CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #23 *ARREST*

[Love Never Fails]

I do think that we’ll have a pretty good idea as to his motive, but that could be a long time in coming.

Text messages, people close to them, the person he solicited, someone or something should be able to shed some light on this.

You mentioned a trigger....
I just see him as cold and mean and someone who didn’t want to see KB anymore. I.e. getting rid of her. But keeping custody of The baby for his mom and not having to pay child support. I’m thinking his mom gladly would have raised his daughter for free. She was still raising PF when he was arrested. And that way he could run a round to his rodeos and women all he wanted. JMO though.

 

[MassGuy]

We know she closed on the house in May, that might have caused him to feel a loss of control over her and the relationship. When is the height of the rodeo season? Is it June? July? did he find things weren't going well and that added to his feeling that things were spiraling out of control? Was the pressure of two women in his life, the lies he told about Kelsey catching up to him? The most intriguing thing about this case is his behavior, the stoicism, the cruelty and the coldness. He plays his cards close to his chest, he plans ahead and he's got a cruel streak, imo. It may not have been anything going on with Kelsey that initiated his actions, it may have been what was going on with his other gf or his family.
The thing that strikes me as a similarity between he and CW and other men who kill their partners is that quiet go along demeanor they have. They just go along with whatever is happening, they aren't happy but no one really pays attention or notices that they're planning and plotting.

Good point, that could have been what changed.

PF was more overt in his planning than Chris Watts was, as he apparently had discussions with atleast one other person, and may have involved several people in this crime.

Only CW knew what he was going to do.

PF also seems to have been prone to anger, and wasn’t afraid to show that side of himself.

There was very little said about Watts in that regard.

They certainly have similarities, but their personalities and crimes were different.

 

[alexwood]

PF has court appearance Friday afternoon - Jan 4, 2019.

Take note Judge Linda Billings-Vela of the 4th Judicial District in Colorado four year term is set to expire January 9, 2019. In other words, we should expect to see a new judge soon.
Linda Billings-Vela - Ballotpedia

I believe she was retained in the 4th J.D. by seat election on 11/06/2018.

 

[Mom24]

I know, we have been fed a bunch of misinformation, disinformation and conflicting info about their relationship. But it's not too confusing when we think about it logically. I think we are seeing PF's lies coming out and his plot unraveling. He was apparently planning her murder for months while making her believe everything was normal with their relationship. KB's family has no motive to lie about their relationship status. KB had no motive to lie to her visiting family and deceive them with an elaborate scheme of a fake relationship. PF, however, had huge reasons to lie to KB, lie to her family and perhaps lie to a few of his friends and possibly his family too. He allegedly solicited KB's murder 3 times since Sept 2018. And then he tried to make it look like KB ran off on her own, abandoning her baby. He had to try to make it look like KB was unstable and irresponsible to set up a plausible scenario where she would disappear. Now police have evidence she is deceased and PF has been arrested. I think we can draw some strong conclusions about who may have been telling the truth and who was lying. And the police will most likely have evidence in the form of text messages showing that PF and KB's relationship was ongoing (or that KB believed it was). MOO.

I'm not sure it's misinformation we've been fed. I really believe that PF told a different story to everyone he knew. I think he told IN that the relationship was over. I think he told his family the relationship was on or off depending on how the winds were moving that day, I think he told Kelsey everything was fine, I think he told his friends whatever he needed to to make excuses for his behavior. What's happening now is that everyone he talked to is hearing what he said to others, in other words everyone else is talking to (or at) each other and the only one not talking anymore is Patrick.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm not sure how elaborate it would be. In the case of Laura Wallen the police held a press conference with her fiancee, had him speak, had her parents sit next to him and her mom held his hand to make him feel more comfortable. Her parents were in on it the whole time! I'm not sure I'd have the strength to do that. I do agree with the other reasons she played nice - to keep little KB safe and to hopefully get a chance to see her. But I do wonder if there wasn't some sort of pressure on this other person. My mom and I are so close, and it sounds like KB had a close relationship with her mom, too. She may not have known everything, but it sounds like she at least knew they may have recently broken up (based on comments from KB's aunt).

It's one thing for LE to stage a press conference in order to see what a suspect will say, but a whole other thing for the mother of a victim to go on a series of media interviews and lie about the relationship in multiple statements she made. And don't forget PF own lawyer also said the relationship was a good one. I suspect the info from KB's aunt originally came from PF after KB was missing and that is why KB's mom asked her to delete that post (and the aunt has not been back here to share more info with us as a VI). MOO.

BTW, welcome! I just noticed you are new.

 

[Seattle1]

<modsnipped quoted posts>
See Mods response to my question at link.
CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

 

[Herat]

MOO MOO MOO

Here’s a thought....maybe the “affair” was between PF and KB. MSM is reporting that PF and the IN were long-term something-or-others (they just haven’t coalesced on what yet). Perhaps KB was the “affair” resulting in a child....the outsider who had to be gotten rid of? Motive?

MOO MOO MOO

Well, IN would have to deal with the fact that PF went to Washington to help move his ‘Affair” to be near him in CO.

Let that one thought simmer on the pot. IN would be after PF, I’d think, after that stunt

 

[KrisCo16]

BTW, welcome! I just noticed you are new.

Thanks! Long time lurker I also believe that he told a lot of lies to a lot of different people, as Mom24 mentioned above. It's always so interesting (and horrifying) when the truth finally spills out.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Good point, that could have been what changed.

PF was more overt in his planning than Chris Watts was, as he apparently had discussions with atleast one other person, and may have involved several people in this crime.

Only CW knew what he was going to do.

PF also seems to have been prone to anger, and wasn’t afraid to show that side of himself.

There was very little said about Watts in that regard.

They certainly have similarities, but their personalities and crimes were different.

CW appeared more wimpy to me. Is that a good word? A real coward.
I guess when all the evidence comes out we will find out who Patrick really is.

 

[Mom24]

Well, IN would have to deal with the fact that PF went to Washington to help move his ‘Affair” to be near him in CO.

Let that one thought simmer on the pot. IN would be after PF, I’d think, after that stunt

We're assuming IN would have had an issue with someone not being exclusive. Maybe IN and PF weren't exclusive, they lived in different states, wanted their freedom and perhaps didn't want to be tied down to another person.

 

[Trudie]

I do think that we’ll have a pretty good idea as to his motive, but that could be a long time in coming.

Text messages, people close to them, the person he solicited, someone or something should be able to shed some light on this.

Often, in these cases, what we think is the motive is conjecture, IMO. We really don’t know what goes on in the mind of another. JMO. Motive doesn’t matter, as we all know.

We know she closed on the house in May, that might have caused him to feel a loss of control over her and the relationship. When is the height of the rodeo season? Is it June? July? did he find things weren't going well and that added to his feeling that things were spiraling out of control? Was the pressure of two women in his life, the lies he told about Kelsey catching up to him? The most intriguing thing about this case is his behavior, the stoicism, the cruelty and the coldness. He plays his cards close to his chest, he plans ahead and he's got a cruel streak, imo. It may not have been anything going on with Kelsey that initiated his actions, it may have been what was going on with his other gf or his family.
The thing that strikes me as a similarity between he and CW and other men who kill their partners is that quiet go along demeanor they have. They just go along with whatever is happening, they aren't happy but no one really pays attention or notices that they're planning and plotting.

Idk if the nurse is a gf or a friend.
A cowboy can always find a rodeo, they range from small events held on a ranch to huge events held in arenas.
The house purchase timeline is interesting, imo. Was he led that she was sticking around? Had he hoped she might relocate? In their private convos had she ever mentioned moving back to ID or taking a job elsewhere & he thought that would be his opp’ to get sole custody? Instead she buys a house, conveying ‘I’m here to stay’, and that got him revved up?

Speculation/moo

 

[BRRI]

MOO MOO MOO

Here’s a thought....maybe the “affair” was between PF and KB. MSM is reporting that PF and the IN were long-term something-or-others (they just haven’t coalesced on what yet). Perhaps KB was the “affair” resulting in a child....the outsider who had to be gotten rid of? Motive?

MOO MOO MOO

I’m still wondering if the nurse was the mastermind of this, mainly for this reason. I have a feeling he was with the nurse before KB.

 

[MassGuy]

CW appeared more wimpy to me. Is that a good word? A real coward.
I guess when all the evidence comes out we will find out who Patrick really is.

I’d say more insecure than “whimpy,” although any man that kills a woman is a “whimp.”

Anyone that cares that much about his appearance and how everyone perceives him, is insecure.

 

[oviedo]

I'm not sure it's misinformation we've been fed. I really believe that PF told a different story to everyone he knew. I think he told IN that the relationship was over. I think he told his family the relationship was on or off depending on how the winds were moving that day, I think he told Kelsey everything was fine, I think he told his friends whatever he needed to to make excuses for his behavior. What's happening now is that everyone he talked to is hearing what he said to others, in other words everyone else is talking to (or at) each other and the only one not talking anymore is Patrick.

I think this as well. IMO he appears to be a self-centered person with a very flawed plan (staging KB visit to relatives in Idaho). I can't wait to see what is in that warrant. JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

Gardener, Did CB see PF during her visit to CO?
Or, was he awol? If you know. Tysm

I don't know for sure but it is logical IMO she saw them together. How else would CB observe that they were loving toward each other and answer the reporter's question that she did not sense KB was afraid of PF back in Oct? To me at least it sounds like CB was recalling things she has observed first hand-- it is her own experience she is giving, not 3rd hand info. JMO.

 

[Mom24]

Good point, that could have been what changed.

PF was more overt in his planning than Chris Watts was, as he apparently had discussions with atleast one other person, and may have involved several people in this crime.

Only CW knew what he was going to do.

PF also seems to have been prone to anger, and wasn’t afraid to show that side of himself.

There was very little said about Watts in that regard.

They certainly have similarities, but their personalities and crimes were different.

It's that inner weakness that's so striking, the inability to be assertive with women. PF is the same, he's aggressive with animals, but he's not assertive. That's what was so striking to me in the videos with the dogs. The aggression. He wasn't training the dogs, he was breaking them.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO MOO MOO

Here’s a thought....maybe the “affair” was between PF and KB. MSM is reporting that PF and the IN were long-term something-or-others (they just haven’t coalesced on what yet). Perhaps KB was the “affair” resulting in a child....the outsider who had to be gotten rid of? Motive?

MOO MOO MOO

PF helped Kelsey move to CO so that doesn't sound like an affair to me. IDK, with this case you can't be sure of anything.

ETA: delete by me

 

[oviedo]

I’m still wondering if the nurse was the mastermind of this, mainly for this reason. I have a feeling he was with the nurse before KB.

MSM reports they are the same age - perhaps childhood friends, high school sweethearts? just speculation.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Well, IN would have to deal with the fact that PF went to Washington to help move his ‘Affair” to be near him in CO.

Let that one thought simmer on the pot. IN would be after PF, I’d think, after that stunt

MOO

Think Charles and Camilla....it didn’t matter who else was in their lives, they still were magnets to one another. Perhaps IN was distracted by someone or something else at that time as well....distance, circumstance, but in the end.....would they kill to be together? (I know...bad romance novel, but truth generally is stranger than fiction.).

MOO

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I thought IN was married until 2016 according to reports? PF helped Kelsey move to CO so that doesn't sound like an affair to me. IDK, with this case you can't be sure of anything.

I don’t think you’re supposed to know this.....