CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[marchioness96]

Me neither!

By the way, how did she walk from where she parked to Kelsey’s house, with all that stuff, without being noticed?

Yes!! Thank you; I thought I must be dense or have missed something. This has baffled me too.

It doesn't look to be a long distance, but I'm pretty sure I'd notice someone walking along weighed down by trash bags, a container of bleach, some other bag or tote containing her cleaning outfit....

Maybe it's just me. I can't remember what I've read from one thread to the next! My head has been spinning since the prelim.

 

[Gardenista]

Me neither!

By the way, how did she walk from where she parked to Kelsey’s house, with all that stuff, without being noticed?

From the timeline:

When she was done, she put the trash bags out front, got her car and then picked up the trash before going to Sonic.

 

[Elley Mae]

It is funny that she drove 1,600 miles in a car with expired plates and wasn't stopped. With my luck, here in New York, I wouldn't make it 100 miles.

Where I live most LE cars have tag readers, i’m thinking that in rural area’s that most LE cars don’t.

Expense.

 

[enelram]

Isn’t there a retaining wall opposite KB’s front door? What if the camera only picks up what is visible of PF above the retaining wall? Ie. He could have been pulling a tote on rollers that was not visible to the camera?

Possibly or what time did it get dark that day?

wanted to ask if we are sure that the neighbor unit is to the left and not the 289 unit to the right? or the house across the street directly in back of KB condo? the 289 unit would not specifically show the front door but might catch the sidewalk leading to the front door and so considered to be "at front door" the house behind has a clear shot but would need a good lens for the distance i guess. ok, just crossed my mind. MOO.

This may not help at all or maybe not valid.
When, very early in the investigation, while KB was just missing,
the fb missing site said "a man at the end of the cul-de-sac- has a
video camera aimed at her home, 24/7 and has shots of all cars and people who came to her condo". The way his home was described was to the right-if you're facing KB's condo, end of cul-de-sac-

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Thanks, that's a possible scenario, but not probable to me. I hadn't read that, but I've been hit and miss lately on the threads lately.
MOO

So which is it, She went to talk to Kelsey about Pf's horse,or thank Kelsey for finding a lost dog?
Hmmmmmmm

 

[ilovechili]

He had to clean himself up. Likely shower and change into clothes he already had there. Likely went through Kelsey's stuff.
He was also at her computer. He got into her Facebook account and changed the password. There must be his DNA and some blood evidence on the keyboard.

But why change her FB password? Surely KKL didn't know it. Who else was going to be able to know it was changed?

Just a thought but maybe he did not know it but wanted to access her account. So you change the password by having a code sent to your phone or email, etc. to be able to do so? To see what she had been saying to anyone, to send fake messages himself pretending to be her, or any realm of possibilities like those. Not up on everything so maybe this does not fit and he had another reason, I may have missed the details.

ETA: I meant to her phone for instance which he now had in his possession.

 

[Kapua]

There were NOT three enighbors standing outside KB's residence watching them come and go, so let's say that never happened.

The prosecution called three witnesses.......SF, Commander Chris Adams of the WPPD, and Invesitigator Greg Slater of the CBI. They wanted to ask SF....... ONE QUESTION ABOUT ONE INCIDENT. Commander Adams was on the stand for approximately two hours and Investigator Slater for five hours. I'm sure you will call it whatever you like, but I'm sticking with "incidental witness" because there's no getting around it. She witnessed a single incident, that they wanted to ask her about.
Any citizen of the United States, or any legal immigrant, has an absolute right under the 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution to not answer any question that will incriminate themselves. A person can be ordered to take a seat in the witness box, and must answer every questions asked; but may answer each and every one by "taking the fifth". The judge can order her to answer, but he CANNOT, under any law in the land, force her to say anything that she feels is incriminating to herself. The prosecutor was arguing that the judge should order her to take the witness box. In the "Evidence is Great" hearing in Colorado, that is very ususual. Usually it's just LE that are called. The Judge said that hearing was not the proper time and place to do that, and that he would rule on whether she had to take the witness box at a later date.
Having spewed all of that, we all can see the prosecutor was hoping to get her on the stand, and "open the proverbial can of worms". The judge wouldn't allow it in that hearing.
Done deal. IMO

They'll call her @ the actual trial. We'll see what happens then. MOO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Regarding the Timeline.....

I haven’t seen the actual Idaho court record for KK and CL’s divorce.
In the arrest affidavit CL said they were divorced in the summer of 2018. However, others are saying court records state they were divorced on June 27, 2016.

Was their divorce filed on June 27, 2016 and final in 2018?

Does anybody know?
@PommyMommy @Esma

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I personally think both knew.


Interesting thoughts. Have wondered about some of the same myself but not all.

However, on this one, if she was hoping to be picked up, then why not just confess when confronted with her lies? If she would have been pulled over and confessed say in another town, why not just go to a PD in another town if she did not trust the one. Heck she could have went and confessed to Las Vegas PD and begged for protection before going home. This woman's actions do not fit someone scared and doing the right thing. The trip to Vegas, Sonic, etc. The burning of all of these phones, Kelsey's, the burner phone, etc., pretty convenient they are gone.

I find Colorado Springs odd too in some of this. I also find it odd that some reports say he and his bro are estranged and yet he talked to him prior to talking to police was it? I do not know the area though so could there have been a logistical reason for that department?

I wonder myself about some of your points and not so sure on others. However, all are food for thought...

I so far see her as guilty as he is but reserve the right to change my opinion as we learn more. And certainly respect your opinion and everyone else's. For some reason, I keep feeling like I am watching an R rated version of "Dallas" even though it took place in the wrong state... jmo.

Count Me In as number three who thinks that the FBI might have been looking at him and his brother and specifically did that interview where his brother works, so he would find out about it.

When I learned from that YouTube channel that a lot of people don't like to watch, that in her interview with him the neighbor said that the FBI came to her property to surveil for a week or more prior to 21st, ( her property is higher ground and overlooks his she said) I was thinking perhaps they had a stingray ( and or A real time live wire tap) near there to capture any Communications when she was brought in and up to the time of his arrest.

With them surveilling, they could have been staged and that is how they were there so quickly the morning that he was arrested. And that they saw them getting ready to leave from the neighbor's property. They were at the gate when they were leaving.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Agreed, they are both people. Both monsters. You are right, men and women are equally capable of that kind of evil.

I do believe that her relationship with him played a different role than had he solicited a friend to help him though.
In my opinion she didn’t report him to Police because she wanted to keep him for herself. More than being a decent human being, more than doing the right thing, more than her family . More than saving the life of KB , who was simply in her way.
Getting him arrested would not accomplish her goal. . Then she realized that there was no way she got to keep him.

So she turned on him, told the police everything.

So in the end it wasn’t even about her love or loyalty to him, it was about her and getting what she wanted. She wasn’t going to get get what she wanted, so she sang like a canary.

ITA

 

[PrairieWind]

I personally think both knew.


Interesting thoughts. Have wondered about some of the same myself but not all.

However, on this one, if she was hoping to be picked up, then why not just confess when confronted with her lies? If she would have been pulled over and confessed say in another town, why not just go to a PD in another town if she did not trust the one. Heck she could have went and confessed to Las Vegas PD and begged for protection before going home. This woman's actions do not fit someone scared and doing the right thing. The trip to Vegas, Sonic, etc. The burning of all of these phones, Kelsey's, the burner phone, etc., pretty convenient they are gone.

I find Colorado Springs odd too in some of this. I also find it odd that some reports say he and his bro are estranged and yet he talked to him prior to talking to police was it? I do not know the area though so could there have been a logistical reason for that department?

I wonder myself about some of your points and not so sure on others. However, all are food for thought...

I so far see her as guilty as he is but reserve the right to change my opinion as we learn more. And certainly respect your opinion and everyone else's. For some reason, I keep feeling like I am watching an R rated version of "Dallas" even though it took place in the wrong state... jmo.

Maybe LE wanted PF to know they were interviewing KK. Put pressure on him.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yes!! Thank you; I thought I must be dense or have missed something. This has baffled me too.

It doesn't look to be a long distance, but I'm pretty sure I'd notice someone walking along weighed down by trash bags, a container of bleach, some other bag or tote containing her cleaning outfit....

Maybe it's just me. I can't remember what I've read from one thread to the next! My head has been spinning since the prelim.

Maybe she actually had one of her minions drop her off.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

He had to clean himself up. Likely shower and change into clothes he already had there. Likely went through Kelsey's stuff.
He was also at her computer. He got into her Facebook account and changed the password. There must be his DNA and some blood evidence on the keyboard.

But why change her FB password? Surely KKL didn't know it. Who else was going to be able to know it was changed?

We heard that law enforcement changed the password when they came in, but I have not read anywhere that PF changed the password.

 

[ilovechili]

Count Me In as number three who thinks that the FBI might have been looking at him and his brother and specifically did that interview where his brother works, so he would find out about it. When I learned from that YouTube channel that a lot of people don't like to watch, and the neighbor said that the FBI came to her property to surveil, I was thinking perhaps they had a stingray near there to capture any Communications when she was brought in and up to the time of his arrest.

I am a bit out of the loop I guess. Haven't seen the channel and not sure where it is. Hard to keep up. Interesting though the thought about surveilling and being held there specifically, I think I do follow what you mean there. It makes me wonder too who all will be on the witness list when one comes out--do they do that in Colorado?

 

[enelram]

They'll call her @ the actual trial. We'll see what happens then. MOO

I can think of many questions the prosecutor would want to ask
MaF.
1) what time PF showed up turkey day
2) who all was at your home on turkey day
3) when and how did you find out KB was missing. what were you
told?
4) what was PF and KB relationship like? Cordial? Erratic?
5) Was KK ever in your home?
6) Did you ask about the bonfire?
and on and on.
Hope she's found in contempt if she refuses. I think KK is protecting her, for some reason.

 

[ilovechili]

Maybe she actually had one of her minions drop her off.

Not even sure why but this made me chuckle. "MINION, stop here I ordereth you by the power vested in me as a former rodeo queen." Thanks for the chuckle.

Not very nice of me I know... I just don't like people who clean up murder messes and then go eat...

 

[dixiegirl1035]

There were NOT three enighbors standing outside KB's residence watching them come and go, so let's say that never happened.

The prosecution called three witnesses.......SF, Commander Chris Adams of the WPPD, and Invesitigator Greg Slater of the CBI. They wanted to ask SF....... ONE QUESTION ABOUT ONE INCIDENT. Commander Adams was on the stand for approximately two hours and Investigator Slater for five hours. I'm sure you will call it whatever you like, but I'm sticking with "incidental witness" because there's no getting around it. She witnessed a single incident, that they wanted to ask her about.
Any citizen of the United States, or any legal immigrant, has an absolute right under the 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution to not answer any question that will incriminate themselves. A person can be ordered to take a seat in the witness box, and must answer every questions asked; but may answer each and every one by "taking the fifth". The judge can order her to answer, but he CANNOT, under any law in the land, force her to say anything that she feels is incriminating to herself. The prosecutor was arguing that the judge should order her to take the witness box. In the "Evidence is Great" hearing in Colorado, that is very ususual. Usually it's just LE that are called. The Judge said that hearing was not the proper time and place to do that, and that he would rule on whether she had to take the witness box at a later date.
Having spewed all of that, we all can see the prosecutor was hoping to get her on the stand, and "open the proverbial can of worms". The judge wouldn't allow it in that hearing.
Done deal. IMO

Put me in the camp that he knew that she was going to play the fifth ahead of time. And it was only a strategic reason he did that that day. It was to her being forced to plead the fifth, there for telling the community that she had knowledge of such.

And helps Telegraph to the community why she perhaps did not get the baby.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Regarding the Timeline.....

I haven’t seen the actual Idaho court record for KK and CL’s divorce.
In the arrest affidavit CL said they were divorced in the summer of 2018. However, others are saying court records state they were divorced on June 27, 2016.

Was their divorce filed on June 27, 2016 and final in 2018?

Does anybody know?
@PommyMommy @Esma

That sounds about right, it takes time,and many court proceedings to obtain a divorce. Especially if children are involved. Btw following this case gave me a nightmare about my ex last night.

 

[Dave F.]

Where I live most LE cars have tag readers, i’m thinking that in rural area’s that most LE cars don’t.

Expense.

Actually, Idaho has dozens of different license plates, all expiring at different times. They have only two things in common "Idaho" and "Famous Potatoes". They also catch a lot of people with expired plates, but for LE it's kind of like ants at a picnic. You can only swat so many.
Colorado has funky laws, Idaho has funky plates. IMO

 

[ilovechili]

Maybe LE wanted PF to know they were interviewing KK. Put pressure on him.

Interesting. Hmmm.