CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Yellow Rose]

I thought they eventually realized that there was enough blood to have made the determination that there was no way KB could still be alive.

 

[MsBetsy]

I too am baffled by the menstrual blood idea.

But I didn't get the impression there was a significant volume of blood. In fact, LE didn't see any blood the first time they went through the house. I had the impression that blood was found in several places and in different rooms, but not that there was a large quantity.

In my opinion, there had to have been a large amount for it to have seeped through the hardwood floor. That was probably where her body was, as that's where the most blood would be.
Also, KK spent 3 hours cleaning up the blood, so what they found was only what was left. Imo

 

[Hatfield]

All good points for him doing the murder. She still could’ve conspired with him to commit it. “You kill her;I’ll clean up.” But she won’t admit to it so we get her story? (Not sure what I believe yet; just listing a possibility.)

JMO
I do think they had a deal that if PF ended up killing her then she had to do the cleanup and even help with the body. Totally explains PF statement about "you have a mess to cleanup" like she owed him that. And explains why she went to move the body from the Nash farm to PF house to burn it because she talked him out of the original agreement that she would take care of the body. She refused to take it to Idaho like she most likely agreed to originally.

JMO where I am at for the moment.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I just want to throw an idea out and see what you all think. I have been following this case from the beginning, though some days I cannot post. Everyone wonders what PF saw in KK, how they manage a relationship and so on.

KK made the comment to MS, IF you believe MS, that she believed PF may have killed before.

Could that be the tie that binds them? Maybe he actually did kill someone and she knows or maybe they did it together or maybe it was at her behest?

I am not trying to start a rumor. Sometimes there are little truths in what people say. Maybe when KK told MS she thought he killed before, maybe she knows he did.

I don’t have a clue. But I do wonder if during this investigation LE will take the time to examine this idea and look closely into their past.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I too am baffled by the menstrual blood idea.

But I didn't get the impression there was a significant volume of blood. In fact, LE didn't see any blood the first time they went through the house. I had the impression that blood was found in several places and in different rooms, but not that there was a large quantity.

I assume it would take a significant quantity to seep down into the floor boards, though.

 

[Hatfield]

I thought they eventually realized that there was enough blood to have made the determination that there was no way KB could still be alive.

Thats what I think too after they finally went back to KB's house and lit up the place at night with Luminol. We have all seen those types of videos on TV where when LE sprays the whole wall and floors with the stuff and if it is dark in the room then entire areas light up and glow even if attempted cleanup happened.

In the missing Libby Squire case going on right now in the UK we saw LE go into an apartment with rolls of black material to cover all the windows to make it dark inside to do the luminol testing. There was pictures of LE going into the home with large rolls of black material and someone figured out what that was all about.

In link below if you scroll down you can see when its dark inside how much better luminol or Bluestar shows up.

Evidence Technology Magazine - Photography of Luminol and Bluestar Enhanced Bloodstains

 

[Julia966]

In my opinion, there had to have been a large amount for it to have seeped through the hardwood floor. That was probably where her body was, as that's where the most blood would be.
Also, KK spent 3 hours cleaning up the blood, so what they found was only what was left. Imo

Yes, you're right, there was more before the clean-up. What I meant was, what was left, was not a large quantity. I could be wrong, of course, that was my impression only.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, you're right, there was more before the clean-up. What I meant was, what was left, was not a large quantity. I could be wrong, of course, that was my impression only.

Yes, it's hard to know how much they found. They took a lot of large pieces out of there. Someone posted what the blood would look like using blue star after it had been cleaned up.
My guess is they have large sections of the walls, ceilings, and flooring showing the blood spread all throughout. Imo

 

[Hatfield]

Yes, it's hard to know how much they found. They took a lot of large pieces out of there. Someone posted what the blood would look like using blue star after it had been cleaned up.
My guess is they have large sections of the walls, ceilings, and flooring showing the blood spread out throughout. Imo

There was one case I recall where the carpet on top had a smaller area detected by Luminol and when LE pulled the carpet up and retested the padding below it then it showed the extent of how much blood really happened.

If anyone has had dogs that were not trained to go pee outside very well then you can relate to how sometimes the top of the carpet doesnt seem too bad but as you squish down to try to clean the carpet then you keep soaking up more and more urine from the padding underneath.

I agree that LE found much more blood stains in some places once they really started to look better. Whether it was between hardwood flooring or other places.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I suppose all we really know is that LE found enough evidence to state with confidence that she is dead. We are only assuming this evidence is "blood of sufficient volume" but that is only because there has been no official mention of any other evidence "incompatible with life". But there well may be, that we just don't know about. I certainly would not be able to look at blood spatters and spills and make an informed guess about the quantity -- all I know is that a small amount of blood can still make a big mess.

 

[Hatch]

It sounds a bit Amish to me. Here in Ohio they have that Pennsylvania Dutch accent

Edit/add
I’ve never spent time out west. Do Mormons have an accent?

Depends on their location. I think we all pick up a little accent from our associates.

 

[Hatch]

I too am baffled by the menstrual blood idea.

But I didn't get the impression there was a significant volume of blood. In fact, LE didn't see any blood the first time they went through the house. I had the impression that blood was found in several places and in different rooms, but not that there was a large quantity.

IMO it was noted there were tampons in the trash , either to refer to KB not being pregnant, or to state there was more blood found other than menstral.

 

[Dave F.]

I assume it would take a significant quantity to seep down into the floor boards, though.

Anyone with real tongue and groove hardwood floors that has ever had to housebreak a dog can testify that body fluids remain on the surface of the boards until cleaning. Floor wax or acrylic shine tends to cap the minute gaps between boards. Household cleaners will remove the wax cap and drive the stain into the cracks, and bleach will send it deep into the tongue and groove. A very small amount of blood would spread quite a lot, in this process. IMO

 

[Noharg]

“Fourth Judicial District Judge Scott Sells ruled Tuesday that evidence was sufficient to merit a murder trial for Frazee, who remains held in the Teller County jail without bond. A trial likely will be scheduled when Frazee returns to enter a plea March 4.”


https://gazette.com/news/patrick-frazee-allegedly-had-blindfolded-kelsey-berreth-bludgeoned-her-with/article_acf2c29e-34c1-11e9-9cbe-ffdd4f88d281.html

Anyone think a trial date will actually be set Monday?

BBM

 

[Dave F.]

I've got a good friend from Nacogdoches and it's similar but different, I agree. Lotta twang. I've never heard anyone from Colorado who sounds that way. Maybe "old Colorado"?

Maybe. You are certainly no where near the first person that has ever made that observation, IMO

 

[Dave F.]

“Fourth Judicial District Judge Scott Sells ruled Tuesday that evidence was sufficient to merit a murder trial for Frazee, who remains held in the Teller County jail without bond. A trial likely will be scheduled when Frazee returns to enter a plea March 4.”


https://gazette.com/news/patrick-frazee-allegedly-had-blindfolded-kelsey-berreth-bludgeoned-her-with/article_acf2c29e-34c1-11e9-9cbe-ffdd4f88d281.html

Anyone think a trial date will actually be set Monday?

BBM

Sure, the first time. IMO

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Why didn't the security camera record KK entering or leaving Kelsey's duplex? If the security camera erased dated recordings, it should have erased Patrick's recording first as KK allegedly went to Kelsey's apartment 2 days after Patrick killed Kelsey.

Why didn't the security camera capture someone entering and exiting Kelsey's Toyota? Someone with cadaverine on their socks entered and exited KK's Toyota and left their socks inside the car. A cadaver dog hit on Kelsey's Toyota and the socks lit up with a reactive agent.

Who was the person in the truck outside Kelsey's home on Thanksgiving? Who was the utility person near her duplex? Did these individuals wear a ball cap or hard hat to disguise their long hair?

Remember that KK had been using burner phones for months.
Someone using Patrick's phone called KK's personal phone in Idaho on the date Kelsey was allegedly killed. KK could have used Patrick's phone to call her own phone which she left with an Idaho friend. One of KK's friends even admitted she previously provided a false alibi for KK.

I want to know if KK's dad and Meghan, who KK previously used as an alibi, are the only witnesses stating KK was in Idaho when Kelsey was murdered. Meghan is clearly an untrustworthy witness. KK's dad might also lie for her.

Until it is released that LE tracked KK's burner phone traveling to Colorado on Nov 24th, I have to believe KK was at Kelsey's duplex with Patrick and the baseball bat.

 

[Dave F.]

I can assure you that "old Colorado" people do have a distinct accent, and it does strongly resemble the Nacadoches, Texas accent. It is almost impossible to tell the difference between "old Colorado" and Port Arthur, Texas. When excited, a person from old Colorado sounds just like Janis Joplin speaking.
That is a linguistic observation that I have heard many times, from many different people. Personally, I think we all sound like Morgan Freeman. IMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

“Fourth Judicial District Judge Scott Sells ruled Tuesday that evidence was sufficient to merit a murder trial for Frazee, who remains held in the Teller County jail without bond. A trial likely will be scheduled when Frazee returns to enter a plea March 4.”


https://gazette.com/news/patrick-frazee-allegedly-had-blindfolded-kelsey-berreth-bludgeoned-her-with/article_acf2c29e-34c1-11e9-9cbe-ffdd4f88d281.html

Anyone think a trial date will actually be set Monday?

BBM

Quite possibly. But I am following another trial closely and the date has moved three times. And it is a smaller case. ( triangle love connection where the boyfriend killed the victim, he said she was spreading rumors about him sleeping with the triangle other girl) and he later burned her body, dumped the body in water after burning and spent the evening with the triangle other girlfriend..savannah gold case here)

Found Deceased - FL - Savannah Gold, 21, Jacksonville, 2 Aug 2017 *Arrest*

So I think with a high-profile case, any date that is set will be delayed at least once or twice or three times due to depositions needing to be made, not enough time to review new information that may be gleaned later on Etc.

Bottom line, In my opinion, at least two delays. It will not happen at that time that they set in the near future.

 

[ab01]

Why didn't the security camera record KK entering or leaving Kelsey's duplex? If the security camera erased dated recordings, it should have erased Patrick's recording first as KK allegedly went to Kelsey's apartment 2 days after Patrick killed Kelsey.

Why didn't the security camera capture someone entering and exiting Kelsey's Toyota? Someone with cadaverine on their socks entered and exited KK's Toyota and left their socks inside the car. A cadaver dog hit on Kelsey's Toyota and the socks lit up with a reactive agent.

Who was the person in the truck outside Kelsey's home on Thanksgiving? Who was the utility person near her duplex? Did these individuals wear a ball cap or hard hat to disguise their long hair?

Remember that KK had been using burner phones for months.
Someone using Patrick's phone called KK's personal phone in Idaho on the date Kelsey was allegedly killed. KK could have used Patrick's phone to call her own phone which she left with an Idaho friend. One of KK's friends even admitted she previously provided a false alibi for KK.

I want to know if KK's dad and Meghan, who KK previously used as an alibi, are the only witnesses stating KK was in Idaho when Kelsey was murdered. Meghan is clearly an untrustworthy witness. KK's dad might also lie for her.

Until it is released that LE tracked KK's burner phone traveling to Colorado on Nov 24th, I have to believe KK was at Kelsey's duplex with Patrick and the baseball bat.

The security camera likely has a motion detector and was probably aimed more toward the neighbors parking area. Imo it’s amazing that it picked up any footage at all.

I don’t believe LE has said much about the utility worker, I think if they thought he played a role it would have been presented.

I believe that kk was having thanksgiving with her family, I don’t believe multiple witnesses would all present an alibi for such a serious crime.

Lying for a friend to a ex husband about kk whereabouts while having, what the friend believed was an affair. That’s a little different than and alibi for murder.

I’m not sure I feel right saying that her father would alibi kk for murder, as far as we know he is a victim as per TOS and should be treated as such.