CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #26 *ARREST*

[Marli61]

I think PF was a player who used one woman against the other. His plan may have escalated when he found out KK was coming for Thanksgiving, especially when he may have still been seeing KB occasionally. I say he was still seeing her occasionally because her mother said they were all going out for dinner later on Thanksgiving Day. I asked myself why a pilot instructor would have bought a home in his area in May if they had been broken up since New Years Day 2018? She could have bought a home in Pueblo, close to work. Homes are less expensive there too. I think she was in love with PF and had hopes of them getting back together. If they broke up when the baby was 3 months old I wonder whose idea the family picture was? Do you agree to a family picture if you aren’t planning to be together in 3 months? Don’t forget she moved there to be near him. I bet he was lying to KK about his status with KB and her coming there would present a problem with both of them wanting his time on Thanksgiving. JMO.

I think it would have been a hardship on KB to move closer to her job. Child care is very expensive plus she may have felt way more comfortable knowing SF & PF were caring for K. That plus Pueblo is a pretty rough place. Personally I would much rather rear a child in WP.

 

[Marli61]

Unless someone else who knows talks! I hope

Yes!!

 

[Irmese]

Yes. But most people don’t have months to plan what to do with a body, nor do they have several days in which to actually carry out the disposal.

My guess that she wasn’t dumped above ground, or buried in a shallow grave.

Her car and truck being there was supposed to make it look like she left with somebody, IMO. I am thinking he was trying to lead LE to IN. That's why she had the phone, that's who she was supposed to go to Idaho with. I wonder if IN went to CO alone or with someone else? MOO.

 

[Trudie]

If you live in a community property state and are married, you have to name your spouse...or have their written permission not to.

Wow. Good info for anyone buying life ins.
In my state, items with a bennie pass outside the estate.
Unless I name my estate beneficiary to my 401k, insurance, bank accts., etc., they are not included in probate.

 

[Nudgee]

Yes. But most people don’t have months to plan what to do with a body, nor do they have several days in which to actually carry out the disposal.

My guess that she wasn’t dumped above ground, or buried in a shallow grave.

Hey @MassGuy ..... after reading this again for some reason I started singing “Silence Is Golden” by the Tremeloes..... Because I don’t think PF is ever going to say where KB is because I am beginning to think there may be no body to recover.... after Googling the lyrics...It’s chilling to me.

 

[Snow Flower]

I think it would have been a hardship on KB to move closer to her job. Child care is very expensive plus she may have felt way more comfortable knowing SF & PF were caring for K. That plus Pueblo is a pretty rough place. Personally I would much rather rear a child in WP.

If she wanted to really start over she would have moved away from him. A lot of single women who make much less then KB pay for childcare. I like WP too but it’s expensive to live there. JMO

 

[karinbean_]

Etc, etc. She was controlled by the situation. And spreading herself too thin by being a mom and working as the pilot. And then of course, this gave PF the reason to say that he was the main provider because IRL, he did nothing to help KB.

This is what infuriates me about PF - the gaslighting and blatant narcissism. There is absolutely no way, had their relationship actually worked out, that he’d be able to financially support a family; firstly while living with his mother in his 30s and secondly, with whatever income he makes.
KB was trapped as a working mother. God forbid she excel in her career and also raise a child. Instead, he’s making her out to be some absentee parent that was never around for her baby. I’m a working mom of two young boys and agonize everyday, wishing I could spend more time with them. However, like KB I’m a millennial mother and we have to support our families - my husband’s income isn’t enough to carry us. All IMO.

 

[SoVeryMe]

I do not think that PF is very wordly. I think his life has been rodeos, shoeing, dogs, cattle, feed stores, etc. I beleive that KB was "in the way" and he just wanted her gone and wanted to keep the baby. I think he lacks social skills and critical thinking of issues beyond his mothers "ranch". I do not think it was due to life insurance or anything monetary. I think his world is and has always been small. It was more likely a selfish act for selfish reasons and he could not think of another way, as most people would. It could be custodial, but not monetary. IMO.

Yes!! I completely agree with you...I love how you said his world is small....that makes sense to me. Not to generalize but I grew up on in a small farming community and most farmers are “simple” people. I don’t mean that in a bad way whatsoever. PF drove farm/work trucks, wore wranglers and let’s be real.....he’s probably been going to the same barber since he was 10 and gotten the same haircut. Nothing wrong with any of the above but I do think that speaks to his personality. I don’t think this was financially driven, I’m not sure he is even capable of coming up with some big elaborate plan to murder KB. I think he tried to get someone to do the dirty work or be the brains, when that didn’t pan out probably his plan b. went awry and his focus was to get rid of the evidence. He or someone else did a decent job of cleaning her apartment to the casual observer and I don’t think her body is easily recoverable. IMO

 

[Marli61]

If she wanted to really start over she would have moved away from him. A lot of single women who make much less then KB pay for childcare. I like WP too but it’s expensive to live there. JMO

I wasn't implying she wanted to get away or start over. Imo whatever state her relationship was in with PF she may have felt it more important to stay near him & his mother because it was best for the baby. Sometimes one cannot put a price in piece if mind & safety. (Man I had a hard time writing that last sentence!)

 

[Jupiter05]

I think PF was a player who used one woman against the other. His plan may have escalated when he found out KK was coming for Thanksgiving, especially when he may have still been seeing KB occasionally. I say he was still seeing her occasionally because her mother said they were all going out for dinner later on Thanksgiving Day. I asked myself why a pilot instructor would have bought a home in his area in May if they had been broken up since New Years Day 2018? She could have bought a home in Pueblo, close to work. Homes are less expensive there too. I think she was in love with PF and had hopes of them getting back together. If they broke up when the baby was 3 months old I wonder whose idea the family picture was? Do you agree to a family picture if you aren’t planning to be together in 3 months? Don’t forget she moved there to be near him. I bet he was lying to KK about his status with KB and her coming there would present a problem with both of them wanting his time on Thanksgiving. JMO.

He could be or had been a player, but we don't know for a fact that KK and PF were romantically and hotly involved. We are guessing. They could have been at one time, but I don't see PF wanting to take on a woman with someone elses children. I think they may have been good buddies and perhaps friends with benefits. I think that if KK had any deeper involvement with KB's death, that she would be arrested by now. I think she knows a little and did a little unwittingly, like doing something with or having knowledge of the phone mystery. I could be way off here, but that is my take thus far. Two cents. IMO.

 

[Jethro4WS]

It helps the plaintiff because a judge/jury can consider the invoking of the Fifth in a civil case whether it be about child custody or life insurance proceeds. PF is going to respond or he isn't but either way, he loses.

JMO

But how would that affect whether PF's mother or sister could have custody as both have motioned to intervene? It doesn't. Life insurance is something that would be handled out of probate and wouldn't involve PF to begin with.

ETA: If he has a life insurance policy on KB then the insurance company isn't just going to pay out. They do their own investigations before they would pay anything out.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I think it just means there are witnesses named in the affidavit (likely the solicitees, etc.) who are NOT to be contacted by PF while he is in jail. There are also likely various family members listed in it, and he is permitted to speak to them.

IMO

Thank you.
That's what I thought. Very interesting.

 

[Ccging]

She's such a tiny little thing next to her parents. This is from the Daily Mail Article I placed in my above post.

This photo of KB hit hard, purely IMO but she appears so young and so innocent. It’s infuriating that someone, most likely PF, took that away.

 

[oviedo]

But how would that affect whether PF's mother or sister could have custody as both have motioned to intervene? It doesn't. Life insurance is something that would be handled out of probate and wouldn't involve PF to begin with.

ETA: If he has a life insurance policy on KB then the insurance company isn't just going to pay out. They do their own investigations before they would pay anything out.

I have always thought this was about possession of the baby by everyone including those who have motioned to intervene - it’s a move that reinforces this for me. Imo it stems back to PF keeping the baby from CB

 

[Beamer15]

I think it would have been a hardship on KB to move closer to her job. Child care is very expensive plus she may have felt way more comfortable knowing SF & PF were caring for K. That plus Pueblo is a pretty rough place. Personally I would much rather rear a child in WP.

My daughter recently moved to Pueblo, I was there in November, I thought is was an adorable little city, with tons of character. The child care I agree w but your opinion of Pueblo, I do not

 

[Lhughessk]

That’s the confusing thing. What exactly PF planned to make this look like, and how and if his plan changed along the way.

The cell phone activity makes sense if he was trying to create a scenario in which Kelsey left on some sort of a road trip.

But it makes no sense if she didn’t have the means to get there.

Chris Watts probably planned to make it look like Shanann left on her own, but his plan was thwarted when his time was cut short by SW’s friend.

He didn’t have a chance to dump her belongings and vehicle.

PF had over a week to make this look the way he wanted it to look, and the way he made it look doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Because of the car.

So one of three things could have occurred:

We are wrong about how he planned to make this look.

Something inhibited him from dumping her car.

He’s a dumbass.

I’m going with the latter.

We certainly could be wrong about how he wanted to make this look. I think there are still crucial pieces of the puzzle that we just don’t know yet. But another possibility with the car situation is that maybe her mother called in that welfare check sooner than he expected. But I don’t know, that was Sunday that they did the welfare. So you would think that he wouldn’t of waited that long.

Another possibility is that her keys were in her purse and they disposed of the purse without thinking about the fact that the keys were in it. Maybe they burned the purse and the key was too destroyed to use. Or maybe they threw the purse off of a bridge and it wasn’t possible to retrieve.

 

[Jupiter05]

If she wanted to really start over she would have moved away from him. A lot of single women who make much less then KB pay for childcare. I like WP too but it’s expensive to live there. JMO

I think it is really easy for us to see through our own lenses. I think KB was very naive, maybe sheltered. Wanted to keep the baby near her father and perhaps she thought everything would work out with them. Rose colored glasses. I think she was a good girl who saw the best in everything and did not see warning signs. Maybe her view of their relationship was very different from PF's.

 

[Snow Flower]

My daughter recently moved to Pueblo, I was there in November, I thought is was an adorable little city, with tons of character. The child care I agree w but your opinion of Pueblo, I do not

I live in Taos, not too far from Pueblo. I like it there too. Taos, like WP, is very expensive. We have been considering moving there.

 

[cluciano63]

We certainly could be wrong about how he wanted to make this look. I think there are still crucial pieces of the puzzle that we just don’t know yet. But another possibility with the car situation is that maybe her mother called in that welfare check sooner than he expected. But I don’t know, that was Sunday that they did the welfare. So you would think that he wouldn’t of waited that long.

Another possibility is that her keys were in her purse and they disposed of the purse without thinking about the fact that the keys were in it. Maybe they burned the purse and the key was too destroyed to use. Or maybe they threw the purse off of a bridge and it wasn’t possible to retrieve.

The welfare check was Dec 2nd...he had plenty of time, but much more than he could have guessed.

 

[sun16]

Do you think PF would tell LE where the body is to avoid the death penalty and the type of existence behind bars that it brings? Or do you think from what we know so far that he just doesn’t care and will say nothing, no matter what? Yes, I know the death penalty would likely never be used in CO.

If PF hired someone to kill and/or dispose of KB, how could he be so sure that person wouldn’t eventually talk? Would PF want to know where she was put? Or might he not know that, if someone else disposed of her?