CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

[Gardener1850]

In the ranch aerial photos from the initial search (someone reposted them here a day or two ago), we can see what looks like a square white 5-gal bucket in the bed of the red truck. IF that's the "white box" it's quite small.

It seems possible that "crate" and "tote" are both referring to the same thing, though that would irk me because I think a "crate" has mesh-like walls, not solid.

I originally saw tweets referring to some kind of "crane" in the back of the truck. I'm going to assume that was a typo for "crate" but I hope it's been confirmed somewhere.

Depending on the size and rigidity of the tote, one idea I had (along with my idea just posted that the tote was already at Kelsey's) was that the tote was carried inside the cab of the truck while empty.

Those of us with pickups know that anything lightweight can fly out of a truck bed as it moves. So you either put it inside the cab, or you weight it down (like by putting a 5-gal bucket of tools inside).

IMO JMO

BBM.

Oh, that is quite a brilliant thought! I was thinking the black tote was in the bed of his truck when he showed up at the bank but the court blog only says it was seen in his truck:

"The state showed more stills from surveillance video at an Ent Credit Union location to the courtroom of Patrick Frazee. One of those showed him and the other showed a black tote in his truck. Adams said the tote played an important role in the case."
Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

So if the black tote was in the cab of the truck the whole time then perhaps the "white box" and the "crate" are the same thing? Perhaps described by different people? Perhaps it was a white milk crate in the bed of the truck?

ETA: And also since he bought a bag of dog food at Walmart he might have placed it in a white crate in the back of the truck in which case the crate holes could have shown up more readily on the furniture store video after that.

white box => white crate?

 

[Kapua]

So true, Massy! His ignorance is boundless, matchless, limitless...infinite, even!

It would take countless hours to catalogue all of PF's imbecilic actions from start to finish, but honestly, it would be well worth it just to be able to review and be thoroughly gobsmacked by the level of sheer idiocy he displayed at every single turn.

PF's moronicity* is unparalleled.

*Moronicity is not a word, which is why I've coined the term for purposes of describing PF.

JMO.

Needless to say, getting away with murder is not PF's forte. By a long shot.

 

[LittleBitty]

Yeah, she apparently took the hypocritical oath, as opposed to the Hippocratic Oath.

Honest mistake.

The jury will believe her if the evidence corroborates what she has to say.

She can fill in the gaps, and explain the context of text messages, phone calls, and location data.

She has identified the murder scene, storage site, and burn location.

They don’t have to like her, and they won’t. But of these people just follow the evidence, then I’m not worried.

There is no shortage of it.

The timeline begins with a proven lie, and ends with a flurry of them.

And we don’t know the least of it.

I’m banking on this. Timeline is key here. PingsCCTV, etc

 

[MassGuy]

I’m banking on this. Timeline is key here. PingsCCTV, etc

I can’t think of a case where we have a timeline this extensive.

His effort to make it look like Kelsey just took off, required the use of cell phones.

He was forced to keep track of his movements, and at the same time, his lies.

Huge mistake.

 

[Kapua]

I can’t think of a case where we have a timeline this extensive.

His effort to make it look like Kelsey just took off, required the use of cell phones.

He was forced to keep track of his movements, and at the same time, his lies.

Huge mistake.

Colossal mistake. On par with leaving both of KB's vehicles at her residence, despite having an accomplice AND possession of at least one set of car keys.

 

[MassGuy]

Colossal mistake. On par with leaving both of KB's vehicles at her residence, despite having an accomplice AND possession of at least one set of car keys.

Ha! I know.

I made sense of it early on (before we knew about KK) by thinking that maybe he just didn’t have someone to help him.

He did.

I don’t know if it was laziness or stupidity.

 

[Hatfield]

Been mainly reading. Great posts and questions and some answers by everyone.

There is definitely some things that are left hanging by the story KK gave LE and quite a few things I just dont buy from her at all.

One thing I have wondered about is her story about the key on the gate. So she is trying to tell me that after driving all those miles to go clean up a horrific crime scene where she would have no idea what to prepare herself for that she is not going to meet up with PF to talk about it first and expects me to believe she just picks up a key and goes over to KBs house to dive in?
I dont think so IMO.
Maybe picking up a key but I think she would want to have a little personal face to face discussion with PF before going to KBs house.

Also, just wondering if KB had a pet like a cat or even a small dog or fish or a bird or something to give her company in that lonely home since PF seems to leave her there by herself and the baby. No mention of pets of any kind.

Things like that are starting to really bother me. I think there are quite a few things that have been left out of the story as we know it so far. Hopefully we will learn the entire story eventually.

 

[Kapua]

Ha! I know.

I made sense of it early on (before we knew about KK) by thinking that maybe he just didn’t have someone to help him.

He did.

I don’t know if it was laziness or stupidity.

Both, IMHO.

 

[v0x]

KKL deleting her google location info on the day of the murder certainly made me think twice about her involvement in this case. If she wasn’t an active participant in the murder, and I’m not saying she was, what else would she be trying to cover by doing so?

 

[LittleBitty]

Do we know where and when KK purchased her crime scene cleaning gear?

 

[iamthewalrus]

What really blows my mind about this whole mess is PF is surrounded by people that think he is great. They are willing to help out with murder OR they can't believe he did it. Not just the idiot from Idaho, but elderly friends picking up packages and defending him on tv. PF is one heck of a manipulator. What kind of person would know someone is going to get killed and kept it secret?? It wasn't just one person but several... he has scary friends. His scary friends have scary friends too.

 

[MassGuy]

KKL deleting her google location info on the day of the murder certainly made me think twice about her involvement in this case. If she wasn’t an active participant in the murder, and I’m not saying she was, what else would she be trying to cover by doing so?

PF called her right after he killed Kelsey, and KK knew what her role was.

It was at that point, that she began making arrangements for her trip.

That apparently included covering her tracks.

I’m definitely open to the idea that she knew Kelsey was going to be killed that weekend, if she didn’t know the exact date.

 

[Gardener1850]

It's still hard for me to comprehend that PF risked leaving the townhouse as it was with blood everywhere for 2 days until KKL could come and clean. And he seemingly spent several hours at KB's home on 12/22. Yet he didn't get caught right away. What would he have done if a neighbor came over to offer some extra Thanksgiving dessert right after KB was murdered? Would that person have been murdered too if they saw the bloodbath? What if KB had trusted someone in her complex with a spare key and they went to check on KB and discovered the blood? PF got lucky that no one came to check on KB before the scene could be cleaned. I wish that KB had been able to trust someone who lived near her and that she had not trusted PF.

MOO.

 

[Warwick7]

I know from the court blog there are some things that still need to be nailed down/explained in the timeline. For example, can anyone explain the apparent transforming properties of the item in PF's truck bed? According to the prelim testimony (link below) the black tote was seen on camera in the back of PF's truck when he was at the bank ATM (between 12:44 and 12:50).

However, at 12:44 his truck is seen on camera passing William's Log Furniture with a "white box" in the bed. He shows up at the bank less than a minute after passing the furniture store and the sometime between 12:44 and 12:50 the black tote is seen in the bed of his truck on the ATM camera (most likely as he pulled away IMO). Then PF goes to Walmart and after leaving Walmart on his way toward KB's again at approx 1:25 pm his truck is seen on the same Furniture store video system as before only now it looks like "some kind of crate" is in the bed of his truck. We know he didn't buy a white box, nor a black tote nor a crate at Walmart after the bank. And no time to buy the tote between KB's house and the bank at 12:44.

So what is going on here?
Tricky camera lighting?
Different people describing the same thing in the bed of his truck?
Was the tote inside a white box or covered by a white sheet at first, unwrapped between KB's home and the bank but then repackaged again at some point between Walmart and passing the furniture store on the way to KB's so that it looked like "a crate"?

Any other ideas?



Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

THANK YOU! I've been wanting to say that about the white and black tote for sometime now!

 

[MassGuy]

It's still hard for me to comprehend that PF risked leaving the townhouse as it was with blood everywhere for 2 days until KKL could come and clean. And he seemingly spent several hours at KB's home on 12/22. Yet he didn't get caught right away. What would he have done if a neighbor came over to offer some extra Thanksgiving dessert right after KB was murdered? Would that person have been murdered too if they saw the bloodbath? What if KB had trusted someone in her complex with a spare key and they went to check on KB and discovered the blood? PF got lucky that no one came to check on KB before the scene could be cleaned. I wish that KB had been able to trust someone who lived near her and that she had not trusted PF.

MOO.

I think he was comfortable that the crime scene would remain undiscovered.

He had to be, because leaving a bloody mess for two days, is incredibly risky.

I think he had spent a great deal of time at that house in the past, and his past experience told him that no one would be coming by.

We do know that Kelsey was quiet and reserved, and that probably worked in his favor.

 

[v0x]

PF called her right after he killed Kelsey, and KK knew what her role was.

It was at that point, that she began making arrangements for her trip.

That apparently included covering her tracks.

I’m definitely open to the idea that she knew Kelsey was going to be killed that weekend, if she didn’t know the exact date.

So, do we have pings placing her in Idaho those days? My memory sucks. Lol. Why would she delete those days specifically?

 

[MassGuy]

So, do we have pings placing her in Idaho those days? My memory sucks. Lol. Why would she delete those days specifically?

We don’t have that information yet.

During the preliminary hearing, Kelsey’s phone activity and PF’s were discussed.

KK’s location on those days was not mentioned in detail.

The affidavit lays out her general movements (which would have been vetted), but we don’t know the specifics in relation to her tracked location.

 

[Seattle1]

Do we know where and when KK purchased her crime scene cleaning gear?

KK allegedly brought her hazmat wear & supplies with her from home, and also used KB's own supplies.

 

[v0x]

We don’t have that information yet.

During the preliminary hearing, Kelsey’s phone activity and PF’s were discussed.

KK’s location on those days was not mentioned in detail.

The affidavit lays out her general movements (which would have been vetted), but we don’t know the specifics in relation to her tracked location.

I didn’t think so. Thanks for confirming

 

[Hatch]

Yes, that was it. It's stuck with me as being true because they were both seeing driving by the furniture store right before that time. And the text the night before or was it that morning, said I will take the baby and go do some errands while you get ready. And that is what happened immediately following her with a flowers and fit in with him driving and her driving past the furniture store. I'll have to relook at it but it just fit.

ETA I think the baby exchange was at 12:40 almost. That would explain he perhaps drove away and she texted him to perhaps get pecans because she had forgot to get them. That would make sense with everything as far as the furniture store surveillance. Now knowing especially that the furniture store is only two tenths of a mile from her house.

We know they were both caught on camera driving towards the house just a few minutes before then, and would have arrived at the house and possibly met at the doorway at the same exact time. Then he just turned around and left with the baby..

So he difinitely knew he was following thru with his plans, pecans were not on his receipt.