CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[girlhasnoname]

Very early on I seem to remember she did help find a dog and the neighbor brought over a baby gate? Will see if I can find that story - for now it is JMO

It was a very long hearing - when we order transcripts they are routinely over $1000

Wow, alrighty then I guess I'll have to make due

 

[Kapua]

As a nurse, probably receiving child support and maybe a little income from her farm thing, with not a lot else going on in her life, I'd wager KK had more disposable income than PF. She could pony up for few trips to Colorado with little problem. Getting time off from work might have been an issue, but she wasn't gone longer than a few days at a time and could trade shifts. I doubt PF gave her a dime, except maybe a few bucks to hit the Sonic afterward.

Why would she be receiving child support when she and her ex-husband CL are sharing living quarters and she is working?

 

[NWLady]

T

Everyone see this? It seems more precise than the reporters tweets.
Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

Thank you for providing that link as there are things said there that are more specific than in the AA. Just as one example I've noted so far is that in the article (at the link above) it says "the cross-examination went on to detail the surveillance photos that captured Frazee entering and exiting Berreth's apartment. Adams said Frazee was not seen leaving with a black tote, and that he did not appear to have blood stains on his clothing."

On that same thought as above, the AA #12 says "an individual that matches the physical description of Frazee is captured on a neighbor's surveillance camera ...."

So I guess my point being is there is so much we don't know and there's so much that LE/investigators/prosecutor understandably have not brought forward yet at this point, but the above is just 1 sample of it going from "an individual that matches the physical description" to "Frazee entering and exiting.... and he did not appear to have blood stains on his clothing."

 

[BingoBongo]

Why would she be receiving child support when she and her ex-husband CL are sharing living quarters and she is working?

Their divorce decree on-line doesn't show anything about child support, but, I'm not sure if that is something normally listed.

 

[pcrum12]

IKR.

This is why I choose to believe she wanted her dead as much as PF did.

From her own admission we know she brought coffee to KB and I think it was a failed attempt to kill her right there. She claims she could not put drugs in the coffee but I dont believe her. Because if she did not have enough nerve to put drugs in the coffee then she had no reason to go up to KB's front door to give it to her in the first place.

I think the 3 solicitations were more like 3 failed attempts of murder.

And so when PF finally did the job himself then she gladly zoomed over there to join in the aftermath. I am even willing to bet that she made a deal with PF and had told PF in advance that if he killed KB then she would help do any cleanup tasks for him. That would explain his comments to her that "she has a mess to cleanup".

They are both evil to the core IMO.

THIS^^

 

[ilovechili]

It goes to show you there are different tweets or some have been corrected because I understood it I thought as she went the night before Thanksgiving (no idea alone or not), and that it came from a call between KB and CB. So quite different accounts. That audio in that courtroom may be the cause...

The preliminary hearing was simply about proving to a judge that the case against PF should proceed.

There is a reason that KK got the deal she received, and that reason is that law enforcement was able to satisfy their concerns, that she wasn’t the killer.

We only heard a small part of the evidence against him, and very few details in regards to the overall case against him.

We got a picture though, one that involved a deliberate effort to mislead an investigation, an effort that failed spectacularly.

If these people couldn’t fool law enforcement there, there’s no way that they could fool them in other areas.

I do believe that the prosecution will be able to prove that KK was not in Colorado, and things like location data, phone calls, and text messages, will prove vital.

Interestingly enough, I just reread the affidavit for the 3rd of 4th time and some of my thoughts were put to rest. Each time I pick up something else, notice what may be missing, etc. I am now satisfied with some things and believe there is likely more. However, I now have a new question or two and a severe headache from trying to tie it all together.

One question is did KK live in Utah at the time of these murders when she referenced it as home (paragraph 35)? I realize this is her lying period of time to LE but it has also been referenced somewhere that she had things for cleaning from painting their new home. I have always assumed when seeing PF she was driving from Colorado, the 12 hour trip. Utah was also the last place she turned on KB's phone allegedly. Did they just recently move to Idaho?

So it put much to rest, hinted at other things unknown and more evidence which was encouraging but created new questions. I get that not all goes into such a document but I am always trying to connect dots

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I remember that! So then Kelsey would have known KK was not the same neighbor...

Not necessarily. If KB returned the dog to a family and only one spouse was home, she may not have met the wife.

 

[Artis]

Thank you for the clarification! That means though that KB told her mom at some point that she did not feel safe around PF, right? Otherwise, why would he text that? I wonder what that was about.

The custody issues is an interesting one. In CO, his chances of getting equal custody were high as they seemed to be sharing the care of the child. When mom was flying, baby was with dad, etc. It seems the baby was with him a lot. And if she moved, he could stand a chance of being awarded primary custody.

Unless there is something we don't know about.

Someone proposed a theory about PF panicking about the relationship and wanting to get out of it, maybe not with a confrontation. It's intriguing. He did not want to face a break up and I think he didn't want to face child custody court action. Why?

I continue to suspect that he had disordered thinking about his child and his relationship. I suspect he was enmeshed with the baby, saw her as his possession and saw her as having no needs or wants aside from his own. So no right to a relationship with her mom.

I think he felt no love for KB, wanted her out of the picture but did not want to share the baby with his ex at all.

And he did not want to risk having a court order giving him less than equal time. Maybe he was so enmeshed and entitled that a court order for equal custody would've enraged him as well - like how dare a court tell him when HE can spend time with his own kid?

That's my feeling as to why he killed KB. But it is weird.

My impression is that their custody arrangement was informal and predicated upon Kelsey's work schedule and whatever worked for PF and Kelsey. From what was written about the unfiled custody papers, it sounded like he was going for sole custody. I was thinking not of her leaving the state (in that scenario) but still living there and him thinking he could take baby K from her, be the sole decision maker and have baby K live at the ranchette full time. I don't know what it's like in Colorado but where I live (Michigan) no court would award sole custody to a father with a fit mother living right there. Shared custody, yes, but he already had that and more, it sounds like. I'll bet he was tired of having to screw around baby exchange meetups, too. So inconvenient when baby K was perfectly fine with Ma who, I'll bet, was on his about custody. Probably that sister, too. I agree with you that the baby would be nothing more than his property. What does he care about baby K and her relationship with her mommy because she's a Frazee and that's it. In his mind, he's the boss of everything.

I think you'd asked about why he didn't tell KK about Kelsey sooner. My answer would be because he didn't have to.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yes, love this analogy!

Because he's a coward.

 

[Artis]

Thank you for the clarification! That means though that KB told her mom at some point that she did not feel safe around PF, right? Otherwise, why would he text that? I wonder what that was about.

The custody issues is an interesting one. In CO, his chances of getting equal custody were high as they seemed to be sharing the care of the child. When mom was flying, baby was with dad, etc. It seems the baby was with him a lot. And if she moved, he could stand a chance of being awarded primary custody.

Unless there is something we don't know about.

Someone proposed a theory about PF panicking about the relationship and wanting to get out of it, maybe not with a confrontation. It's intriguing. He did not want to face a break up and I think he didn't want to face child custody court action. Why?

I continue to suspect that he had disordered thinking about his child and his relationship. I suspect he was enmeshed with the baby, saw her as his possession and saw her as having no needs or wants aside from his own. So no right to a relationship with her mom.

I think he felt no love for KB, wanted her out of the picture but did not want to share the baby with his ex at all.

And he did not want to risk having a court order giving him less than equal time. Maybe he was so enmeshed and entitled that a court order for equal custody would've enraged him as well - like how dare a court tell him when HE can spend time with his own kid?

That's my feeling as to why he killed KB. But it is weird.

Forgot to ask, Gitana: you mentioned being in family law. I'll bet you've had to deal with these "high conflict" personalities like Frazee. My sister was married to one (long ago, thank God) and it was terrible when they split and their kids were minors because she got little support from the court. Have you dealt with cases where one parent was a manipulating and volatile personality? I think I'd rather be a real estate attorney!

 

[Artis]

I agree. I think he would’ve wanted her to see it. Proof of what he was capable of, more than just bloody crime scene. jmo

Show and tell (and I see her into it). It may also be why M claims KK said he was so evil. Surely blood wouldn't shock her but seeing someone bludgeoned to death might.

 

[Aydrianna523]

T

Thank you for providing that link as there are things said there that are more specific than in the AA. Just as one example I've noted so far is that in the article (at the link above) it says "the cross-examination went on to detail the surveillance photos that captured Frazee entering and exiting Berreth's apartment. Adams said Frazee was not seen leaving with a black tote, and that he did not appear to have blood stains on his clothing."

On that same thought as above, the AA #12 says "an individual that matches the physical description of Frazee is captured on a neighbor's surveillance camera ...."

So I guess my point being is there is so much we don't know and there's so much that LE/investigators/prosecutor understandably have not brought forward yet at this point, but the above is just 1 sample of it going from "an individual that matches the physical description" to "Frazee entering and exiting.... and he did not appear to have blood stains on his clothing."

Wonder if he had clothes to change into there...

 

[ilovechili]

Here is the part about the truck: snipped from Tippy's Time Line at the beginning of every thread. This from Nov 24 th.

Thank you so much.

The info leaves only a couple of possibilities and I am not going to go there at the moment. A Toyota. Truck at KB's.

 

[ajaylee]

My impression is that their custody arrangement was informal and predicated upon Kelsey's work schedule and whatever worked for PF and Kelsey. From what was written about the unfiled custody papers, it sounded like he was going for sole custody. I was thinking not of her leaving the state (in that scenario) but still living there and him thinking he could take baby K from her, be the sole decision maker and have baby K live at the ranchette full time. I don't know what it's like in Colorado but where I live (Michigan) no court would award sole custody to a father with a fit mother living right there. Shared custody, yes, but he already had that and more, it sounds like. I'll bet he was tired of having to screw around baby exchange meetups, too. So inconvenient when baby K was perfectly fine with Ma who, I'll bet, was on his about custody. Probably that sister, too. I agree with you that the baby would be nothing more than his property. What does he care about baby K and her relationship with her mommy because she's a Frazee and that's it. In his mind, he's the boss of everything.

I think you'd asked about why he didn't tell KK about Kelsey sooner. My answer would be because he didn't have to.

This.

IIRC, KK visited PF in August, shortly after she found out about KB and Baby K. She took baby things for Baby K.

I think that was her snarky way of bringing the subject up - "Oh, btw, here's some gifts for your little daughter (that you did not tell me about and you didn't tell me about her mother, either"). Just kind of a p*ssed, catty thing to do. She told Slater PF wouldn't discuss it - I took that to mean that he wouldn't talk about meeting KB, helping her move to Colorado, and obviously having a child with her.

 

[ajaylee]

Wonder if he had clothes to change into there...

I wondered about his footwear. KK says there were bloody footprints all over the condo. He wouldn't have wanted to track that outside. I wonder if LE tested any of his footwear for traces. That would be very hard to explain away.

 

[PommyMommy]

It goes to show you there are different tweets or some have been corrected because I understood it I thought as she went the night before Thanksgiving (no idea alone or not), and that it came from a call between KB and CB. So quite different accounts. That audio in that courtroom may be the cause...

Interestingly enough, I just reread the affidavit for the 3rd of 4th time and some of my thoughts were put to rest. Each time I pick up something else, notice what may be missing, etc. I am now satisfied with some things and believe there is likely more. However, I now have a new question or two and a severe headache from trying to tie it all together.

One question is did KK live in Utah at the time of these murders when she referenced it as home (paragraph 35)? I realize this is her lying period of time to LE but it has also been referenced somewhere that she had things for cleaning from painting their new home. I have always assumed when seeing PF she was driving from Colorado, the 12 hour trip. Utah was also the last place she turned on KB's phone allegedly. Did they just recently move to Idaho?

So it put much to rest, hinted at other things unknown and more evidence which was encouraging but created new questions. I get that not all goes into such a document but I am always trying to connect dots

KK lived in Idaho at the time of the murder. She went through Utah on her way home and Salt Lake City was one of the places she turned KB's phone on.

Google Maps

 

[Jason Kendrick]

I don't believe PF loves or cares for ANY woman. I do believe that he cares about his money. The wrongful death lawsuit states "custody". I think PF knew he was going to have to pay child support for 18 years and fought that idea everyway he could. When he realized he was not going to manipulate KB. He eliminated her. He did not love his daughter, he didn't want the financial burden that was about to happen

 

[katydid23]

Wonder if he had clothes to change into there...

he may have packed some clean clothes in the tote...

 

[susiQ]

Thank you so much.

The info leaves only a couple of possibilities and I am not going to go there at the moment. A Toyota. Truck at KB's.

Oh, come on! Let's go there Why did they have to pick up his truck at KB's on the 24th? Please? I want to know!
My first question would be, "which truck?"

He has a red one (taken by LE), he had a blue/green one (when he was apprehended) and if I'm not mistaken he took a white one with a trailer to the dump with his buddies.

 

[Artis]

I dunno, I buy that story, as it was coming from CB via KB.

It corresponds to the timing of her seeking mental health help, and that custody document found in the Frazee home.

I could see PF encouraging her though; “You won’t do it!”

Sure enough, that came from her mom:

During the investigation, Berreth’s mother told Slater that Frazee had taken her daughter’s gun because the couple was arguing about finances. During one of those arguments in 2017, Berreth said, “Maybe I would be better off dead,” and pointed the gun to her head.

Patrick Frazee to face trial after preliminary hearing

It's not clear, to me, whether Kelsy told CB that or PF did but I'd think CB would have asked Kelsey about it so it must have been happened. How terribly sad that Kelsey was driven to such despair.