CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #48 *ARREST*

[ilovechili]

Who goes through the effort to put a tooth in an envelope from a crime to keep? It is like the opposite of secrets. Tell everyone, ensure you are on camera, use an expired license plate, make sure to solicit multiple times, get the solicited to clean the crime scene, talk to the teller at the bank, tell her everything, lie about everything, get caught lying, write out a note of who can watch your child that you have no legal guardianship, leave off victim that is the guardian, sell victim's gun, use her phone, take it to a gorge, leave with it, burn in yard instead, on and on.

Good summary of all of the either stupid or crazy things that make no sense in this case... Even though they may not be, this is why I have hope these teeth are evidence and are hers--because with the other actions, it would fit the stupidity...

 

[PrairieWind]

Who goes through the effort to put a tooth in an envelope from a crime to keep? It is like the opposite of secrets. Tell everyone, ensure you are on camera, use an expired license plate, make sure to solicit multiple times, get the solicited to clean the crime scene, talk to the teller at the bank, tell her everything, lie about everything, get caught lying, write out a note of who can watch your child that you have no legal guardianship, leave off victim that is the guardian, sell victim's gun, use her phone, take it to a gorge, leave with it, burn in yard instead, on and on.

So you're saying they maybe made some mistakes? LOL.
On a serious note, I actually do not find anything suspicious about the note they found giving others permission to care for the child and/or give health care. Every parent should have that. That KB was not on the list is not suspicious since KB would not need permission if she showed up.

 

[justaparent]

The whole scenario with PF and RS going to the bank seems like some kind of diversionary tactic. Why walk into the bank and ask questions when you could see anything from that time period online?

They initially told the bank employee they wanted information about the timeline of transactions on November 22.

I don’t really buy that, either, unless the bank is so teeny that it doesn’t have online access. I’m not familiar with those banks but even our very small credit unions have online access.

It seems they were definitely fishing and the camera issue makes more sense than the timeline.

 

[GHgal]

Anyone else notice that all these all these killers have overbearing mamas? Ed Gein, Chris Watts, Patrick, etc? Ted Bundy’s mom wasn’t overbearing but the sister he thought he knew was actually his mom, possibly thru incest.

 

[PrairieWind]

Good summary of all of the either stupid or crazy things that make no sense in this case... Even though they may not be, this is why I have hope these teeth are evidence and are hers--because with the other actions, it would fit the stupidity...

I really don't know what to make of the teeth discovery. Seems insane that he would have kept teeth from KB, but then, criminals do incredibly stupid things all the time. I would think that even without DNA, a dentist could tell LE if the teeth had been extracted recently or had been out a long time. And presumably KB had a local dentist that could easily tell LE if the teeth are KB's or not. I don't think we have seen a warrant for her dental records have we?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Dateline NBC‏Verifizierter Account @DatelineNBC 37 Min.Vor 37 Minuten
She had no idea it would be the last time she heard her daughter's voice… #Dateline all new tonight at 10/9c

 

[skycountry]

I have a few questions for his friends, clients, roping buddies, etc.

If PF and KB were not together, why did both their phones ping off the same Mt Piscah (sp) cell tower showing them both to be in the same area on 11/21, and early on 11/22 while they were checking his cows?

If they were not together, why was she running to get his stomach medicine early on 11/22? Receipts were found from Walmart for this medication IN HER CAR.
Why did her phone pings show her then travelling back to Florissant to bring him his meds on 11/22?

Also, I would suggest that the Prosecution use only female lawyers when they are discrediting HIS character witnesses. Should make him mad enough to maybe explode in the courtroom.

Also, why are all the people he listed in his hand written note all men, except for his mom. WTH.

All jmo.

 

[ilovechili]

They initially told the bank employee they wanted information about the timeline of transactions on November 22.

I don’t really buy that, either, unless the bank is so teeny that it doesn’t have online access. I’m not familiar with those banks but even our very small credit unions have online access.

It seems they were definitely fishing and the camera issue makes more sense than the timeline.

I think they were fishing too. However, 11/22 was a holiday. With my bank, on a Sunday, sometimes not all transactions do not post until the next day for instance. I know someone questioned two different Walmart times, one at the store and one at the bank... I think also it was about the camera but it could be a combination although personally I would just access the transactions online...

 

[ilovechili]

I really don't know what to make of the teeth discovery. Seems insane that he would have kept teeth from KB, but then, criminals do incredibly stupid things all the time. I would think that even without DNA, a dentist could tell LE if the teeth had been extracted recently or had been out a long time. And presumably KB had a local dentist that could easily tell LE if the teeth are KB's or not. I don't think we have seen a warrant for her dental records have we?

Yes, I think there is a good chance they are not hers, however, he has done incredibly stupid things and I almost think KK and PF thought LE was incompetent or would not put things together so in some way I could see him saving them...

We do have warrants missing without returns, you would probably know better what that means. Still waiting for something or they produced nothing? Could there also have been subsequent warrants that have not been filed yet?

Would they contact her dentist or would they send teeth for DNA results? I have no idea.

 

[justaparent]

A true tote doesn’t close on top although it might have a tether (and/or side cinches) for a bit of security. I seriously doubt he put her in something like that and think the terminology they used is probably incorrect. More likely a duffel bag or something along those lines.

I wouldn’t be too concerned about the actual term used to describe that piece.

JMO

 

[travelbug]

Having a couple of empty casings in a home is not odd at all for a ranch/farm or anyone that does any kind of shooting. What interests me is that LE seems very interested in KB's gun and associated ammunition. I think there may be something else going on that LE suspects.

I agree, it has always concerned me that if their goal was to prove suicide there would need to be some evidence. Sadly, I wonder if PM tried to get rid of KB by shooting her in the head with her own gun and leaving her body behind. He packed up the baby and wanted to leave, but saw she was still alive and panicked. At that point he started calling KK and SF about "what do I do now". I'm still not convinced he was the only one who beat poor innocent KB. jmho

 

[Hatfield]

Shoot her, move the body as he did anyhow in the way he ended up killing her, have it taken to Idaho and dumped. Push the suicide theory. Just one possible scenario of many. Or body disappears... Etc.

ETA: I still think both guns play some role in this. Whether we will ever know, it is hard to say. The search warrants hint at it though as well...

JMO
The alleged missing bullet still bothers me too.

How easy it would have been to just claim an "accident" once he knew her prints were on her gun. It doesnt quite fit now but I do wonder if when he took her practicing that was maybe his original plan and then he panicked and didnt want to have to admit to being around her when she died so he came up with another bad plan.

Its all so crazy that its hard to make any sense of a lot of it. Lets hope the prosecution has it all pinned down about all these outstanding questions because the defense is sure to bring them up.

 

[travelbug]

The teeth are the new cinnamon rolls.

 

[ilovechili]

I have a few questions for his friends, clients, roping buddies, etc.

If PF and KB were not together, why did both their phones ping off the same Mt Piscah (sp) cell tower showing them both to be in the same area on 11/21, and early on 11/22 while they were checking his cows?

If they were not together, why was she running to get his stomach medicine early on 11/22? Receipts were found from Walmart for this medication IN HER CAR.
Why did her phone pings show her then travelling back to Florissant to bring him his meds on 11/22?

Also, I would suggest that the Prosecution use only female lawyers when they are discrediting HIS character witnesses. Should make him mad enough to maybe explode in the courtroom.

Also, why are all the people he listed in his hand written note all men, except for his mom. WTH.

All jmo.

Great points. I actually hope some of those "friends" and "neighbors" read here. I think a few truly are well intentioned (not all) and need to realize they were shown one "face" by him and not his true character.

As to exploding in a courtroom, I have seen it more than once in my life. That type it just takes the right trigger and often it is not much. Women particularly can get their goat if they think little of women or feel they were dominated by one--if you know someone like that and are against them in a case, make sure to tell your attorney that and yes, hire a female. The same type will also often go off at the judge or get very out of order--because they do not like ANYONE telling them what to do.

 

[skycountry]

Shoot her, move the body as he did anyhow in the way he ended up killing her, have it taken to Idaho and dumped. Push the suicide theory. Just one possible scenario of many. Or body disappears... Etc.

ETA: I still think both guns play some role in this. Whether we will ever know, it is hard to say. The search warrants hint at it though as well...

Good point!

 

[SandyQLS]

more than you want to know about cattle teeth:
Aging cattle by their teeth - FutureBeef

(and they do not have molars)

Uh, yeah cattle do have premolars, molars and lower incisors, depending on age. What they do not have are upper incisors.

The whole point is that LE doesn't really know what they have when they collected these teeth during the SW execution. The teeth were sent to CBI. Whatever they are, they are not KB's or that would have come out at the Prelim which was 2 months later as incontrovertible evidence. Teeth were never mentioned at the Prelim except KK's story about the tooth in the vent that she claims to have thrown away.

 

[PrairieWind]

JMO
The alleged missing bullet still bothers me too.

How easy it would have been to just claim an "accident" once he knew her prints were on her gun. It doesnt quite fit now but I do wonder if when he took her practicing that was maybe his original plan and then he panicked and didnt want to have to admit to being around her when she died so he came up with another bad plan.

Its all so crazy that its hard to make any sense of a lot of it. Lets hope the prosecution has it all pinned down about all these outstanding questions because the defense is sure to bring them up.

That KB and/or PF mentioned her gun on 11/22, and the fact that KK says PF told her she HAD to take the gun, and that LE seems very interested in the gun, all lead me to believe that her gun was indeed involved some how. I am wondering if KK's comment that she felt she was being "set up" isn't perhaps correct (at least to a degree). PF was probably hoping he would never be suspected or arrested, but that he if he was, he was laying the ground work for plan b - blame it all on KK. I am also thinking that the "lump" KK saw burning was NOT KB's body at all.

 

[PrairieWind]

Uh, yeah cattle do have premolars, molars and lower incisors, depending on age. What they do not have are upper incisors.

The whole point is that LE doesn't really know what they have when they collected these teeth during the SW execution. The teeth were sent to CBI. Whatever they are, they are not KB's or that would have come out at the Prelim which was 2 months later as incontrovertible evidence. Teeth were never mentioned at the Prelim except KK's story about the tooth in the vent that she claims to have thrown away.

I agree. If those were KB's teeth, we would know that by now because it would have been mentioned.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I agree, it has always concerned me that if their goal was to prove suicide there would need to be some evidence. Sadly, I wonder if PM tried to get rid of KB by shooting her in the head with her own gun and leaving her body behind. He packed up the baby and wanted to leave, but saw she was still alive and panicked. At that point he started calling KK and SF about "what do I do now". I'm still not convinced he was the only one who beat poor innocent KB. jmho

I'm thinking she was still clinging to life after the beating, and being left on the haystack, then they shot her after she showed signs of life when they got her to the Frazee homestead.
That would account for the shell casings,and the missing bullet from 'dear' Meghan's gun. Which is why they threw out the BS suicide story.
MOO.

 

[ilovechili]

JMO
The alleged missing bullet still bothers me too.

How easy it would have been to just claim an "accident" once he knew her prints were on her gun. It doesnt quite fit now but I do wonder if when he took her practicing that was maybe his original plan and then he panicked and didnt want to have to admit to being around her when she died so he came up with another bad plan.

Its all so crazy that its hard to make any sense of a lot of it. Lets hope the prosecution has it all pinned down about all these outstanding questions because the defense is sure to bring them up.

Totally agree with all. I seriously doubt we will ever see another case like this with all of the odd things, the players and the list goes on... Or a preliminary hearing like this one... And so much more...