CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Artis]

From what I have read modern smartphones do not use the sim card for any type of storage. I know older phones would store contacts and sms text messages to the sim card but only incoming messages not outgoing messages. But many smart phones such as and iphone only store data to the internal storage and icloud. The sim card on iphones for example is only used to store Customer phone number and billing data.

What Is the SIM Card in the iPhone?

ETA: I'm not real familiar with other brands of phones so it may be possible that some android devices may still use sim cards for storage.

I thought the SIM card was the equivalent of a PC's hard drive. Shows what I know (or don't)! So, you're saying a or some cell phones have a hard drive (only term I know) that is not the SIM card. Is it a little chip?

 

[Artis]

So at this point both KK and PF each had 2 regular smart phones and we have learned of at least 2 burner phones. Is this correct ?

Beats me but what stands out is that both of them used their own smartphones which tracked all of their movements.

 

[ab01]

I thought the SIM card was the equivalent of a PC's hard drive. Shows what I know (or don't)! So, you're saying a or some cell phones have a hard drive (only term I know) that is not the SIM card. Is it a little chip?

correct they are different from a micro sd card which is used as an extra storage chip. A sim card has info preloaded to it by a cell provider that allows for a device to be activated on a specific carrier network.

 

[ab01]

Beats me but what stands out is that both of them used their own smartphones which tracked all of their movements.

They probably even carried them around together, which allowed LE to easily identify them....

wait surely they couldn't have been that ummm ahhh unwise? ahhh nevermind

 

[Artis]

Something else has been bothering me from a mom’s point of view. Why are all of these friends of PF stating he was the primary caregiver? I have this unsettling feeling that he was taking KF as much as he possibly could to keep her away from KB. Was she trying to appease him by allowing this? Is this showing the type of person he really was... was he controlling their relationship through dissociation with the baby? Then lies and lies and says she is a horrible mother and abusive when she was really just trying to make him happy. Oof!!

People reported he took the baby with on his farrier jobs. To those who knew him, it would look like the baby was always with with. Then tells people has custody. With Kelsey working days, it could certainly have looked, to those who saw PF during the day, that he was primary caregiver. Without knowing and/or seeing Kelsey around, it would make sense that it seemed that way.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

I Agree. IMO he did set KK up throughout the entire “murder affair”, by default of assigning her to specific jobs. For example, in asking her to kill, he (IMO) intentionally set her up as the jealous side-girlfriend who would take the fall for him, by deafault, if she got caught. He could’ve involved anyone else but he chose her. People who convince or hire a person into killing someone are setting them up! PLUS he sent her right into the crime scene right after the murder (tho she was smart to cover her prints with hospital garb) PLUS he asked her to drive the tote with a dead body in it back to ID!?! PLUS he was quoted as saying he felt railroaded. Could that have meant “Hey people you better be looking at KK.” Kk was likely complicit and possibly had more mastermind behind it all than what has come out so far, but he still set her up, IMO.

These reasons--implicating KKL--make some sense for the series of weird events / choices, when they don't make much sense otherwise. Maybe murder by bludgeoning and spreading blood everywhere was designed to put KKL in the murder scene at KB's condo for the better part of a day, increasing the likelihood of her being the one charged with murder. This may have been PF's next-best plan after failing to get KKL to commit the murder herself. According to KKL's account, she did not seem to be expecting the horrific scene she walked into, and probably hadn't expected to have to spend the amount of time necessary to clean it thoroughly. If she had known what to expect and the cleaning time involved, maybe she would have stopped at Sonic first. MOO.

 

[v0x]

I thought the SIM card was the equivalent of a PC's hard drive. Shows what I know (or don't)! So, you're saying a or some cell phones have a hard drive (only term I know) that is not the SIM card. Is it a little chip?

Google is your friend here. SIM card - Wikipedia

 

[OldLadyBlues]

We are you usually in agreement in thinking, but I'm going to have to disagree somewhat....

I think after the trial and her testimony, and prison time if any, KK will be back in 'business as usual mode'. She doesn't think she truly did something evil, mean ole' PF made her do it, what's a poor girl to do?? <batting eyelashes> No remorse or empathy from KK at all IMO. Her brief 10 second fake tear cry came during the phase when the judge was specifically addressing her sentencing guidelines. GMAB

I see her standing tall and head held high, looking for another co-dependent nut job she can reel in and I wouldn't rule out another run in with the legal system in the future for Miss KK.

MOO
ETA: Change word to phase

Here's the thing that someone maybe forgot to tell KK. I've seen it time and time again that you just don't want to get on the LE's radar. Once you're on it, you're on it and chances you will catch another charge for something get pretty high. It must be the magic of that first arrest IMHO.

 

[Artis]

Oh, hold up here. With respect to KK telling LE that PF wanted this to look a suicide, that doesn't jibe with what PF told Adams from WPPD. This from the recorded phone call between Adams and PF:


“She was sane...” He says he tried to tell her everyone has bumps in the road, and that she wasn’t suicidal. He says she “just had enough of the arrangement.” @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Thread by @SamKraemerTV: "We’ve made it to Cripple Creek. The preliminary hearing for State of Colorado vs. Patrick Frazee starts in a little under 90 minutes. I’ll t […]" #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney #ParrickFrazee

Hmmm.

 

[k-mac]

I'm guessing Ma did not like Kelsey because she was was baby K's mother and the main obstacle to baby K being all theirs. Further, I doubt Ma liked any women PF might have brought around.

I have a feeling she liked kk

 

[MassGuy]

Oh, hold up here. With respect to KK telling LE that PF wanted this to look a suicide, that doesn't jibe with what PF told Adams from WPPD. This from the recorded phone call between Adams and PF:


“She was sane...” He says he tried to tell her everyone has bumps in the road, and that she wasn’t suicidal. He says she “just had enough of the arrangement.” @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Thread by @SamKraemerTV: "We’ve made it to Cripple Creek. The preliminary hearing for State of Colorado vs. Patrick Frazee starts in a little under 90 minutes. I’ll t […]" #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney #ParrickFrazee

Hmmm.

Yeah, but this is a subtle way of doing it.

He thinks he’s smarter than the average bear, and knows that it’s better to allude to suicide, than to come out and say it.

The text to himself, that said “do you even love me anymore?” was intended to get that message across.

 

[Choochoobella]

Has there been any new info suggesting what PF may have been doing in the townhome for 2+ hours after he returned from Walmart?

He'd been cleaning himself up as suggested by the AA, I wouldn't think baby K would have had blood on her as she was in the back in a playpen. So he does the deed, wipes himself off with baby wipes and then what? Probably on her computer, phone accessing her FB and emails IMO.

Since KB was on PF's family cell plan <oh the irony there> I'm sure he had access to her call logs and activity, but having her phone gave him access to emails and FB . Still doesn't explain all that time to me, especially considering MamaF was waiting at the Franch for TG dinner.

MOO

Well, thanks to KK, we know that Einstein Frazee attempted to clean the terribly bloody scene with baby wipes. That had to have killed some time.

Based on KK's testimony that the scene was "horrific" when she arrived, we can assume PF didn't do such a good job.



Details of alleged gruesome bloody cleanup revealed in case against fiancé accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Liars often give TMI as they try to create a believable story.

The interesting part will be how many of these embellishments KK will actually remember on the stand.
MOO, MOO (and laughing)

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

Well, thanks to KK, we know that Einstein Frazee attempted to clean the terribly bloody scene with baby wipes. That had to have killed some time.

Based on KK's testimony that the scene was "horrific" when she arrived, we can assume PF didn't do such a good job.
Details of alleged gruesome bloody cleanup revealed in case against fiancé accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

Perhaps he used the wipes to spread the blood around and make even more "mess" for KKL to "get down here" and "clean up," and not really as an attempt on his part to clean. Was the horrific scene he created intentional, or just the result of narcissistic rage and stupidity? Maybe, at some point, the "method to his madness" will be revealed. MOO.

 

[Choochoobella]

It is probably nothing but from the affidavit they exchanged the baby in the alley behind KB's. They feel this is confirmed because he was then seen at Wal-Mart with the baby carrier.
He then in fairly short order is seen back at KB's on video entering the front. This can be determined from paragraphs 10 and onward in the affidavit. I can't quite make sense of this.

Was he expected back? Why pick the child up out back if the two of you are getting along, he did not enter the home? If he was expected back, why would he grab the baby first just to take on a shopping errand? Per the affidavit, they feel it confirms an exchange occurred. If the baby was indeed exchanged for visitation, then no plans existed between KB and PF and what was he doing back there? People do not generally haul a baby around for an errand if the other parent is home and one is headed right back there if they did have plans on the other hand. If that is what he was doing, then it would not be an exchange of the baby for visitation most likely.

I have no idea where I am going with this other than something about it does not make sense to me. I am not questioning the affidavit so much as what was going on.

I'm so glad you brought this up! This has been bothering me ever since I read the affidavit! Like you, this order of events makes no sense to me.

However, I've wondered about a few things that make more sense than the candle-sniffing "research" PF claims to have conducted on KB as a prelude to hitting her with a bat.

KB's mom mentioned that she was surprised to see how KB looked on the Safeway video: hair up in a bun, no makeup, didn't look like her usual put-together self. I'm guessing KB hadn't had her shower yet when she ran out to Safeway to get the dip ingredients. KB figures she'll take her shower after PF picks up baby K. Maybe things go down like this:

PF picks up baby K. KB says she's going to go take a shower.
PF sees his opportunity. He goes to Walmart for just a few minutes. Does he buy the bat then?
He's back at KB's right away. He lets himself into her house, puts baby K in the back room and enters the bathroom with the bat.
He attacks KB in the shower. This is the room where LE finds quite a bit of blood evidence that KK missed during her clean-up.
KB never saw it coming: no sweater over her head or candle-sniffing game. Why would she engage in that anyway? Things are tense between KB and PF. She's not about to let him put a sweater over her head for any reason.

 

[Mimi in London]

Perhaps he used the wipes to spread the blood around and make even more "mess" for KKL to "get down here" and "clean up," and not really as an attempt on his part to clean. Was the horrific scene he created intentional, or just the result of narcissistic rage and stupidity? Maybe, at some point, the "method to his madness" will be revealed. MOO.

IMO The overkill was part driven by hatred for Kelsey, but also by rage at KK. ‘Clean THAT’.

The only thing he attempted to clean was himself, and that would account for any bloody wet wipes at the scene.

 

[ab01]

The interesting part will be how many of these embellishments KK will actually remember on the stand.
MOO, MOO (and laughing)

The prosecution will go over and over and coach her about how to answer specific questions. All centered around facts that can be corroborated. I doubt there will be any oh gotcha moments unless the defense is able to dig up something that the prosecution is totally unaware of. Moo

 

[lindaromas]

December 4th is the day they took PF's phone and the very same day KK got rid of hers (as if she knew his was taken). It was quite a time before he was arrested.

Why couldn't they have sent LE to KK's place and taken her phone before she found out???

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm so glad you brought this up! This has been bothering me ever since I read the affidavit! Like you, this order of events makes no sense to me.

However, I've wondered about a few things that make more sense than the candle-sniffing "research" PF claims to have conducted on KB as a prelude to hitting her with a bat.

KB's mom mentioned that she was surprised to see how KB looked on the Safeway video: hair up in a bun, no makeup, didn't look like her usual put-together self. I'm guessing KB hadn't had her shower yet when she ran out to Safeway to get the dip ingredients. KB figures she'll take her shower after PF picks up baby K. Maybe things go down like this:

PF picks up baby K. KB says she's going to go take a shower.
PF sees his opportunity. He goes to Walmart for just a few minutes. Does he buy the bat then?
He's back at KB's right away. He lets himself into her house, puts baby K in the back room and enters the bathroom with the bat.
He attacks KB in the shower. This is the room where LE finds quite a bit of blood evidence that KK missed during her clean-up.
KB never saw it coming: no sweater over her head or candle-sniffing game. Why would she engage in that anyway? Things are tense between KB and PF. She's not about to let him put a sweater over her head for any reason.

I didn't get the impression things were tense between them. Kelsey had just stayed up all night to help him with the cattle and even went out to buy medicine for him.
I know KK said PF told her to get the sweater, but I don't remember if she burned it or just threw it away with the rest of the garbage. If she didn't burn it, maybe they will find it at the landfill.

 

[k-mac]

I'm so glad you brought this up! This has been bothering me ever since I read the affidavit! Like you, this order of events makes no sense to me.

However, I've wondered about a few things that make more sense than the candle-sniffing "research" PF claims to have conducted on KB as a prelude to hitting her with a bat.

KB's mom mentioned that she was surprised to see how KB looked on the Safeway video: hair up in a bun, no makeup, didn't look like her usual put-together self. I'm guessing KB hadn't had her shower yet when she ran out to Safeway to get the dip ingredients. KB figures she'll take her shower after PF picks up baby K. Maybe things go down like this:

PF picks up baby K. KB says she's going to go take a shower.
PF sees his opportunity. He goes to Walmart for just a few minutes. Does he buy the bat then?
He's back at KB's right away. He lets himself into her house, puts baby K in the back room and enters the bathroom with the bat.
He attacks KB in the shower. This is the room where LE finds quite a bit of blood evidence that KK missed during her clean-up.
KB never saw it coming: no sweater over her head or candle-sniffing game. Why would she engage in that anyway? Things are tense between KB and PF. She's not about to let him put a sweater over her head for any reason.

there is something off with the candle game.

someone who despises you enough to knowingly and with intent to obliterate you with a baseball bat really care about hiding it from the victim?
maybe blindfold someone and shoot them in the head quick over and done with they never knew a thing...sure

but what he did to her and the blood evidence if we can believe any elements of kks version he attacked her all over the condo. she fought him off and SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO HER. imo.

the candle game makes kk's "lover boy" seem so much more cuter...don't we all think??

moo