CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[Artis]

When KK said she had a headache and needed a nap after
watching her competition be burned in an animal trough,
where did she take that nap? did she go into SF's home and
lie down? Did she and SF and PF discuss what they were burning outside?
It could be that SF did more than 'look' outside and see the fire.
this could have been an illuminating discussion on the joys
of the bonfire.

I keep getting this visual of a silhouette of Ma, standing there on the porch, as that huge fire rages. You know she knew. Whether she approved is anyone's guess.

 

[ajaylee]

wow - not even any discovery exchanged. Hmm - and she was possibly seeing PF at this time according to the Affidavit? Why do people divorce and stay together? Was there a financial motivation for being divorced? I find this odd. JMO

I think she wanted to make herself available for PF. They had reconnected but I think she wanted more than sneaking around behind her husband's back. I'm not sure PF wanted more than that. I'll bet she wasn't happy when she found out that PF was also sneaking around and had even fathered a child.

 

[ajaylee]

I'm a bit skeptical of her after the prelim because she exercised her right to remain silent. If she had not lied about something, what was there to fear? Of course, it was her right to do so. Will be interesting to see how that plays out in a trial if the DA decides to put her on the stand.

I do see your point though as it's hard to imagine as a mother that your child did something so horrific, not even in a moment of anger but deliberated and turned it into a sadistic "game" of smelling candle scents. I'm sure he's still telling Ma F he didn't do it, KK did. I know he's a killer, I'm just not sure about KK's tale of how everything came about. I need to see that evidence to be convinced. MOO

This. Also, we've all seen movies and TV shows where justice doesn't work out. I suspect she started out believing (or hoping against hope) that PF was not involved in this. I imagine PF was telling her the same lies he was telling other people about KB: drugs, bad mother, possibly hurting the baby, etc. Of course SF is going to be inclined to believe her son, that's natural.

She's also smart enough to realize that if something happened to KB, LE automatically starts looking at significant other/spouses. She might have worried that if she opened her mouth and said the wrong thing, her words might be used to target her son. Best to just clam up and hope for the best.

Someone commented on the one halfway decent picture of PF at the hearing. He looked rough, very rough. I'm sure his attorney had already broken the news that KK had talked. I think he realized then that it's possible he has already taken his last steps as a free man for a long time to come and he may never again set foot on his mother's ranchette. That's a pretty sobering realization.

 

[enelram]

Great post. When people ask "why", this where the answers are found. This and some brain scans.

To be fair, besides looking at SF's role in raising her son, we need
to look at what role his father played or did not play in his life.

If true, that his parents were divorced when PF was around 12 yrs. old, this is a critical period in a young boy's life. He's graduating
from being mostly a momma's boy to learning how to become
a young adolescent and normally this would be learned from the father. Dad's role is to teach son how to become a man. And according to Dr. Drew dad's help the son to learn to regulate
aggression. (sound familiar here ?)

Often when Dad and Mom divorces at this age the son perceives
this as abandonment from his father. Anger sets in and takes
the place of depression, in many cases.

We don't know how much time PF's dad spent with him as a
young child. Being the youngest child, maybe dad was tired
of being a parent with the older siblings and he may have, in fact,
neglected and later abandoned the young PF. Maybe he was
hot to live the single life without the constraints of a wife and
child. My guess is PF resented this and took on an angry personna as part of his normal personality. Maybe he took
to drinking and or drugs to drown his sorrows and problems.

Many homicidal males have been shown to have been neglected,
deprived and/or suffered abuse or trauma in their earlier years.
I suspect this is true of PF also. MaF probably knows this also,
which may be why she's so protective of him even today. She
knows he did not get the same family/parental benefits her
other children received. This is why he seems to be the misfit
in the family. moo.

 

[susiQ]

I keep getting this visual of a silhouette of Ma, standing there on the porch, as that huge fire rages. You know she knew. Whether she approved is anyone's guess.

I really can't be certain Ma F knew the night of the 24th what they were burning. She likely stood there and wondered, maybe even asked later on. You have to believe they lied to her. They are both pathological liars we have no doubt. However, she knows now, I am certain.

 

[enelram]

Very good post, SusiQ.

I am not convinced there was a tooth, and with a root. I notice KK points out the root because she knows that's where the pulp and blood vessels are for DNA. In a baseball bat attack, how does a whole tooth become dislodged and end up in a vent? Just me, I would expect broken off teeth. I have so many doubts about everything KK says, I wonder if she was fishing for a bullet casing and there was no tooth. MOO IMO JMO

Apparently someone knowlegable about this subject, wrote about
this on a much earlier thread. Seems when hit the right way and
with enough force, blunt force hits to the head can totally dislodge
teeth w/ roots. I've never heard that but it could be true. I'll
do some searching and see what I can find.

 

[MsBetsy]

Wonder why?

Maybe they stayed under one roof because of the kids or because neither had the money for another place.
They must have been on pretty good terms to live with each other for so long.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I keep getting this visual of a silhouette of Ma, standing there on the porch, as that huge fire rages. You know she knew. Whether she approved is anyone's guess.

I really can't be certain Ma F knew the night of the 24th what they were burning. She likely stood there and wondered, maybe even asked later on. You have to believe they lied to her. They are both pathological liars we have no doubt. However, she knows now, I am certain.

If I saw my son and a woman burning a huge fire out my front door I would never in a million years think they were burning a body. The thought wouldn't even cross my mind.
jmo

 

[oviedo]

Apparently someone knowlegable about this subject, wrote about
this on a much earlier thread. Seems when hit the right way and
with enough force, blunt force hits to the head can totally dislodge
teeth w/ roots. I've never heard that but it could be true. I'll
do some searching and see what I can find.

I recall this as well - mostly sports injuries - entire tooth/root can be re-implanted if kept on ice long enough from what I have read/seen JMO (also, it is a super specific detail, no? - it's odd to me)

 

[oviedo]

If I saw my son and a woman burning a huge fire out my front door I would never in a million years think they were burning a body. The thought wouldn't even cross my mind.
jmo

Me either and at this point, no one knew she was missing - although if invited to Thanksgiving dinner - I would wonder why she didn't show up but baby was there? But if PF laid the groundwork - she wouldn't think twice if he told her the same story - she went off to visit her grandmother. No reason to think otherwise IMO even with KK there, if she was. I wonder if she will be called as a witness at the next custody hearing. Would really like her to verify both of them were seen at the burning IMO.

 

[Julia966]

If I saw my son and a woman burning a huge fire out my front door I would never in a million years think they were burning a body. The thought wouldn't even cross my mind.
jmo

That's what I think too, but I wonder on what basis she's taking the fifth. If all she knows is that a fire was burning, which is probably not that unusual on a ranch, I wonder what can be construed as incriminating her.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think she wanted to make herself available for PF. They had reconnected but I think she wanted more than sneaking around behind her husband's back. I'm not sure PF wanted more than that. I'll bet she wasn't happy when she found out that PF was also sneaking around and had even fathered a child.

Maybe she was hoping she could eventually move in with PF and he kept saying, "Yeah, yeah, but let's wait a little longer for the economy to get better."

 

[susiQ]

This. Also, we've all seen movies and TV shows where justice doesn't work out. I suspect she started out believing (or hoping against hope) that PF was not involved in this. I imagine PF was telling her the same lies he was telling other people about KB: drugs, bad mother, possibly hurting the baby, etc. Of course SF is going to be inclined to believe her son, that's natural.

She's also smart enough to realize that if something happened to KB, LE automatically starts looking at significant other/spouses. She might have worried that if she opened her mouth and said the wrong thing, her words might be used to target her son. Best to just clam up and hope for the best.

Someone commented on the one halfway decent picture of PF at the hearing. He looked rough, very rough. I'm sure his attorney had already broken the news that KK had talked. I think he realized then that it's possible he has already taken his last steps as a free man for a long time to come and he may never again set foot on his mother's ranchette. That's a pretty sobering realization.

Certainly agree. However, one lie he could not pass by SF was KB burning baby K's hand with a curling iron whether intentionally or by accident. She saw baby K as much as he did and she would have seen this type of injury. UNLESS, baby K burned her hand while being out and about with him on his job with his little black cast forging unit and he spun this into something it wasn't for KK's benefit. I have a hard time believing KB was responsible for something like that, but I can tell you I know of a little baby that got out of sight of his LOVING father and burned his tiny little hand on a wood stove. It happened during a time of distress when the baby's momma was incapacitated by a brain tumour and everyone was in distress. Terrible accident during a time of momentary distraction, but he recovered completely, not even a scar. Treated at hospital. No evil intent. No record of baby K ever being treated. JMT.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Me either and at this point, no one knew she was missing - although if invited to Thanksgiving dinner - I would wonder why she didn't show up but baby was there? But if PF laid the groundwork - she wouldn't think twice if he told her the same story - she went off to visit her grandmother. No reason to think otherwise IMO even with KK there, if she was. I wonder if she will be called as a witness at the next custody hearing. Would really like her to verify both of them were seen at the burning IMO.

I think PF laid the ground work for sure. I think SF is going to be a key witness - that's IF she talks.
jmo

 

[Reachingfornettles]

I really can't be certain Ma F knew the night of the 24th what they were burning. She likely stood there and wondered, maybe even asked later on. You have to believe they lied to her. They are both pathological liars we have no doubt. However, she knows now, I am certain.

I wonder if she thought about joining the campfire with the other girl because I'm sure she knew that he spent the night with KB because he was getting taken care of by her until 4 in the morning only two nights before. I'm sure it was burning into the night hours and if it wasn't then I'm sure there's some remain somewhere. Wonder if she gave more information about where she threw those keys in the Gorge. Seems strange to go to the trouble to throw keys in the gorge but yet keep the phones...smh JMO

 

[ajaylee]

If I saw my son and a woman burning a huge fire out my front door I would never in a million years think they were burning a body. The thought wouldn't even cross my mind.
jmo

This. I might grumble at him later and ask him why he burned plastic, knowing it throws off really nasty smoke. I certainly wouldn't think he was burning evidence of a crime, particularly not 'evidence' that was a human body.

 

[MsBetsy]

That's what I think too, but I wonder on what basis she's taking the fifth. If all she knows is that a fire was burning, which is probably not that unusual on a ranch, I wonder what can be construed as incriminating her.

Maybe they just want her testifying that she witnessed the two of them at the burning, to support KK's statement. I would guess that she doesn't want to incriminate her son, either. Imo

 

[Tippy Lynn]

That's what I think too, but I wonder on what basis she's taking the fifth. If all she knows is that a fire was burning, which is probably not that unusual on a ranch, I wonder what can be construed as incriminating her.

Maybe she didn't like KB and made it known to others.
jmo

 

[susiQ]

That's what I think too, but I wonder on what basis she's taking the fifth. If all she knows is that a fire was burning, which is probably not that unusual on a ranch, I wonder what can be construed as incriminating her.

Possibly she lied about the time PF arrived at the ranchette on TG?

 

[MsBetsy]

This. I might grumble at him later and ask him why he burned plastic, knowing it throws off really nasty smoke. I certainly wouldn't think he was burning evidence of a crime, particularly not 'evidence' that was a human body.

I wonder if that's why he burned the plastic, to disguise the smell of a burning body.