CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[OldLadyBlues]

It’s crazy, but it has been done.

We also don’t know the extent to which he was able to burn her body, and there very well may have been larger pieces left behind.

He disposed of them though, so we simply don’t know.

Hopefully the landfill search turns up something.

Honestly, I think she's out there.
Remember who we're talking about here doing this burn. can you honestly see PF constantly stirring that fire all night long to get it to burn evenly? Plus he was using gasoline and oil. Oil might have helped keep the fire hot. But the gasoline wouldn't do a darn thing except keep a flame going Or explode.
MOO

 

[GordianKnot]

I think the defense may present evidence that the dates KK claims she approached KB's condo with the coffee and baseball bats are dates when KB was out of town and KK was there at PF's invitation.

PF may have been staying in the townhouse caring for the baby and KK, his lover, was there while KB was out of town. PF told LE that sometimes KB was gone three days in a row. I think the baby's home with KB is where the baby stayed. Babies her age thrive on routine and a schedule.

JMO

BBM:

I would expect that one of the very first things the DA did in talking with KKL was to verify each and every detail of each and every aspect of her story to them, including the dates she claimed to approach KB's condo with coffee and/or bats.

The DA would then have done their due diligence to fact-check whether KB was in town or out of town working on those dates. There's no way the DA would have just blindly accepted storylines, including dates and times, coming from such an utterly disreputable source as KK.

IMO, the DA gathered factual evidence that satisfied them that KB was in fact in town on the dates KKL purported to approach her at the townhome.

 

[MassGuy]

Honestly, I think she's out there.
Remember who we're talking about here doing this burn. can you honestly see PF constantly stirring that fire all night long to get it to burn evenly? Plus he was using gasoline and oil. Oil might have helped keep the fire hot. But the gasoline wouldn't do a darn thing except keep a flame going Or explode.
MOO

Law enforcement seems convinced that she was burned, and it is absolutely in the best interest of KK to divulge the truth here.

She’s already admitted to actually following up on PF’s murder solicitations and admitted to cleaning up blood evidence.

This would be a stupid thing to lie about, and was backed up by evidence.

She even went as far as to mention SF seeing this fire.

Personally, I absolutely believe that Kelsey was burned.

 

[Seattle1]

I was wondering about it possibly being the friend of PF that stopped by KBs to pick up a package, and also unsure if that is the same package KBs mother wanted to know made it to KBs when she a asked PF.

If authorities believe man picking up package culpable, you can rest assured he won't get away since he's reportedly on surveillance obtained by LE. Name withheld as he's not a POI.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

If authorities believe man picking up package culpable, you can rest assured he won't get away since he's reportedly on surveillance obtained by LE. Name withheld as he's not a POI.

Right, and it seems unnecessary for the person who picked up a package to be in on anything. Besides, he would have no reason to be suspicious, as picking up a package for someone left at the door doesn't seem like a strange request. The circle of people aware of what happened to KB numbered 2 or 3.

 

[GordianKnot]

Law enforcement seems convinced that she was burned, and it is absolutely in the best interest of KK to divulge the truth here.

She’s already admitted to actually following up on PF’s murder solicitations and admitted to cleaning up blood evidence.

This would be a stupid thing to lie about, and was backed up by evidence.

She even went as far as to mention SF seeing this fire.

Personally, I absolutely believe that Kelsey was burned.

BBM:

As much as I absolutely hate writing these words, and I have no doubt you did as well,
I absolutely agree with you. Kelsey's body was burned in an effort to remove all traces of her.

Fortunately, I do believe she was dead at the point PF fed her body to the flames...I have to believe that, because to think otherwise would be an emotional bridge too far. I do think that KKL's story supports that KB would have certainly been dead at that point.

I don't know that the burn pile would have generated enough heat to remove all traces, so that's why I do have hope that what remains of her remains will be found.

All of the above: JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Clayton Sandell‏Verified account @Clayton_Sandell
Clayton Sandell Retweeted Clayton Sandell

Prosecutor says Kenney agrees to testify in the murder trial against #PatrickFrazee in the #KelseyBerreth case. She will be sentenced for the guilty plea after Patrick’s criminal trial.

Clayton Sandell added,

Clayton SandellVerified account @Clayton_Sandell
Prosecutor says Kenney has agreed to plead guilty to one count of tampering with evidence. #KelseyBerreth Clayton Sandell on Twitter …
7:38 AM - 8 Feb 2019 pst

Clayton Sandell‏Verified account @Clayton_Sandell
Clayton Sandell Retweeted Clayton Sandell

Judge reminds Krystal that she is required to testify against #PatrickFrazee in his murder trial, and that she will only be sentenced after his murder trial. Part of the agreement is that Krystal is not allowed to talk to the press. #KelseyBerreth

Clayton Sandell added,

Clayton SandellVerified account @Clayton_Sandell
Judge is asking Krystal if she understands all the implications of pleading guilty. She says she understands. #KelseyBerreth Clayton Sandell on Twitter …
7:45 AM - 8 Feb 2019 PST

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, it DOES seem to be a pattern with her. Perhaps that would explain the divorce. IMO

Just now I had a thought: CL has been through a lot with his lovely on-and-off wife, IMO. Maybe, he is the danger and cause for PF to have to wear a bullet proof vest? Wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[MemPat]

Honestly, I think she's out there.
Remember who we're talking about here doing this burn. can you honestly see PF constantly stirring that fire all night long to get it to burn evenly? Plus he was using gasoline and oil. Oil might have helped keep the fire hot. But the gasoline wouldn't do a darn thing except keep a flame going Or explode.
MOO

I just keep remembering PF wasn't the only Frazee at home that night and that's all I have to refrain from saying about that.

 

[Artis]

Yep- he’s screwed. Even if she is telling a truckload of lies to save herself, he can’t say anything because he’s fully involved as well- whatever the true story is.

If he's sunk, which seems to be the case, he may say "screw it", and go all in out of revenge, testify and try to take her down. I don't see him being offered any deal. As Cindy Watts scoffed, they don't kill anyone in Colorado, so he's facing LWOP. Therefore, he's got nothing to lose in going after her. He's already pissed and made that comment about being railroaded. What that's about I don't know. She could have been the one insisting he get rid of Kelsey and even threatened not to see if him anymore if it wasn't done. His call saying, "You have a mess to clean up" may have been "Okay, I did what you wanted, now get down here and clean it up". We just don't know. I hope he does testify and they destroy each other and she ends up charged with something more in line with her culpability. We're dealing a couple of cluster B personalities, here, so this could be a wild trial.

 

[Dave F.]

Law enforcement seems convinced that she was burned, and it is absolutely in the best interest of KK to divulge the truth here.

She’s already admitted to actually following up on PF’s murder solicitations and admitted to cleaning up blood evidence.

This would be a stupid thing to lie about, and was backed up by evidence.

She even went as far as to mention SF seeing this fire.

Personally, I absolutely believe that Kelsey was burned.

I don't think that anyone is saying KKL is lying about what she saw.
The problem is that PF removed the body and several other items in the tote and took it to a large, mostly wild area devoid of cellular tracking; that included Nash ranch on the 22nd. On the 24th, KKL drove MG's car to meet PF, who was driving the old small Toyota truck and followed him to Nash ranch. She watched him climb across the haystacks and lift the tote onto the tractor hay forks, lift it into his truck and followed him back to his home. He asked her to take the tote back to Idaho with her, and she refused. Then he placed it in the trough, doused it and started the fire. At the end, she noticed a lump still present in the trough, and assumed it was the remains. Nowhere in that description did she actually see a body, or anything else identifiable except a lump.
The questions are:
1. Can a 220 lb man lift a 110 lb tote with ease while standing on top of a haystack?
2. Is there any place between the condo and Nash ranch that might be a better hiding place for a body than on top of a haystack in someone else's barn?
3. Can a human body be incinerated while encased in plastic in 3-4 hrs using only a few gallons of gasoline, some motor oil and a little wood?
4. Is there a river or dump convenient to PF's home that the remnants of whatever he burned could be disposed of, and if so, where would the remnants be now?
5. If a tote that recently contained a dead body was placed on top of a haystack, while still containing a number of other bloody items that had been packed with said body, would a cadaver dog that was placed on a hay rake and suspended over said haystack get a hit on a dead body? Once done, if the cadaver dog was then lowered to the ground and walked around the haystack that he had gotten the hit; would the dog hit again, possibly where said tote had been set before placing it on the hay rake to raise it up a month earlier?
I don't have any answers to these questions, but I don't think KKL lied, either.
IMO

 

[SandyQLS]

Great. The State's star witness is a proven liar, a pathological manipulator. The defense will have a field day calling out all her lies. The jury will doubt anything she says. In the end, the prosecution will have to use all of the circumstantial evidence against PF that they can muster, and I believe they will prevail. But not due to KKL's story. In the end, the deal they made with this devil will be for naught. MOO.

ITA. Hung jury.

 

[Dave F.]

Just now I had a thought: CL has been through a lot with his lovely on-and-off wife, IMO. Maybe, he is the danger and cause for PF to have to wear a bullet proof vest? Wouldn't surprise me at all.

I dunno. We don't even know if he owns a gun. If he doesn't, he might be able to borrow one from one of his ex's friends, or employers of ex's friends. They seem to have plenty of them laying around. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm having a major problem with the burn. Even the crematorium can't get the fire hot enough to destroy all the bone. And you can't tell me that PF had that fire going long enough and hot enough to destroy her body as well as evidence. It just doesn't make any sense.
MOO, MOO

bbm
Opinion | Incinerator can burn 150 pounds of carcass in an hour, Babcock murder trial told: DiManno
Burning with an incinerator for example:
S. had asked of P., in their exchange: "How long to burn 150 pounds of carcass?"
Roughly an hour, P. responded; a "complete burn" more like three hours. "Depends what you have in there."
At a temperature of at least 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit for the main burner, or chamber; 1,400 for the afterburner attached to the top, which eliminates smoke and emissions.

What, if PF first used an animal incinerator of a friend, who has also cattle. What, if he burned only remaining things at home in a trough, visible to his mum and in the presence of KKL?
KKL would have told then half of the truth to investigators perhaps.

 

[MassGuy]

ITA. Hung jury.

I see no chance of a hung jury.

They don’t have to believe everything KK says.

They don’t have to like her (they’ll hate her).

But the evidence against him is overwhelming, and I don’t see any jury hanging when the stakes are this high.

He beat a mother to death with a baseball bat.

They’ll hate him more.

 

[Artis]

She had a job then.

Which, btw, makes her thousands of miles of travel to stalk Kelsey all the more notable and illustrates her own determination in all this. It's 780 miles from Twin Falls to Woodland Park (one way). In three months she made at at least four round trips. That's 6240 miles. New York to LA, round trip, is 5550. Twin Falls to Key West, round trip, is 5830. Maybe she was flying on some of these trips or maybe she worked part time or both. If she drove every time, that's an insane amount of miles to still be able to work full time.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Sorry!

 

[Artis]

Yeah. Without KK, I think this would be a case of “we know he did it, but we can’t prove it.”

I'm not so sure. Without KK, what do we have?

He was the last person to see Kelsey.
He lied to CB.
CB never hears from Kelsey after Thanksgiving day, establishing the day of her murder.
Her family finds blood in her home.
Second going over of her house finds blood all over the place.
His phone pinged in her area after he said he'd left.
He's on the neighbor's cam when he's not supposed to be.
Whatever was recovered in his house (still waiting on that Swiffer mop and bleach bottle).

Very incriminating, but thin, I'll admit. But add in the phony text to Doff, PF's cell phone records pointing to Idaho and KK. Without her talking, a more vigorous investigation may have made her crack. Oh, and we had the Rs and M being clued in and the rs calling CBI. While it may have taken a little longer, I think they would have gotten what they needed.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not so sure. Without KK, what do we have?

He was the last person to see Kelsey.
He lied to CB.
CB never hears from Kelsey after Thanksgiving day, establishing the day of her murder.
Her family finds blood in her home.
Second going over of her house finds blood all over the place.
His phone pinged in her area after he said he'd left.
He's on the neighbor's cam when he's not supposed to be.
Whatever was recovered in his house (still waiting on that Swiffer mop and bleach bottle).

Very incriminating, but thin, I'll admit. But add in the phony text to Doff, PF's cell phone records pointing to Idaho and KK. Without her talking, a more vigorous investigation may have made her crack. Oh, and we had the Rs and M being clued in and the rs calling CBI. While it may have taken a little longer, I think they would have gotten what they needed.

With her we have the solicitation charges, how Kelsey was killed, where he stored the body, where he burned the body, and how they attempted to mislead the investigation.

That’s big.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s possible that they could have gotten there, but it’s by no means a sure thing.

I take KK and her slap on the wrist any day.

It ain’t even close.

 

[SandyQLS]

I don't think that anyone is saying KKL is lying about what she saw.
The problem is that PF removed the body and several other items in the tote and took it to a large, mostly wild area devoid of cellular tracking; that included Nash ranch on the 22nd. On the 24th, KKL drove MG's car to meet PF, who was driving the old small Toyota truck and followed him to Nash ranch. She watched him climb across the haystacks and lift the tote onto the tractor hay forks, lift it into his truck and followed him back to his home. He asked her to take the tote back to Idaho with her, and she refused. Then he placed it in the trough, doused it and started the fire. At the end, she noticed a lump still present in the trough, and assumed it was the remains. Nowhere in that description did she actually see a body, or anything else identifiable except a lump.
The questions are:
1. Can a 220 lb man lift a 110 lb tote with ease while standing on top of a haystack?
2. Is there any place between the condo and Nash ranch that might be a better hiding place for a body than on top of a haystack in someone else's barn?
3. Can a human body be incinerated while encased in plastic in 3-4 hrs using only a few gallons of gasoline, some motor oil and a little wood?
4. Is there a river or dump convenient to PF's home that the remnants of whatever he burned could be disposed of, and if so, where would the remnants be now?
5. If a tote that recently contained a dead body was placed on top of a haystack, while still containing a number of other bloody items that had been packed with said body, would a cadaver dog that was placed on a hay rake and suspended over said haystack get a hit on a dead body? Once done, if the cadaver dog was then lowered to the ground and walked around the haystack that he had gotten the hit; would the dog hit again, possibly where said tote had been set before placing it on the hay rake to raise it up a month earlier?
I don't have any answers to these questions, but I don't think KKL lied, either.
IMO

Great thoughts, Dave F.

Add:

The black hard plastic tote would have to be heavy duty plastic to carry 110 pounds. So add at least 25 pounds for the tote itself = minimum 135 pounds.

A 110 pound 63" person (KB) would not fit in a typical 50 gallon tote (Rubbermaid 41" long, 17" wide, 14" height, weight 25 pounds) so it had to be a bigger tote than that.

The tote lid is not an effective seal. WP historical temps:
11/22 = 57 hi to 21 lo
11/23 = 50 hi to 33 lo
11/24 = 56 hi to 24 lo
A dead body in a plastic tote would be kept fairly warm encouraging decomposition. The smell after 48 hours would be horrendous. Sure, they just handled it, put it in a vehicle, and they drove all over with it and took it to the ranchette.

An open bonfire is unlikely to have been hot enough to reduce long bones, and even after a proper crematoria disposal, bones have to crushed to reduce them. I don't believe whatever "lump" KK saw was any human body. She may have witnessed the burning of her trash bags and a black tote at the ranchette, so what, KK states she never saw KB's body.