CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[Steelhead]

Are all bets off with KK and the DA if PF does a plea bargain?

 

[MassGuy]

Are all bets off with KK and the DA if PF does a plea bargain?

He won’t plea, there’s just no way.

KK’s deal isn’t going anywhere.

He’s not going to say “oh, she’s more responsible than she’s letting on, let’s make a deal.”

The evidence would have to support that, which it doesn’t.

 

[TheVic]

He won’t plea, there’s just no way.

KK’s deal isn’t going anywhere.

He’s not going to say “oh, she’s more responsible than she’s letting on, let’s make a deal.”

The evidence would have to support that, which it doesn’t.

I'm thinking if he wanted a plea deal, he should/would have started talking a long time ago.

 

[Steelhead]

He won’t plea, there’s just no way.

KK’s deal isn’t going anywhere.

He’s not going to say “oh, she’s more responsible than she’s letting on, let’s make a deal.”

The evidence would have to support that, which it doesn’t.

Is that a yes?

 

[justpeachy22]

BBM:

ab, I'm absolutely, positively certain that this is true. PF used his foul moods to control KB.

He has all the emotional maturity and intelligence of a petulant 5-year old.
(Apologies to petulant 5-year-olds for the unflattering comparison).

I have no doubt PF made KB's life utterly stressful and miserable...
Until he brutally, violently and viciously ended her life, that is.

Just one more reason to loathe and revile him. As if we all needed one more reason.

CO needs to stick the needle in his arm.

JMO.

I have to consider that if he was controlling with KB, he probably was this way with Kk too. right?

 

[dkryder]

the situation with SF at the preliminary hearing still puzzles me. as far as i understand the 5th it allows a defendant to remain silent. i get that. but witnesses are different. the 5th allows them to refuse to answer a question due to possible self-incrimination. this was the 1st time i'm aware of that a witness was allowed to refuse to take the stand citing the 5th. refusing to take the stand is contempt and the 5th does not allow a free pass for a witness in contempt. IMO. so, as i see it, Mays was correct, SF should of had to take the stand and answer any questions that in no way could have incriminated her. like the question , "when did PF get to the house on 11/22?" how in heck is an answer to that in any way going to incriminate SF? so the judge really cut SF some slack, imo. hope the trial judge is a bit different. MOO.

 

[Artis]

Would we be saying he's just as culpable or even more so?

PF is the murderer. KK is not. No matter how people feel about her.

IMO? He's more culpable because he killed her. That's legally and morally. As to the question of who's more evil, psychologically, something like that is hard to hard to quantify but I put them both in the cluster B category, on the highly dangerous end of the spectrum. As someone else pointed out, the guy who murdered Jayme Closs' parents made a couple of dry runs but everything wasn't just right so he passed on it, just like KK did. I think KK is fully capable of murder and she has demonstrated a desire to kill. She's an accomplice in this so, yeah, I think she's as psychologically deranged and dangerous as he is. Legally, though, no. About 75% as culpable, I'd say, but being treated as though she's about 10% as culpable. She's also an habitual liar and I'm not convinced as to who was soliciting whom. Last but not least, had she been one of PF's guy friends, I would feel exactly the same way. I don't see sex when looking at psychopaths or psychopathic traits.

 

[justpeachy22]

It seems to me that neither pf or kk had a plan for what to do with the body after the murder, which seems strange to me, given all the time they had leading up to it. He tried to get KK to take the body to ID, but she refused. That must have infuriated him. He must’ve panicked with his family at home for dinner and quickly came up with the idea to temporarily store the tote at Nash. Sounds to me like the burn was not part of the plan but became plan B when he came up with no other options. He couldn’t do a ravine dump of the body at that point. Sending the body with KK to ID in a tote proves to me again that he could care less about KK.

 

[Artis]

We will never have an autopsy report on Kelsy Berroth.

WITH ALL APOLOGIES TO THE BERROTH FAMILY:

Right now, we only have the sworn testimony of KKL to describe what PF claimed to do her and what KKL found when she arrived. People - this is tenuous stuff to convict someone on. And initially calculated, but then his rage caused him to lose control.

But, from what KKL described, this was a very savage attack.

Smacking someone on the back of the head can cause severe internal brain injuries but doesn;t cause exanguination and huge blood spatters, under chairs, on walls and ceilings.

Warning: Graphic stuff ahead
IMHO. He pummeled her many times with a baseball bat with huge force. He didn't just hit her in the back of the head - maybe that was the blow to stun her. She likely was unconscious with the first couple of blows

He obviously pummeled her face enough to knock out teeth. To destroy her face. This is a real psychopathologic sign of overkill. He would likely have smashed her chest, breaking ribs and skin. IMHO, he likely hit her more than 20 times. Breaking many of her bones. The amount of blood described says to me he lost control.

I'm sorry to be so harsh in being descriptive, but He is the killer that needs to never be free again. KKL is just a fool

I don't agree about KK only being a fool but do agree about your theory of the attack. He was in a frenzy of rage. TWO HOURS he was in there. Where was the baby all of that time? I don't know how she wasn't exposed to some of it.

 

[Artis]

That's the scary part. If they don't believe a word she says, I don't know if circumstantial evidence will be enough. Not without physical evidence to tie him to the crime and not without a body.
Just picturing the smirk on his face if he walks is enough for me to hope the jury finds her credible.
Let's hope they find something in the Landfill.

The jury may find her a despicable liar but enough of the other evidence will confirm her general account, imo, and he''ll be convicted.

 

[enelram]

Just now I had a thought: CL has been through a lot with his lovely on-and-off wife, IMO. Maybe, he is the danger and cause for PF to have to wear a bullet proof vest? Wouldn't surprise me at all.

could be. Early chatter hinted that KK's romantic history shows that she tended to
like bad boys. Bad boys with criminal pasts.

Anyone want to share what they think is in PF's background to turn him into
a sick, vicious killer? Was he horribly abused? Was he beaten and bloodied?
Did he witness abusive treatment of his mother?
I just want to know how this guy became a mean, sick excuse of a human being.
There must be an explainable path. Was he on drugs? Was he a mean drunk?

 

[pcrum12]

I tell you, if Ann Rule were alive, this would be the book she would write, so many twists and turns. Could someone tell me who texted KB's employer and said she would not be coming in. Was it PF?

Ann was my favorite and sorely missed

 

[pcrum12]

The things she told them, the things that were material to the case against PF, they were able to verify.

I’m sure that they do believe she is saving face in some areas, but they clearly believe her in regards to how this all went down.

She took them to the location where KB’s body was stored. They found evidence on the hay that corroborated it.

She took them to the burn site, in which they were also able to find evidence that supported her account.

She also pointed them to blood evidence in specific locations within KB’s house.

I’m sure that cell phone records and witness statements, also supported her story.

So yes, they may have some suspicions in regards to lies, but not big ones that affect the case.

Did they (Police) take her (KK) to the Ranch? Didn't know that....

 

[pcrum12]

Why she is probably not near there and boy, we would hate to have her drive 700 miles over 3 times in the next 3 months... Like she did in an attempt to murder KB. Colorado law states if you walk away from an attempt your not guilty of premeditated thoughts of murder.... Justice is blind. JMO

If I had been the judge (funny) I would have demanded she appear in person since she had no problem logistically driving that distance 3 times in an attempt to murder Kelsey - distance should be no excuse for her.

 

[marchioness96]

Aaargh! Hope KK is adept at playing the world's smallest violin!!

Although it appears KK is no longer standing by her man.

She was given a choice: choose LWOP as an accomplice or be free to go to Sonic and carry on playing...

She chose. Ugh.

moo

Ha, you're right. I was just being flippant, and picturing the song playing over a visual of KK visiting her captive cowboy . MOO

 

[enelram]

the situation with SF at the preliminary hearing still puzzles me. as far as i understand the 5th it allows a defendant to remain silent. i get that. but witnesses are different. the 5th allows them to refuse to answer a question due to possible self-incrimination. this was the 1st time i'm aware of that a witness was allowed to refuse to take the stand citing the 5th. refusing to take the stand is contempt and the 5th does not allow a free pass for a witness in contempt. IMO. so, as i see it, Mays was correct, SF should of had to take the stand and answer any questions that in no way could have incriminated her. like the question , "when did PF get to the house on 11/22?" how in heck is an answer to that in any way going to incriminate SF? so the judge really cut SF some slack, imo. hope the trial judge is a bit different. MOO.

Just an observation and some speculation on SF's refusal
to testify:

In reading articles on violent murderers it's not unusual for the
mothers to be in denial for years, and attempt to cover up the
misdeeds of the perp son.
Passive, denying mothers have most likely covered for bad behaviors of son for years, even as he was growing up.
Often these sons started out being mean and cruel to animals,
had great interest in ARSON, and were anti-social according to
studies by FBI profilers.

IMO, MaF probably covered up bad behavior of PF for years.
This can also cause estrangement from other siblings because
this son gets away with all kinds of problems he creates.

I don't believe this is the first time PF committed a cruel, violent
act. Maybe the first time he was caught. MaF is still covering
for him as she has his whole life.

PF not only viciously beat his victim but then went on to defile
her body with ARSON. He wanted to totally eleminate her
from his earth. Similar to the criminal that killed his mother,
who he hated, then cut out her tongue and vocal chords and
stuffed them down the garbage disposal. All, because he didn't
ever want to hear his mother's voice again. Her voice angered
him, he said.
PF's rage against his victim tells me he totally wanted to eliminate her. Out of his life completely. It's unsurprising he also used
arson to accomplish this.
I'd like to see a forensic psychiatrist's take on him, explain his
childhood history and the likelihood of whether or not he would have killed again. KK may be correct. He probably has done
something similar previously, maybe to animals. moo.

 

[Dave F.]

Are all bets off with KK and the DA if PF does a plea bargain?

There is no reason to renege on the deal with KKL. If PF were to plead guilty, she would still be be that cause of it.
IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

It seems to me that neither pf or kk had a plan for what to do with the body after the murder, which seems strange to me, given all the time they had leading up to it. He tried to get KK to take the body to ID, but she refused. That must have infuriated him. He must’ve panicked with his family at home for dinner and quickly came up with the idea to temporarily store the tote at Nash. Sounds to me like the burn was not part of the plan but became plan B when he came up with no other options. He couldn’t do a ravine dump of the body at that point. Sending the body with KK to ID in a tote proves to me again that he could care less about KK.

I agree.

As evidence has shown he wanted her dead for 3 months or more.
Kelsey working during the week and not being around except weekends/extented weekends limited his options.
He was not prepared for the aftermath of the murder, placing calls to sf&kk.
Kk was not available for 2 days.

I do think that it was an ”opportunity” murder.

 

[kkdj]

I agree.

As evidence has shown he wanted her dead for 3 months or more.
Kelsey working during the week and not being around except weekends/extented weekends limited his options.
He was not prepared for the aftermath of the murder, placing calls to sf&kk.
Kk was not available for 2 days.

I do think that it was an ”opportunity” murder.

It seems like, although trying to plan the murder, none of the plans panned out so PF just went bat **** crazy on her when he saw the moment to do so. I'm guessing he was frustrated that nothing planned seemed to work out and he was sick and tired of waiting.
I do wonder tho, since he had her out the previous night into the early morning hours, with her shooting her gun, creating gun residue on her hands and clothing, why he didn't follow thru then. What caused him to not murder her that night? He had the perfect opportunity. moo

 

[enelram]

good question, kkdj.
I also wonder if KK knew about his night out to tend cattle.
Yeah, there had to be an ulterior motive with that trip. Unless
he really did need a 'second hand' to help w/ cows. Or maybe
he just went to Nash Ranch to get a round bale to take to cows.
Or maybe he was doing a 'drive by' checking that no one was
around Nash Ranch to see his disposal the next day.
If KK didn't know about that trip, we may never learn the motive.