CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[Dave F.]

bbm
Opinion | Incinerator can burn 150 pounds of carcass in an hour, Babcock murder trial told: DiManno
Burning with an incinerator for example:
S. had asked of P., in their exchange: "How long to burn 150 pounds of carcass?"
Roughly an hour, P. responded; a "complete burn" more like three hours. "Depends what you have in there."
At a temperature of at least 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit for the main burner, or chamber; 1,400 for the afterburner attached to the top, which eliminates smoke and emissions.

What, if PF first used an animal incinerator of a friend, who has also cattle. What, if he burned only remaining things at home in a trough, visible to his mum and in the presence of KKL?
KKL would have told then half of the truth to investigators perhaps.

No one would own an animal incinerator for him to borrow. They aren't legal in Colorado. IMO

 

[Dave F.]

the situation with SF at the preliminary hearing still puzzles me. as far as i understand the 5th it allows a defendant to remain silent. i get that. but witnesses are different. the 5th allows them to refuse to answer a question due to possible self-incrimination. this was the 1st time i'm aware of that a witness was allowed to refuse to take the stand citing the 5th. refusing to take the stand is contempt and the 5th does not allow a free pass for a witness in contempt. IMO. so, as i see it, Mays was correct, SF should of had to take the stand and answer any questions that in no way could have incriminated her. like the question , "when did PF get to the house on 11/22?" how in heck is an answer to that in any way going to incriminate SF? so the judge really cut SF some slack, imo. hope the trial judge is a bit different. MOO.

It is not normal to call incidental witnesses like that to testify in an "Evidence is Great" hearing in Colorado. The judge correctly told Prosecutor May that issue was for another day in court.
My theory is that May had some inside information that SF had come to realize the depravity of her son's actions. Often times, when the parent or sibling is the last to realize, they will break down on the stand and tell everything they saw, and everything they have figured out. I think her attorney was wise to be there to prevent her from incriminating herself. There will be plenty of opportunity for May to ask her "Did you see a fire.....yes or no?" IMO

 

[ab01]

It is not normal to call incidental witnesses like that to testify in an "Evidence is Great" hearing in Colorado. The judge correctly told Prosecutor May that issue was for another day in court.
My theory is that May had some inside information that SF had come to realize the depravity of her son's actions. Often times, when the parent or sibling is the last to realize, they will break down on the stand and tell everything they saw, and everything they have figured out. I think her attorney was wise to be there to prevent her from incriminating herself. There will be plenty of opportunity for May to ask her "Did you see a fire.....yes or no?" IMO

On top of that I think the prosecution wanted to give the defense something to think about by just calling on her. Ie we know she knows things, so keep that in mind for trial so to speak. Little game of cat and mouse imo

 

[enelram]

When KK said she had a headache and needed a nap after
watching her competition be burned in an animal trough,
where did she take that nap? did she go into SF's home and
lie down? Did she and SF and PF discuss what they were burning outside?
It could be that SF did more than 'look' outside and see the fire.
this could have been an illuminating discussion on the joys
of the bonfire.

 

[Yellow Rose]

When KK said she had a headache and needed a nap after
watching her competition be burned in an animal trough,
where did she take that nap? did she go into SF's home and
lie down? Did she and SF and PF discuss what they were burning outside?
It could be that SF did more than 'look' outside and see the fire.
this could have been an illuminating discussion on the joys
of the bonfire.

I'm not sure that's information we will ever know! But yes, would be very interesting for sure!

 

[PommyMommy]

Did they (Police) take her (KK) to the Ranch? Didn't know that....

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
Slater said Lee took investigators to Frazee’s property, where she showed investigators where she believes the “burn area” was.

 

[pcrum12]

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
Slater said Lee took investigators to Frazee’s property, where she showed investigators where she believes the “burn area” was.

Thank you

 

[ilovechili]

actually , now that you mention it, at some point, she was driving a car with expired tags, with two guns... esp. crazy

The fact the expired tags and the guns even came up seems quite odd to me. Since in some ways they seem to have nothing much to do with what allegedly actually happened.

Is there anyone here who is LE because isn't that like LE 101 to look at tags and expiration dates? Then you have the fact that we have a car with one state's plates that was in three different states right? ID, UT and CO? Anyone have any clue what the weather was either?Was she pulled over for expired tags? Think about it, it is a holiday weekend, that is the time to watch out for State Troopers, LE, etc. when traveling no? If she was pulled over, does it help corroborate a timeline if so? Will this maybe come up later?

The guns, that is another head scratcher... Some ideas but won't go into them at the moment, haven't refined them yet...

Been reading several pages today. Both of these two are just as guilty as the other. And evil. Just my opinion and supporting others that feel the same. Her level of involvement was shocking and still is. I expected her to be more involved than just KB's phone (as the hints were up to preliminary) but never expected what all came out. And I believe only parts of what has come out of either mouth, his or hers. They are liars. She had no fear of him. If he were her ex living in the same home as her that might be understandable but give me a break, she drove to HIM/PF, not something I would do if scared. Many times. She stalked poor Kelsey. She was jealous and that is the nicest word I can use at this time. He lied to both KB and KK I have no doubt. To everyone in his life I would bet. KK lied to her husband. Etc. We know all of this. KK and PF lied to LE, we know this.

Diabolical nutcases imho.

Evil personified. Both of them. She lied when first confronted, it is not like she willingly came forward. Then they caught her in her lies. Then she lawyered up and got herself a deal.

When I look at the friends of hers, etc., I truly cannot understand what is in the pizza in those states, attempt at lightness . No offense to the decent ones that live there intended, just need to vent. It is just that so very many people could have intervened for the sake of KB.

KK's own children are victims but they are because of her. They have a notorious mother to put it nicely.

All just my own speculation and opinion.

 

[NWLady]

It really bothers me we have so much lacking surveillance camera proof of those that went in and out over the few days.

I think there is a big possibility that LE/investigators have more surveillance camera footage/pictures/etc that will be brought forward at trial. Per KK's mouth, she parked at community center and walked it appears per Google approximately 0.2 miles each way and may have passed some surveillance cameras along the way, therefore possibly verifying what time she was headed to KB's for cleanup and what time she left afterwards.

I still leave open the idea that she participated to a bigger degree than what she has admitted to. She sure seems to know a whole lotttttt about the killing of KB which I find it somewhat hard to believe that PF told her every single detail. But I also think about the possibility (although it's probably rather getting my hopes up than not) that maybe KK has a recorded confession and/or there is a text message from him or a voicemail from him, something of him saying he did it. Yeah, I know, probably wishful thinking. Overall, I still would like to believe there is a lot more information of course that will come out at trial and hopefully at least one smoking gun to prove PF was the killer and solely the only killer (because at this time I am not totally convinced that that is what took place).

All of this is JMO, MOO....

 

[girlhasnoname]

Oh yes me too. They must be crapping themselves waiting for that warrant knock.

Haa! Now that's a visual to start the day. Can we add the rest of the cast of characters to the crapping themselves, warrant knock scenario as well? I know this may seem petty, but I'd like to see all of the 'knowers doing nothing' folks squirm a little bit too.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The funny thing is many seem so quick to jump on the prosecutors in this case.

All we know is the limited amount of information the The State chose to disclose in a preliminary hearing. I believe they have much more evidence and it will all be laid out at trial. But trying to determine weather there is reasonable doubt to find PF not guilty based solely on the information we have can't be done in a rational manner. The State proved that what they showed was enough to proceed with the case, and thats all they needed to do IMO.

THIS^^^

 

[girlhasnoname]

well, the story i read is auntie was along because she was interested in a trailer and/or a horse and she understood that PF was the main contact and that KB was PF's lady so to stop and schmooze the lady [KB] a bit might be an understandable tactic to auntie. if any of that was actually the reason. MOO.

Thanks, that's a possible scenario, but not probable to me. I hadn't read that, but I've been hit and miss lately on the threads lately.
MOO

 

[NWLady]

I'd venture to say that a lot of us here have probably served on a jury at least once in our lifetime, if not more. And I put myself in the place of the jury 'at this time with the only information we learned from the hearing on February 19th.' I myself would not be able to make up my mind whether it is PF said KK did this or that, or rather KK said PF did this or that. Basically, what I am trying to say is, I am not 100% convinced at this time that she didn't participate in the actual murder of KB.

And I do realize that a lot more evidence, etc will be brought forward and exposed at trial which could then convince me 100% that he did it solely or KK helped. I am just saying at this point in time, I am not quite ready to believe that 100% yet.

The other thing that bothers me is the manner in which it appears that KB was murdered....with a baseball bat? If PF solely did this, what would cause him to use a baseball bat? That much rage is about the only thing I can come up with? Because his size verus KB's size, it definitely could have been accomplished in lot easier ways. JMO

 

[Julia966]

It is funny that she drove 1,600 miles in a car with expired plates and wasn't stopped. With my luck, here in New York, I wouldn't make it 100 miles.

 

[ilovechili]

I am in the camp that thinks KK is an equal to PF in the danger department. Just because she backed out of killing this time (if you are one to believe what she says), does not mean she isn’t capable of killing in the future or that she hasn’t done so in the past. I do believe she and PF were a lethal combination. Ok so maybe she was in Idaho the day KB was killed. We will have to wait for trial to see if LE is right about everything. But she definitely has the heart of a murderer. This is a sick, twisted woman who should not be on the streets. There is just no way a normal human being could go clean up after a murderer and then go celebrate with friends in Vegas. Since the DA is only prosecuting one person, yes I am glad it is PF. But come on....

Now if you wanna call me sexist, please feel free.

I am in the same camp as you as well. Just because we can be in different camps sure the hec* I hope does not mean that all opinions and thoughts are not valued. I do not care if either of these nutjobs are male or female. We were stunned by her involvement and it rose to a level of making one wonder if it was only after the fact and more. Most of us had already decided he had done something terrible to KB. She was more of a surprise, the extent and the detail we received were as well. I think people are still reeling, I feel I am. I have never seen a preliminary like it (and we did not even see it, it was tweeted ).

Sadly though, his best defense is probably going to be attempted with a he said/she said. That worries me. And both seem just as guilty to me. At this point anyhow.

Head to Sonic? Come on. She has no more regard for life other than hers than he does ...

jmho.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thanks, that's a possible scenario, but not probable to me. I hadn't read that, but I've been hit and miss lately on the threads lately.
MOO

Note: The Nov. 23 date was an error and later corrected to Sept. 23

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Now talking about her Nov. 23 visit. Krystal told Slater that her aunt was looking for a particular horse trailer. Krystal reached out to Frazee. She rented a car to drive, stopped for a night in Greeley. Then drove to Woodland Park area. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Frazee suggested Kenney taint a caramel macchiato from Starbucks with ambien or other narcotics to kill Kelsey Berreth. Kenney said she carried some of those drugs as a nurse. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Kenney eventually went to the Starbucks at Walmart and drove over to Kelsey Berreth’s townhome with Kenney’s aunt (Kristi) still in the car. Kenney told Slater she didn’t put anything in the coffee. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Slater: Kenney parked in the alley. Kristi stayed in the car & couldn’t see where she went. Kenney knocked on the door. Kelsey opened the door slightly. Krystal lied about her identity, said she was a neighbor & wanted to thank her for helping find her dogs. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Kelsey took the coffee, Slater said. Kenney tried building a rapport with Kelsey at Frazee’s direction, suggesting a play date in the future. Kenney gave Krystal a number for a burner phone she bought, again at Frazee’s direction. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing
CBI Agent Slater retakes the stand. The horse trailer-Starbucks incident was Sept. 23 (it was misheard earlier that it was Nov.). Slater says Frazee was angry but told Kenney she had another chance on Oct. 15.

 

[makayla]

It really bothers me we have so much lacking surveillance camera proof of those that went in and out over the few days.

I’m thinking and hoping LE has more than what we’ve heard about so far. I don’t believe they’re going to show all their cards until the trial. They’ve shown enough to keep PF locked up for now, and I’m looking forward to seeing and hearing everything when the trial actually starts - I only wish that could happen sooner!

 

[ilovechili]

It is funny that she drove 1,600 miles in a car with expired plates and wasn't stopped. With my luck, here in New York, I wouldn't make it 100 miles.

Many, many, many years ago, I pulled over into a gas station. Noted an LE car there. I had expired tags (was a pretty broke time in life, it is not my habit by any means). I had a split second where I thought about it and thought nah, I am only going to be a second or two, nothing to worry about. I parked a few spots away and went in. Saw him in uniform/passed him. Purchased my item. The minute my car left that lot I was pulled over.

My point is that this officer was making a purchase, I do not think he was there looking for such things (insofar as I know anyhow) but is trained to note them.

The expired tags through three states is very odd to me and over a holiday time of travel. So yes, I agree. Expired tags on both ways of the trip so make it six states in a way. And in a tight timeframe in both directions have we decided that?

 

[BingoBongo]

All the data we currently have point to KK being a co-conspirator. There is good reason why the driver of a get-away car is held to the same level of accountability as a bank robber.

JMO

But, it doesn't point to her being the murderer.

 

[enelram]

I'd like to hear more about this particular horse trailer that KK's
aunt was looking for. IMO, PF's trailer looked like a plain, old
beat up 2 horse straight load trailer. Nothing special.
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Now talking about her Nov. 23 visit. Krystal told Slater that her aunt was looking for a particular horse trailer. Krystal reached out to Frazee. She rented a car to drive, stopped for a night in Greeley. Then drove to Woodland Park area. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee