CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[ilovechili]

I agree. If she is telling lies, they are ones that are impossible to verify.

Ones that she would be confident telling, without fear of exposure.

Her details regarding how this went down would be true, but she would save face at every opportunity.

If she lies about things material to the crime, her deal is in jeopardy. That’s why she told about those murder attempts, ones that made her look absolutely horrible.

She had already run her mouth to friends, and it was likely that law enforcement would be able to prove a lie.

Lies of omission are something else I wonder about. If LE did not ask her a certain question, can she not later say I was not hiding that information, I entirely forgot or you did not ask and it not be necessarily a lie? She had a lot of time to think, lawyer up, get rid of burner phones and other things. And then, with many of her statements, she can always say I did not lie, that is what PF said to me about what he did, he is the one lying so can they that easily revoke a plea deal in those kinds of circumstances when they cannot prove a lie?

And that takes it back to a he said/she said unless there is a ton of corroborating evidence.

jmo and speculation.

 

[Artis]

IKR.

This is why I choose to believe she wanted her dead as much as PF did.

From her own admission we know she brought coffee to KB and I think it was a failed attempt to kill her right there. She claims she could not put drugs in the coffee but I dont believe her. Because if she did not have enough nerve to put drugs in the coffee then she had no reason to go up to KB's front door to give it to her in the first place.

I think the 3 solicitations were more like 3 failed attempts of murder.

And so when PF finally did the job himself then she gladly zoomed over there to join in the aftermath. I am even willing to bet that she made a deal with PF and had told PF in advance that if he killed KB then she would help do any cleanup tasks for him. That would explain his comments to her that "she has a mess to cleanup".

They are both evil to the core IMO.

This but I think the coffee trip was solely to check out the woman of whom she was so envious. Due to her wanting Kelsey dead, I also think she'd lift the lid of that plastic CONTAINER (not gonna say that other word) to see the result.

 

[QueenBofOB]

Horrible murder. KB's friend said PF was always mad about something. I wonder if Ma Frazee complained about money woes to him every day. She had no husband to complain to and she probably nagged him, but still KB was no burden to him financially. She paid her own way so why did they have that incident where he complained about money and she said maybe I should just shoot myself, pointing a gun to her head. Could this have triggered something in his dumb head to think about killing her. He sounds like he was a royal pain to KB.

I have my own suspicions that HE was the one who put the gun to Kelsey's head and threatened her. Something about that little tidbit, sounds off.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Lies of omission are something else I wonder about. If LE did not ask her a certain question, can she not later say I was not hiding that information, I entirely forgot or you did not ask and it not be necessarily a lie? She had a lot of time to think, lawyer up, get rid of burner phones and other things. And then, with many of her statements, she can always say I did not lie, that is what PF said to me about what he did, he is the one lying so can they that easily revoke a plea deal in those kinds of circumstances when they cannot prove a lie?

And that takes it back to a he said/she said unless there is a ton of corroborating evidence.

jmo and speculation.

Lies of omission? Comprable to his brother and his mother?

 

[ab01]

I'll be curious to see how the defense tries to refute some of the evidence against him.

Also if they while in fact try to present and alternative scenario of how KB was killed.

I mean can they really try to pin it on KK and not implicate PF while doing so?

I'm just curious as to what reasonable doubt they can provide that will change the fact that KB is dead and PF wanted her dead.

I mean even if you don't believe KK, is there enough reasonable doubt in this case to not convict?

I'm just trying to think of a scenario in which PF was not involved that is believable in the eyes of a jury.


I'm drawing a blank

 

[susiQ]

He appeared to take notes during some of Slater's testimony about what KK said.

Will he take the stand so he can have a chance to blacken KK's name (and possibly KB's) in revenge? Or will his lawyer persuade him that it would better to keep his mouth shut? He doesn't need to testify himself to try to trash KB, KK and her testimony. His lawyer can accomplish that without putting him on the stand.

Opinions, please. I'm assuming there's no chance of a plea bargain. It's all or nothing for PF - he's not paying for his attorney, so he has nothing to lose and probably little to gain personally.

My uneducated guess is: PF will plead not guilty and will NOT take the stand. His attorney knows that would be really, really dumb. And although PF is more than dumb, his attorney is not His atty can demolish KK's character with the evidence they have on her, and then some, even if it doesn't help his client. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I have my own suspicions that HE was the one who put the gun to Kelsey's head and threatened her. Something about that little tidbit, sounds off.

I dunno, I buy that story, as it was coming from CB via KB.

It corresponds to the timing of her seeking mental health help, and that custody document found in the Frazee home.

I could see PF encouraging her though; “You won’t do it!”

 

[PommyMommy]

I checked the docket and no hearing transcript yet. or exhibits.

You can order one for $3 per page or $3.75 per page, expedited. FYI, each hour produces approx 50 pages of transcript.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/PDF/JDF 4 - Transcript Request Form.pdf

 

[Mercedes]

I find it odd that LE has surveillance of PF coming and going from the house on Thanksgiving but there wasn't any mention of KK being caught on camera during the clean up.

It wasn’t KK’s preliminary hearing; it was PF’s.

 

[katydid23]

I will hide with you because here I go again...how did PF get the bat into KB’s townhouse?

In the tote?

'Hey, I have a surprise for ya....go get ready and I'll show you when we are ready to go...'

 

[Artis]

I have been bothered about the word "opportunity" used by KK regarding PF telling KK when to kill KB:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV26s26 seconds ago
On Nov. 3, Kenney was with family in Reno when Frazee called again with another “opportunity”. She told Slater she looked into airfare, but decided she couldn’t do it. @KOAA

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm 28s29 seconds ago
Nov. 3rd Krystal and Frazee spoke on the phone. Nov. 21st Krystal and Frazee spoke again. Krystal says he asked her what Krystal was doing on Thanksgiving. #kelseyberreth#PatrickFrazee

Both tweets are from Thread 39 page 78.

I have had trouble understanding Why there needs to be an "opportunity" given the lifestyles and work schedules of PF, KB, and baby K. Per KK, the "opportunity" is proposed by PF to KK although it would seem that KK's work schedule and child custody arrangements, plus living out of state, would be the determining factor as to "opportunity."

KK makes her 3 solo trips and failed murder attempts Sept. 23, October 15, and October 21. KB disappears 11/22. If KB had her period on 11/22 with tampons in her bathroom trash, then she likely also had her period 10/21 and 9/23 ? Is KB's period the "opportunity" ?

I had already wanted to know if LE is testing the blood found outside the bathroom to see if it is menstrual blood that KK planted.

How's anyone going to get so much blood out of some used tampons as to make it seep through the floor planks?

 

[PommyMommy]

Your post just brought something to mind. There was a statement "somewhere" possibly the AA that PF and KK had to return to KB's townhouse to pick up PF's truck. Right? I brought this up once before as that would put him at the townhouse at some point. Can anyone help with a link?

I remember it being brought up here but don't recall reading it anywhere else. It seems a little curious to me since they were communicating by phone that day during the time KK was cleaning. (Nothing would surprise me at this point, however.)
MOO

 

[ilovechili]

It’s damn fortunate for KK, and in the interest of justice for PF, that 800 miles separated them.

Had KK lived closer to PF, it would be a hell of a lot easier for the defense to spin a story that makes KK the murderer.

Fortunately for the prosecution, they can prove that PF committed this murder when KK was back in Idaho.

I truly believe that KK is capable of murder, even if she did chicken out on three prior occasions.

But being capable of murder is one thing, and having the opportunity to commit a murder is another.

If she was in Idaho, she could not have killed Kelsey.

I believe that the prosecution can slam the door in regards to KK being the killer, especially considering the fact that PF’s actions (lies, surveillance footage, cell activity) is documented.

You cannot separate PF from this crime, even if you say that KK is the killer.

This is the proof I want to see that in no way, no how could she have done this or been there, as to the actual murder, that it was done on the day said, etc. I would assume they would never make a case without having that locked down rock solid.

So far I have not seen enough to conclude that but that in no way means I know that proof does not exist either. Just simply that we have not seen it nor heard it.

She sure seems to be not on camera a lot...

 

[indicolite22]

Do we know why Kelsey purchased flowers and dip ingredients? Did they have plans to go to PF's house for Thanksgiving as a family? What about PF's claim that they went to Cracker Barrel that day? Has it been disproved? The flowers were left on the counter at Kelsey's house. If Kelsey left for Idaho, why would she leave them (and the cinnamon rolls) like that? How come the two people involved in this crime both missed simple details?

 

[Kinetix]

I have my own suspicions that HE was the one who put the gun to Kelsey's head and threatened her. Something about that little tidbit, sounds off.

KB put the gun to her head according to her mom. If she believed PF put the gun to her daughter’s head, she surely would’ve said so to the CBI agent.

 

[MassGuy]

This is the proof I want to see that in no way, no how could she have done this or been there, as to the actual murder, that it was done on the day said, etc. I would assume they would never make a case without having that locked down rock solid.

So far I have not seen enough to conclude that but that in no way means I know that proof does not exist either. Just simply that we have not seen it nor heard it.

She sure seems to be not on camera a lot...

The preliminary hearing was simply about proving to a judge that the case against PF should proceed.

There is a reason that KK got the deal she received, and that reason is that law enforcement was able to satisfy their concerns, that she wasn’t the killer.

We only heard a small part of the evidence against him, and very few details in regards to the overall case against him.

We got a picture though, one that involved a deliberate effort to mislead an investigation, an effort that failed spectacularly.

If these people couldn’t fool law enforcement there, there’s no way that they could fool them in other areas.

I do believe that the prosecution will be able to prove that KK was not in Colorado, and things like location data, phone calls, and text messages, will prove vital.

 

[Kapua]

KB put the gun to her head according to her mom. If she believed PF put the gun to her daughter’s head, she surely would’ve said so to the CBI agent.

IIRC, that was according to what PF told CB.

 

[jewelsmac]

You can order one for $3 per page or $3.75 per page, expedited. FYI, each hour produces approx 50 pages of transcript.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/PDF/JDF 4 - Transcript Request Form.pdf

that’s a lot of pages . I was going to suggest a certain currency raising website, that dare not to speak its name..but I know that will invoke the mods and I will get deleted.

 

[Artis]

I think the "heap" she observed was probably a combination of the melted down plastic and whatever was left of the body.
It was pretty stupid for PF to burn the whole container with the body in it, if that's what he did.
Hopefully it will make it much easier for LE to find the body, if what they are looking for is a large clump (my own word) of melted down plastic merged with remnants of bones or ash from the body. Imo

And those metal handles, if they were steel.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Your post just brought something to mind. There was a statement "somewhere" possibly the AA that PF and KK had to return to KB's townhouse to pick up PF's truck. Right? I brought this up once before as that would put him at the townhouse at some point. Can anyone help with a link?

I remember it, but sorry I don't know where it was mentioned at. I do think it had to have been in the affidavit or preliminary h. I couldn't figure it out when it was that they drove together from her townhouse.