CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Julia966]

I’m curious how KK had the time, money and opportunity to do so much travel.

For example: three 1600 mile round trips and two 900 mile round trips to Reno in less than 3 months. Idk if she drove to Reno, but 6,600 miles @ estimated 18mpg x approximately $3.00/gallon gas is $1100. If she was driving a 4wd suv through mountains and snow, it could be double that or more. Plus she claims a few hotel overnights, sonic (lol), arranging childcare with her ex, working FT, planning out her work schedule...she had a very busy, expensive autumn!

As a nurse, probably receiving child support and maybe a little income from her farm thing, with not a lot else going on in her life, I'd wager KK had more disposable income than PF. She could pony up for few trips to Colorado with little problem. Getting time off from work might have been an issue, but she wasn't gone longer than a few days at a time and could trade shifts. I doubt PF gave her a dime, except maybe a few bucks to hit the Sonic afterward.

 

[MsBetsy]

Very early on I seem to remember she did help find a dog and the neighbor brought over a baby gate? Will see if I can find that story - for now it is JMO

I remember that! So then Kelsey would have known KK was not the same neighbor...

 

[NWLady]

IIRC, KK said that she took the bags and sat them outside and then put them in her car. Just thinking that it is possible that the cadaver dog when it hit near Kelsey's car that maybe it hit there because that is where KK sat the bags. This is all JMO and thinking out loud but it seems as I remember a cadaver dog hit somewhere near Kelsey's car. But again, I could be wrong and not remembering it correctly, so forgive me if I don't have the story straight, so again, this is JMO.

 

[noel leon]

KB put the gun to her head according to her mom. If she believed PF put the gun to her daughter’s head, she surely would’ve said so to the CBI agent.

Again I do not believe this.Another Frazee lie.

 

[katydid23]

The post I replied to linked a source stating that Slater said CB told him Kelsey had told her that so I assume so. There was no mention of a text, I don't think. Maybe in a phone conversation?
I think it was what he said in court.

I have seen it written both ways. One article said that 'CB said KB told her...'

But a more specific article clarified that it was sent to her by text:

'Late Thanksgiving night, Cheryl Berreth said she received a text message from her daughter saying that Frazee had returned her gun and she had gone shooting that night. '

[from transcript]

 

[Deleted member 102539]

That's a good thought - but my, it would have to have been pretty bloody for cast off like that? I watched a netflix documentary that dealt with blood spatter. If they truly have all this blood evidence, they may be able to recreate the exact motions that caused her death possibly. JMO.

Dr. Mark Benecke, our international known GER allround-blood spatter expert (and more), would have been able to tell, how exactly the crime happened.
As of 1999, he works internationally on forensic cases as a freelance expert witness. He also teaches at various police academies and acts as a visiting professor to universities in Germany, England, Vietnam, Colombia, and the Philippines. (Wiki)

 

[Artis]

I have often read that familiar murderers generally have in their minds what they think are well thought out plans.

They obsess about them thinking about very minute details etc.

But when it comes down to do it adrenaline fear and panic make it hard to have any sense of rational thought.

They can't think straight, they panic and that is why they generally screw up the order of things they had all planned out and end up making very many mistakes.

The one thing about familiar murder is, not only do they have to commit the perfect crime.

But Also they are the first ones that police want to talk to.

So you better be an excellent liar and socialpath with detatchment from your crimes.

Thankfully not many are very good at looking at a seasoned police detective in the eyes and fooling them.

@christopherWatts for reference

Sociopaths, psychopaths, narcs and some of the other personality disordered mimic what they think is normal and appropriate human behavior and emotion. Many of them are really good at it, hence they can go decades before people figure out what they are. One thing I've noticed that none of them are good at is faking grief and worry. From no emotion (Scott Peterson being a great example), to over-acting to crocodile tears (Susan Smith), they always give themselves away.

I can't fathom planning a murder. That has to be hard. The stakes are high if you screw up. The only way I can see doing it with clear thinking is with having zero emotional interest, like a hitman, just doing a job. That kind of person would more likely to be methodical and not make mistakes. Rage, envy, revenge, etc, would cloud any logical thinking. I know it's creepy to think such things but when we say someone made stupid moves in the commission of a murder, it always begs the question of what would have been a well planned crime. I think that takes complete detachment.

 

[ajaylee]

Found it! BBM mine. It doesn't make sense. Reporting error?

• KK met PF at the Florissant Coneco Gas Station at 4:30 p.m. and they went to the Nash property. KK says PF backed the truck up to a large red barn.
• KK told cops she went back to Nash Ranch and helped PF retrieve KB’s body from the barn at Nash Ranch.
• PF used a ladder to climb this large haystack to get the tote and a plastic bag containing KB’s gun. A tractor was used to bring the tote down from the top of the stack, Slater says.
• With KB’s body in a Toyota Tacoma, they drive to PF’s property. There, he used gasoline and oil to burn the tote containing KB’s body, baseball bat and the trash bags from the crime scene.
• PF collected wood and begin to start a fire and begin to burn that black tote. The remains of KB were allegedly placed. KK says she never saw KB inside the tote but when the fire began to burn she saw a lump.
• Slater: KB’s body was burned while it was inside the tote. PF used gasoline and wood. Patrick used a faded red gas tank to pour gasoline on the black tote.
• Slater: KK did see SF come out to the porch to see what was going on.
• Slater: According to KK, PF “scooped up” KB’s remains. He planned to put them in the dump or toss them elsewhere.
• Slater: PF and KK drove back to the townhome to get PF’s truck.

 

[susiQ]

I can't remember exactly, but I think it was later. I recall thinking it didn't make sense because it might mean they took KK's car to Nash Ranch, which made no sense at all.

Exactly! That's what's got me confused too. Still looking for that statement.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

* dbm, because unnecessary

 

[Hatch]

It is the way it sounds, I agree. And it would almost make more sense. I can't remember why they had to go back for his truck to KB's either... But it was stated... So it sat there from 11/22 Thanksgiving or dates do not make sense or he went back as well at some point...

Here is the part about the truck: snipped from Tippy's Time Line at the beginning of every thread. This from Nov 24 th.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have seen it written both ways. One article said that 'CB said KB told her...'

But a more specific article clarified that it was sent to her by text:

'Late Thanksgiving night, Cheryl Berreth said she received a text message from her daughter saying that Frazee had returned her gun and she had gone shooting that night. '

[from transcript]

Yes, it was Slater who testified that Cheryl told him Kelsey felt safe now.
It disputes PF's reasoning for taking the gun from her, that she apparently held it to her head.
If Kelsey felt safer having a gun for protection it wouldn't make sense that she threatened to shoot herself with it. Imo

 

[susiQ]

Dr. Mark Benecke, our international known GER allround-blood spatter expert (and more), would have been able to tell, how exactly the crime happened.
As of 1999, he works internationally on forensic cases as a freelance expert witness. He also teaches at various police academies and acts as a visiting professor to universities in Germany, England, Vietnam, Colombia, and the Philippines. (Wiki)

True, BUT, KK went in there and altered the evidence. What was "blood spatter" is now just a freakin mess of smeared blood residue everywhere. She did this investigation irreparable harm.

 

[NWLady]

When it comes time for PF's trial, will the jury be made aware of KK's plea deal and/or what her current charge is?

 

[skycountry]

I was just reviewing the Affidavit again and the only descriptions of the blood were from KK with the exception of the results of the bathroom testing CBI did - para 27 which includes blood on the ceiling. I have thought for some time that he attacked her while she was in the bathroom - otherwise how in the world could blood be on that ceiling? I thought I heard other blood was found on the wood floor but can't seem to find that in the Affidavit. Even the blood she told them was on the fireplace was not confirmed in the Affidavit, just that the fireplace she described matched a picture they had. para 70. If there wasn't blood everywhere as she described, why would she embellish that aspect? JMO

I thought I read that CB, and her son found blood on the inside of the bathroom door handle too. I don't think PF told KK the truth about the actual murder, maybe this is their plan B, plant doubt. I don't trust these two, they are the same type of person, is why they have remained friends for almost 15 years.

 

[susiQ]

Found it! BBM mine. It doesn't make sense. Reporting error?

You're right! It doesn't make sense, at all!

 

[Hatch]

Here is the part about returning to the townhouse to get PF's truck. This is snipped from Tippy's timeline that is posted on every new thread. I am guilty of scrolling past it, but it has a lot of information.

 

[noel leon]

Late Thanksgiving night, Cheryl Berreth said she received a text message from her daughter saying that Frazee had returned her gun and she had gone shooting that night. -

never happened moo

 

[MsBetsy]

I have always wondered if PF gave his co-conspirator travel and gas money. If he did, would it be considered 'a lie' if she never mentioned it to LE?

Probably not, as it would be hard to prove. Just like they can't prove that she didnt intentionally leave evidence behind. Imo

 

[BingoBongo]

Sociopaths, psychopaths, narcs and some of the other personality disordered mimic what they think is normal and appropriate human behavior and emotion. Many of them are really good at it, hence they can go decades before people figure out what they are. One thing I've noticed that none of them are good at is faking grief and worry. From no emotion (Scott Peterson being a great example), to over-acting to crocodile tears (Susan Smith), they always give themselves away.

I can't fathom planning a murder. That has to be hard. The stakes are high if you screw up. The only way I can see doing it with clear thinking is with having zero emotional interest, like a hitman, just doing a job. That kind of person would more likely to be methodical and not make mistakes. Rage, envy, revenge, etc, would cloud any logical thinking. I know it's creepy to think such things but when we say someone made stupid moves in the commission of a murder, it always begs the question of what would have been a well planned crime. I think that takes complete detachment.

Yup. Not sure if this applies to PF, but I've seen them (NPD's, etc.) turn on, and turn off, those fake emotions so quickly it's astonishing. Normal people feeling true emotions, don't just shut them off at lightening speed.

One thing I do know applies to PF, is the propensity to lie. About everything. He began those lies long before he murdered KB, painting a picture of her that appears to be a set-up for her end, by her own hand.

It's part of the NPD's distancing process when they use those lies against an SO. I think it's important for us (and all those investigating him, and more importantly, the jury!) to remember...that every time we hear something about this case, we have to ask ourselves..."who was the orig. source of that info.?" Cause if it was PF, and maybe KK, chances are, it's not reality. Unless their statements are very plausible, and backed up with verifiable data, I ain't buying it.