CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[bonjoviblonde]

I have been bothered about the word "opportunity" used by KK regarding PF telling KK when to kill KB:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV26s26 seconds ago
On Nov. 3, Kenney was with family in Reno when Frazee called again with another “opportunity”. She told Slater she looked into airfare, but decided she couldn’t do it. @KOAA

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm 28s29 seconds ago
Nov. 3rd Krystal and Frazee spoke on the phone. Nov. 21st Krystal and Frazee spoke again. Krystal says he asked her what Krystal was doing on Thanksgiving. #kelseyberreth#PatrickFrazee

Both tweets are from Thread 39 page 78.

I have had trouble understanding Why there needs to be an "opportunity" given the lifestyles and work schedules of PF, KB, and baby K. Per KK, the "opportunity" is proposed by PF to KK although it would seem that KK's work schedule and child custody arrangements, plus living out of state, would be the determining factor as to "opportunity."

KK makes her 3 solo trips and failed murder attempts Sept. 23, October 15, and October 21. KB disappears 11/22. If KB had her period on 11/22 with tampons in her bathroom trash, then she likely also had her period 10/21 and 9/23 ? Is KB's period the "opportunity" ?

I had already wanted to know if LE is testing the blood found outside the bathroom to see if it is menstrual blood that KK planted.

I don't see how there could ever be enough blood on tampons to plant in other areas of the house. I'm assuming when LE went back to KB's house they used luminol and found more than a few specks of blood which you would get if you were able to get ANY blood off a tampon to smear around.

Why would PF want KK to plant blood anyway?

 

[Gardenista]

From Thread 39 page 84:
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV1m1 minute ago
Kenney did find a tooth but threw it away. When she was done, she put the trash bags out front, got her car and then picked up the trash before going to Sonic. @KOAA

*
Thread 40, page 13, Feb 19, 2019, continuing conversation after Prelim ended:

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #40 *ARREST*

“She was hoping that law enforcement would find them (KK & PF) sooner, and she would be contacted sooner,” Slater said.

After cleaning up, Lee said she put the trash bags (full fof KBs blood)near where Berreth’s Corolla was parked, loaded them into her car, and went to Sonic. ..."

@skyedaze
seems to be quoting a media source, but poster did not provide link.

*
The source is 9News.com:

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

"... After cleaning up, Lee said she put the trash bags near where Berreth’s Corolla was parked, loaded them into her car, and went to Sonic. From there, she returned to Frazee’s property. ..."

TY SO much. The dogs hitting in that area was one of the details that bothered me. All I'd seen was the "out front" part which wasn't enough for me to put it to rest in my mind.

 

[ab01]

Was it ever mentioned that the bat used to kill Kelsey was a wooden bat? KK had previously brought an aluminum bat to kill her. It's possible that it was that bat that used. Aluminum melts at 1200 degrees. As someone who's spent a lot of time looking at wild fires and what burns and what doesn't, I've seen lots of melted engine blocks and wheels. Maybe we'll get lucky and there will be some aluminum in that landfill.

Cop testifies woman told police Colorado man beat fiancee to death with a bat


"Kenney told police that Frazee had wrapped a sweater around Berreth's head, telling her he wanted her to guess the scent of candles as a ruse, before beating her to death with a baseball bat and stashing her body on a ranch. After she cleaned the house, Kenney said she went with Frazee to retrieve Berreth's body and watched as Frazee burned it on his property along with the wooden bat, Slater said."

So per KK via CBI Agent Slater

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I will hide with you because here I go again...how did PF get the bat into KB’s townhouse?

In a ... tote bag? *ducks and runs*

KK makes her 3 solo trips and failed murder attempts Sept. 23, October 15, and October 21. KB disappears 11/22.

Didn't CB visit KB sometime in October? Do we know when/for how long? Presumably it didn't coincide with any of KK's failed attempts? Maybe the "opportunity" was a point in time when there might be a few days of lesser expectation of communication between KB and her mom?

 

[ab01]

I don't see how there could ever be enough blood on tampons to plant in other areas of the house. I'm assuming when LE went back to KB's house they used luminol and found more than a few specks of blood which you would get if you were able to get ANY blood off a tampon to smear around.

Why would PF want KK to plant blood anyway?

I don't either, I honestly didn't expect that there would be theories about planted menstrual blood in this case......But here we are

 

[MyBelle]

10:10 a.m.: Prosecutors asked Adams about a "black tote" that Frazee had in his possession shown on one surveillance video.

11 a.m.: Cheryl also said that Kelsey told her it was "nice to have her gun back" and that "she felt safe now," according to Slater. He learned from Cheryl that Frazee took Kelsey's gun after they had an argument over finances on Jan. 1, 2017. During that argument, Berreth allegedly said "Maybe I'd be better off dead" and pointed the gun at herself. Slater says Berreth got the gun back on Nov. 22, 2018.

Accomplice: Kelsey Berreth was blindfolded, beaten, burned by fiance

Thanks for the link. Something jumps out at me and I don't believe I've read it anywhere else. It implies PF was in the townhouse during the time KK was there cleaning. Has anyone else reported it this way? I know it was difficult to hear in the courtroom.

He said Kenney helped Patrick Frazee clean up the entire bloody scene, but she said she intentionally left blood splatters for law enforcement to find.

 

[ab01]

Thanks for the link. Something jumps out at me and I don't believe I've read it anywhere else. It implies PF was in the townhouse during the time KK was there cleaning. Has anyone else reported it this way? I know it was difficult to hear in the courtroom.

He said Kenney helped Patrick Frazee clean up the entire bloody scene, but she said she intentionally left blood splatters for law enforcement to find.

I think it may be a context issue as in:

I helped my wife with the grocery shopping this week by running to the store. She didn't go with me but I helped her by doing it myself....MOO

 

[ajaylee]

Thanks for the link. Something jumps out at me and I don't believe I've read it anywhere else. It implies PF was in the townhouse during the time KK was there cleaning. Has anyone else reported it this way? I know it was difficult to hear in the courtroom.

He said Kenney helped Patrick Frazee clean up the entire bloody scene, but she said she intentionally left blood splatters for law enforcement to find.

I took it to be an awkward way of saying the two of them cleaned up the scene, but not together. PF 'cleaned up' the body and KK took care of the rest.

MHO!

 

[MyBelle]

Was it ever mentioned that the bat used to kill Kelsey was a wooden bat? KK had previously brought an aluminum bat to kill her. It's possible that it was that bat that used. Aluminum melts at 1200 degrees. As someone who's spent a lot of time looking at wild fires and what burns and what doesn't, I've seen lots of melted engine blocks and wheels. Maybe we'll get lucky and there will be some aluminum in that landfill.

That is stunningly horrific. I can't fathom PF and KK just standing by and watching such a fire.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't see how there could ever be enough blood on tampons to plant in other areas of the house. I'm assuming when LE went back to KB's house they used luminol and found more than a few specks of blood which you would get if you were able to get ANY blood off a tampon to smear around.

Why would PF want KK to plant blood anyway?

I thought it was strange that the defense brought that up. For some reason, and I have no idea why, I think they were telegraphing something that they would want brought up at trial.

For some strange reason, I do hope that they do confirm that that tampon was from KB and not KKL. I don't know why I'm thinking that or I don't know where where I'm going with this, but it was just so strange that it was brought up.

Yes, it could be perhaps they were just talking about that it could be in the ceiling and on the walls and on the vanity and the door hinges on the rug from that, (pfffft) but it just seems so strange that they brought that up.

I am not not not going anywhere else with this, although I could.

 

[MyBelle]

I took it to be an awkward way of saying the two of them cleaned up the scene, but not together. PF 'cleaned up' the body and KK took care of the rest.

MHO!

That sure was the impression I was under until I read that. I know reporters said it was difficult to hear.

 

[ilovechili]

I absolutely guarantee you that the prosecution has more than we know.

And I also agree with you that we are dealing with a pack of known liars, starting with PF and KKL.

I further agree that people will lie under oath on a witness stand if they think they can get away with it. That's why defense attorneys rarely call defendants to the stand in cases such as these. The results can sink the case. Hans Reiser testified in his own defense and did himself no favors, for example.

I have been a juror twice. The first trial was a civil case between an electronics corp. and a real estate agency that lasted 7 1/2 weeks. The co-complainants were suing each other. Witnesses from both sides lied on the witness stand. We had stacks of evidence. We had to find the truth in those lies. In this case, it would not serve KKL to lie on the witness stand, but again, if she thought she could get away with it, I certainly wouldn't put it past her. I think SF will be a hostile witness. It will be an interesting trial to say the least.

Justice for Kelsey. She was a lovely young woman who should have lived a long, happy, fulfilling life. MOO

It would not serve her to lie but when I consider who we are talking about and the fact she already has, I would not count on it but I see your points. We do not know the plea deal either.

In fact, have the exhibits been released yet? Or a hearing transcript, I mean the entire transcript, not the tweets and not the affidavit.

I agree it will be interesting to say the least with probably some surprising testimony and evidence. It still is looking like a he said/she said whether PF testifies or chooses not to.

Just praying for justice for all of the victims.

 

[MassGuy]

I took it to be an awkward way of saying the two of them cleaned up the scene, but not together. PF 'cleaned up' the body and KK took care of the rest.

MHO!

Yeah. I don’t think he was there at the time.

When KK arrived in Colorado, she picked up the keys to Kelsey’s house, which had been left at the gate to his “ranch.”

She parked in the community center parking lot, and traveled on foot to Kelsey’s house.

There is no mention of PF being there at the time, or where he would have parked had he been there.

He would have had the keys anyways.

She cleaned the house herself.

This is important, as I was up until now, under the impression that PF was there at the time, instructing her where and how to clean.

I wonder if there are incriminating text messages on his part that provide instructions...

 

[ajaylee]

I think KK is afraid to actually tell a lie - she can't be sure exactly what LE has and she really really doesn't want to risk her great plea deal.

That said, I don't think she's above keeping quiet about some things, particularly if it's something she hasn't been specifically asked about. For example, anything she and PF talked about - if there were no witnesses and it wasn't via text, it's entirely 'he said, she said'. I suspect she's got a reasonable idea of what LE has now and if she leaves something out and they bring it up later, she can probably say it slipped her mind and they didn't specifically ask about it.

Am I correct? Did KK park in a community parking lot, walk to the condo, clean up, put the bags of trash outside by KB's car - and then walked back to her car and drove back to the condo to pick up the trash?

Something that hasn't been mentioned, as far as I can tell, is whether or not KK's comings and goings were captured on the furniture store video.

 

[Artis]

I got the sense that was about his excuses for not marrying her. CB stated something about how the reason they didn't marry was the cattle market taking a nose dive. I think he made a lot of excuses.

She apparently thought they were engaged. She came from a super religious family. She probably felt a lot of pressure to be married to the father of her child.

I mean there's something quite odd in this. She felt she was engaged and had a relationship. There are indications of strain - the account of the gun incident, the reference to arguing about finances, the fact that the baby was over a year old and they still weren't married, the comment the mom says KB made about "I feel safe around PF now" or something to that effect, in relation to her gun? The hospitalization for anxiety and depression.

Yet PF never just ended the relationship and said he didn't want KB. Why? Why didn't he just say it's over? And he hid his baby from KK until last summer?

KB seems like a sweet, ambitious person. She was beautiful. Why didn't PF want her?

I note again that he's a man who apparently never moved out of his mother's home. Despite having a few adult relationships.

I mean I know they have a smallish ranch that he worked so that could explain that. Adults will stay on family farms to work them when there's a family business.

But there's something weird here I can't put my finger on exactly. Why the secrecy about not wanting to stay in the relationship with KB? Why the secrecy about the existence of his child, to KK, who he also never married and seemed to have no intention of becoming serious with?

I get this sense that he never loved any woman. That his loyalties were linked to his mother only. Until his child was born. But he kept KK as a hanger on for what she could do for him.

As to KB, maybe he knew it was odd not to want her. Maybe he was simply forestalling an official breakup for fear she would try to move back home or closer to her work with the baby.

I don't know. But it's strange how these two didn't live together and weren't married, there were some apparent difficulties but she felt comfortable enough with him to help him with his cows, to go to Thanksgiving dinner with him and to play a blindfolded candle scent game with him.

It will be interesting to hear how that's all fleshed out by prosecutors.

That text sent to CB, saying Kelsey had her gun back and felt safe with PF (a very weird thing to say, btw) was sent, IIRC, late Thursday. IOW, sent by PF after Kelsey was dead.

Why he strung Kelsey on was because Ma was attached to baby K. imo. Remember those custody papers filled out in August. Custody was a looming issue. Perhaps he never filed those because he knew there was no chance in hell so he decided to kill her, instead. The ONLY chance that baby K would ever have been not in her mother's custody was with Kelsey gone.

 

[MassGuy]

I think KK is afraid to actually tell a lie - she can't be sure exactly what LE has and she really really doesn't want to risk her great plea deal.

That said, I don't think she's above keeping quiet about some things, particularly if it's something she hasn't been specifically asked about.

I agree. If she is telling lies, they are ones that are impossible to verify.

Ones that she would be confident telling, without fear of exposure.

Her details regarding how this went down would be true, but she would save face at every opportunity.

If she lies about things material to the crime, her deal is in jeopardy. That’s why she told about those murder attempts, ones that made her look absolutely horrible.

She had already run her mouth to friends, and it was likely that law enforcement would be able to prove a lie.

 

[Artis]

Cop testifies woman told police Colorado man beat fiancee to death with a bat


"Kenney told police that Frazee had wrapped a sweater around Berreth's head, telling her he wanted her to guess the scent of candles as a ruse, before beating her to death with a baseball bat and stashing her body on a ranch. After she cleaned the house, Kenney said she went with Frazee to retrieve Berreth's body and watched as Frazee burned it on his property along with the wooden bat, Slater said."

So per KK via Slater

Thank you for clarifying. I didn't see that before I posted about it.

 

[ab01]

I think KK is afraid to actually tell a lie - she can't be sure exactly what LE has and she really really doesn't want to risk her great plea deal.

That said, I don't think she's above keeping quiet about some things, particularly if it's something she hasn't been specifically asked about.

I think when striking the plea deal it was probably done after LE could already prove that she wasn't there when KB was murdered. Cell pings, Survelience video they had of PF coming and going etc.

I think It's very probable that LE told her listen we know you wern't there when KB was murdered we will give you this deal.

You have no reason to not be truthful and if we find that you are not being truthful we will charge you accordingly and void the plea.

KK would have no reason to outright lie at this point as she would be risking possible LWOP or min 20yrs, when if she just tells the truth she gets a slap on the wrist.

Why on earth would she continue to lie?

ETA: Liars lie to benefit themselves why on earth would she lie to put herself where PF is. I just can't think of a logical reason. Just so she can save face? I think her lawyer would have told her honey its to late for all that....MOO

 

[ilovechili]

It is a small apartment and you can be much faster cleaning a stranger's place than your own home, partly because at someone else's place, there are no distractions.

She probably wiped the walls and floors with a bleach solution. If you think about it, that would take hours, but not days. She wiped surfaces - I believe Slater said he could see the film on some things like the TV, where it was evident she'd done a quick and sloppy cleanup.

She's been a nurse for a while, so she wouldn't be dealing with the gag factor that would have had me vomiting every 5 minutes. It wasn't exactly clear to me, but IIRC, PF specifically told her to clean Baby K's toys but KK said she tossed them. I hope PF wasn't actually suggesting she clean the toys for Baby K to play with again.

I see and appreciate your points and allowed for all of that. It still leaves many questions though and it is not just about the cleaning and there then would be much left to find if she was that sloppy. Yes, I would hope to he** he was not suggesting she clean the toys either to be kept for the baby either. So then no one wondered where all the baby's toys went? The books which were mentioned, and more. On top of it, as far as we know, KK never seen on video... The tote never seen loaded. The bags never seen loaded. As far as I recall. They went back for his truck, was she seen then? How odd. No apparent arguments. Strange case all of the way around without a doubt. Just asking what some experts are even discussing who note the same types of things. Sigh...

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

This has probably been mentioned but I just realized there were only six days between murder attempt #2 & #3. Did KK drive home to ID after the second attempt, just to turn around and come back a few days later? Dang, when they wanted to murder poor Kelsie, they really were determined. Apparently KK could just leave for CO at the drop of a hat. That’s so much driving....I can’t even imagine.