CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[Seattle1]

I have been trying to find information on the Berreth LLC. No luck with SOS in Colorado, Washington, or Idaho. My thinking is this could be a vehicle used by the Berreth Family to protect their holdings and other assets. The family were successful hay ranchers in Washington and sold the Ranch. By using an LLC and placing all children in it, funds from the sale could be used to purchase other property. The baby could have been added to the LLC and is already an owner of the WP property without will or probate. Just one more motive for PF to claim full custody. He wanted in on the family.

Couple of other routes to trace down the LLC but I am to cold from being out in a ground blizzard. Hope it made sense.

I believe the LLC was identified about 30+ threads ago --if not removed for violating TOS (sleuthing family). Good thing about LLC's is that they definitely protect the privacy of the LLC members and/or beneficiaries!

 

[Snowsnake]

We know KB was savvy enough to immediately transfer her condo into a Washington State LLC within weeks of purchase, there's no reason to believe that KB did not have a will, and probably a trust too-- especially as a single mother.

Do you think the LLC purchased the property? This is my assumption and little Kaylee had been placed as a share holder in the family LLC. This would be a smart way to handle this transaction.

 

[Snowsnake]

I believe the LLC was identified about 30+ threads ago --if not removed for violating TOS (sleuthing family). Good thing about LLC's is that they definitely protect the privacy of the LLC members and/or beneficiaries!

I was unaware of the removable. Not trying to sleuth the family but establish PF motive for wanting full custody. It is not to take care of a baby. Baby Kaylee may have interest in the Berreth LLC.

 

[BUF]

I believe I read the judge will decide if bail can be posted also and set the amount.

Edit add: if bail is allowed he’ll set the amount. I don’t see this happening though JMO

I don't believe bail is approached until his arraignment.
IMO, no way he is getting bail.

 

[jewelsmac]

Exactly. I think CB found a way to control the narrative, and steal PF’s thunder. See we have an entire weekend to roll our eyes at how pathetic and little a man he is and when he rolls into court and tries to bring Kelsey down, CB has already taken the sting out.

I wish I could like this twice.
Over and over in recent days KB’s family has been subjected to folks taking about “hard working ..nice guy” PF and “scared” KK....meanwhile their girl is laying out there somewhere.
It was time to put the focus back on what Kelsey endured, not PF and KK

 

[Kapua]

Kelsey Berreth's parents' suit claims Patrick Frazee killed fiancee over custody of daughter | Daily Mail Online

Nothing new really.

Oh. You meant 'nothing new in this DM article". Duh. My bad. LOL.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Oh. You meant 'nothing new in this DM article". LOL.

Right. I was pretty sure everyone had read all the previous articles. The DM contained nothing new.

 

[Seattle1]

A Colorado designated beneficiary must be unmarried. The law is intended to give some of the rights of marriage to unmarried persons, ie long term gay couples who could not legally marry at the time.

Same-Sex Marriage Historic Developments

(In 2006, CO voters passed Amendment 43 defining marriage as between a man and a woman. Federal law has since overturned these prohibitive laws. More history at link.)

"...In 2009, Colorado enacted HB 1260, the Colorado Designated Beneficiary Act, codified at C.R.S. 15-22-101,et seq. It was a first, baby step to give a few of the rights of marriage to unmarried couples, including same-sex couples, but fell far short of the full protections of marriage.

In essence, the law provided for a super-charged power of attorney, providing that a couple could enter into a Designated Beneficiary Agreement, and under C.R.S. 15-22-105 have some basic rights: ..."

CB and DB do not qualify as CO designated beneficiaries of KB.

"Designated beneficiary" as provided for under the Colorado Statute of who can bring a wrongful death lawsuit should not be confused with the 2009 Designated Beneficiary Agreement Act referenced.

Principal legal instruments (Will, Trust, LLC, Power of Attorney, etc,) have long existed before any agreement to protect same sex marriages, and can also supersede the 2009, limited, "designated beneficiary agreement."

 

[Dave F.]

Yes, that or a trust instrument, will, etc.

Not to be confused with the "2009 Colorado Designated Beneficiary Agreement Act" with limited benefits (first drafted to protect same sex unions). A Berreth LLC, Trust, etc. are principal types of legal instruments that can supersede a "Colorado Beneficiary Agreement." [C.R.S. 15-22-105]

Copy @SandyQLS , @Dave F.

7L Investments, Ltd, a Washington corporation, can exercise the absolute first lienholder right of repossession on the condo at any time. They don't need a bunch of mumbo jumbo to back it up. IMO

 

[Seattle1]

Do you think the LLC purchased the property? This is my assumption and little Kaylee had been placed as a share holder in the family LLC. This would be a smart way to handle this transaction.

I recall KB purchased the property as an Individual (i.e., single woman), and transferred or funded title to the LLC.

It was a smart move for any party wishing to avoid probate and/or asset protection. We also have to remember that KB was a flight instructor, and the very nature of her work opened and/or exposed her to serious legal ramifications. MOO

 

[makayla]

Wow, I was a bit behind so it was good to hear about the wrongful death suit, the conversations between PF and CB, and the mention of a gun and keys ... thanks to all who posted all these snippets. It makes PF sound even more evil than I originally imagined. How dare he try to throw blame on poor Kelsey. Grrrrr..... I’m praying PF and KK get what they deserve!

How sweet was that picture awhile ago of little K with her grandma at Doss Aviation ... that really warmed my heart.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Not sure if posted

 

[Seattle1]

7L Investments, Ltd, a Washington corporation, can exercise the absolute first lienholder right of repossession on the condo at any time. They don't need a bunch of mumbo jumbo to back it up. IMO

Dave, the topic is legal standing to file wrongful death lawsuit in Colorado.

Lienholder of the mortgage on condo or repossession nothing to do here.

 

[Seattle1]

I was unaware of the removable. Not trying to sleuth the family but establish PF motive for wanting full custody. It is not to take care of a baby. Baby Kaylee may have interest in the Berreth LLC.

I believe we can all agree PF did not want to share anything -- including baby K and/or her care!

Baby K would still be a minor, and any of her interests under a Trust or LLC subject to guardianship or representative.

And absolutely, financial opportunity could be another motive for PF to murder KB.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

More on Colorado wrongful death:

Colorado Wrongful Death Lawyers | Bachus & Schanker Attorneys

"Who Can Bring A Wrongful Death Claim?
Colorado’s wrongful death law is found in the Colorado Revised Statues (C.R.S. 13-21-201 et.seq.) These laws specifically identify which family members are eligible to bring a wrongful death claim in Colorado and provide time limits for bringing these claims. In Colorado, the surviving spouse has the exclusive standing to bring a claim within the first year after the death, and both the surviving spouse and children have standing to bring a claim thereafter. If there is no spouse, then the children may bring a claim; if there is no spouse and no children, then and only then may the parents of the deceased bring a claim. In wrongful death cases in Colorado, there is a two year statute of limitation, meaning that a claim must be brought within two years of the death."

The Statute of Limitations for a Wrongful De - Guides - Avvo

"Who Can Bring a Claim of Wrongful Death

Colorado’s laws specify that the surviving spouse and the children of the victim can bring a wrongful death claim. The parents of the deceased person can file for a claim only if the deceased doesn’t have a spouse or children.

The spouse is entitled to bring the suit in the first year after death, and the spouse may provide written notice allowing the deceased's heirs to file the claim, too. If there is no spouse, then the heirs may bring the suit. In the second year, the spouse and/or heirs may bring the suit."

*

Every source says the same thing. As parents of the unmarried deceased person who left a minor child (heir), they have no standing to make a wrongful death claim on their own behalf.

The above are dated five years ago. I believe Gitana gave the latest it had an amendment a couple of years ago?. Or perhaps it was Rio77

 

[Kapua]

No wonder PF has kept silent since his arrest, he was a bureau of information in his calls to CB.

Bureau of false information, IMHO.

 

[NoeticSoul]

The above are dated five years ago. I believe Gitana gave the latest it had an amendment a couple of years ago?. Or perhaps it was Rio77

It was @riolove77 but I can't find it. :/ Still looking, it was very early this morning.

 

[Mom24]

No wonder PF has kept silent since his arrest, he was a bureau of information in his calls to CB.

That and the fact that he told so many people different stories. They all would have found out that he lied to them

 

[tmar]

Hi All, long-time follower, first-time poster... I was close to replying a few times, but knew I would get sucked in further if I did... Anyhow, today is the day... I am a Psych NP, with passion for suicide prevention, and researched the above mentioned case. I don't know any additional info other than what's in the media, but do want to share that she unfortunately had a lot of VERY significant suicide risk factors including the presence of a mood disorder (and anxiety, and insomnia), likely being off her mood stabilizer, a very significant family history of suicide, and likely alcohol in her system. This can be the perfect storm... Alcohol disinhibits and often is the one factor that makes the difference between a person making it through a suicidal crisis without acting on it or not. In other words, having alcohol in the system is like taking the foot off the break so thoughts turn into deeds. An impulsive moment is all that it takes unfortunately and being off medications and with alcohol..... OK, I could go on an on an on. What I read about this case, leads me to think it was a suicide as well and justice was done, but like I said, I may not be aware of information others are.

Anyhow, I feel this case is completely different and both PF and KK look very very very guilty and I can't wait for justice for Kelsey! Kelsey and her family have been on my mind every single day!!!

I hope I didn't rerail the discussion. If I did, please delete.

Welcome, with a great first post.
Love the info you have provided.
Hope you are able to add notes, on the main characters in this case.

 

[NoSI]

Thank you so much for the warm welcome! Yup, I think I am gonna be posting…

The big why in cases such as this…. It has so very much preoccupied me since the CW case. I just finished a very good book titled “The Anatomy of Evil” by Dr. Michael Stone. I highly recommend it. A couple things I highlighted that I thought you might find interesting:

On Personality:

• Personality all by itself, with no “help” from mental illness, drug abuse, head injury etc., can account for the tendency to commit crimes of exceeding violence.
  
• A useful equation in thinking about personality is that which we inherit accounts for about half of our personality; environment makes up the other half.
  
• No surprise, narcissism is common to almost all persons who commit serious crimes.
  
• The three personality disorders with a close relationship to crime are antisocial, psychopathic, and sadistic. Schizoid is also seen.
  
• If we wanted to narrow our focus to single out the personality configuration that is connected with particular closeness to our concept of evil, it would be at the place where psychopathy, sadistic personality, and schizoid/autistic-spectrum disorders all come together.

Some info that may be applicable to case:

• Describing category of “Killers (not totally psychopathic) of people “in the way”” – Not impulsive in nature. We are dealing instead with violent acts that were carried out in a cold and methodical way from the beginning – followed by equally methodical ways of trying to escape justice. Factor-I traits (glibness and/or superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning or manipulativeness, lack of remorse or guilt, shallow affect, callousness and lack of empathy/compassion, and failure to accept responsibility for one’s actions) are evident, but usually less rage and intemperate behavior. Examples include Mins and Einhorn who killed because the women they had once loved rejected them. Neither saw any solution to his loss and wounded pride than to murder the women who had hurt them. That each of these men had driven the women away because of abusiveness was clear to everyone else; they remained steadfastly blind to the obvious and thus felt “justified” in exacting revenge. Now, I do think he can be described as methodical as he definetely put thought into it...
  
• Impulsive wife murders account for only 1 case in 9.
  
• Dr. Stone states “but of all the things I learned from looking at the histories of wife murderers, the most remarkable includes: the men (that preplanned the murder) hardly ever confessed, even when convicted… Confession was common in the impulsive husbands”.

A lot of you predict that PF will not admit to what he has done to Kelsey and I agree. I have a hard time seeing him as charming, but I am sure that he does have that capacity, otherwise a smart, good, and beautiful girl, such as Kelsey, would have never fallen for him. She deserved SO much better! It breaks my heart.

If not ok to post things like this, just delete and let me know. I need to read up on rules tonight.