works in movies. JMO.

So, if she was tied up or somehow forced to unlock her phone, could this play into “robbery,” I wonder?

 

[Snow Flower]

It’s interesting to me that PF, though talking about it actively did nothing until Thanksgiving when the other woman was there. If she was a woman scorned she might have played a huge part in this. Her motive would have been to have PF all to herself. MOO