CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[dixiegirl1035]

I am confused as well, about how PF’s truck was left at the condo.

Is it correct that he had the baby with him during the murder? How would he leave the condo with the baby and not use his truck?

Did someone pick them up?

Or did he drive his truck away from the crime scene but then return later in his truck and leave it there somehow for some reason?

I need to add to my notes, but I'm not clear. Has it been verified that the truck that the neighbor saw that was there at about 12:30 or such is the same color truck that was seen going through the drive-thru at the bank?.

Someone above inferred that possibly KB was picked up the night before, and drove his truck home after errands iirc.

Still that begs the question of why no one has stated, that I have seen, saw his truck there after that day at 12:30 if indeed she had his truck, and he brought his other truck that day with another car seat.

Also, I firmly believe that when anyone refers to the alleyway, they are talking about the parking lot where they park the cars as the front of the house ( as her address is the main road, which I thought of as the back of her house.)

 

[ajaylee]

I am confused as well, about how PF’s truck was left at the condo.

Is it correct that he had the baby with him during the murder? How would he leave the condo with the baby and not use his truck?

Did someone pick them up?

Or did he drive his truck away from the crime scene but then return later in his truck and leave it there somehow for some reason?

IIRC, PF's cellphone records indicated he went home late Thanksgiving afternoon. He went out again later that evening to visit RS, his 'surrogate' father and returned to the ranchette.

I don't know if anything has been released about where he went or what he did the next day, Friday. KK didn't arrive until the next day, Saturday. If it was hard to eat Thanksgiving dinner after murdering KB, it must have been even harder to hang out all day, knowing the condo is a blood-spattered mess and KB's body in a tote is somewhere. (I don't recall when he took the body to the barn).

Is it possible that KK rolled into town, went to PF's gate to get the condo key, went to the condo, cleaned up, did the Sonic run and met up with PF at the gas station. Perhaps then they took both vehicles to KB's condo and left PF's there? I'm pretty sure only one vehicle went to the barn and I'm pretty sure it was KK's, because I thought it must have been jammed with the bags of trash she took from the condo and the tote with KB's body.

 

[MemPat]

I'm inclined to think that PF got rid of the remains of the fire before the episode at the landfill with the two guys. I think he got rid of it within a day or so of KK leaving - as soon as it was cool and solid enough to move.

That whole trip to the landfill seems staged, but I can't for the life of me think what PF would have hoped to accomplish if that's true - and why the two other guys went along with it.

If he just wanted to play games with LE, I get that, but why would two people he knew also go along with it?

"Hey, guys, LE is hassling me about my ex, so how about you guys meet me at the landfill and unload my trailer load of junk? I'll sit in the truck while you do it. Good fun, huh?"

I'm having trouble understanding what that was all about.

Playing games is believable. I can totally see that any friends of PF's wouldn't be any smarter than he is.

 

[MemPat]

KB blood evidence would be a red flag if they found it at Momma's house , on that swifter mop . Did KK go to Ma's and get those cleaning supplies before she cleaned , or did she bring those with her and just leave them with Ma?
Did PF purchase them at Walmart?

Cleaning supplies weren't on PF's receipt that day.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IIRC, PF's cellphone records indicated he went home late Thanksgiving afternoon. He went out again later that evening to visit RS, his 'surrogate' father and returned to the ranchette.

I don't know if anything has been released about where he went or what he did the next day, Friday. KK didn't arrive until the next day, Saturday. If it was hard to eat Thanksgiving dinner after murdering KB, it must have been even harder to hang out all day, knowing the condo is a blood-spattered mess and KB's body in a tote is somewhere. (I don't recall when he took the body to the barn).

Is it possible that KK rolled into town, went to PF's gate to get the condo key, went to the condo, cleaned up, did the Sonic run and met up with PF at the gas station. Perhaps then they took both vehicles to KB's condo and left PF's there? I'm pretty sure only one vehicle went to the barn and I'm pretty sure it was KK's, because I thought it must have been jammed with the bags of trash she took from the condo and the tote with KB's body.

They talked about loading it into the truck at Nash, not her car iirc.. I think somebody here did a quick link where you could see the entire day, but I think it was only for Sam? But that does beg the question, where did she transfer all the bags into his truck to take them back to the Ranch.

I'm thinking she just followed him around and they had both vehicles as she left from his place directly to Idaho, without him taking her back to a place where she left her car that we have seen so far.

Yet, that has never been clearly stated that I have seen.

 

[susiQ]

IIRC, PF's cellphone records indicated he went home late Thanksgiving afternoon. He went out again later that evening to visit RS, his 'surrogate' father and returned to the ranchette.

I don't know if anything has been released about where he went or what he did the next day, Friday. KK didn't arrive until the next day, Saturday. If it was hard to eat Thanksgiving dinner after murdering KB, it must have been even harder to hang out all day, knowing the condo is a blood-spattered mess and KB's body in a tote is somewhere. (I don't recall when he took the body to the barn).

Is it possible that KK rolled into town, went to PF's gate to get the condo key, went to the condo, cleaned up, did the Sonic run and met up with PF at the gas station. Perhaps then they took both vehicles to KB's condo and left PF's there? I'm pretty sure only one vehicle went to the barn and I'm pretty sure it was KK's, because I thought it must have been jammed with the bags of trash she took from the condo and the tote with KB's body.

It certainly is a conundrum, at least for me. What I did read "somewhere" last night between the AA or the preliminary hearing tweets was that they transported the black tote in the back of the red truck from Nash Ranch to the Franchette. Didn't specify which red truck.

 

[girlhasnoname]

No worries! It's quite easy to miss things and we all remember the misreporting that went on at the beginning. I got sucked into the "dog" instead of "God", lol.

But, once again, I will drive myself batsh@t crazy trying to understand how it was that his truck was at KB's and when did it get there?
ed:sp

Now you've got me searching my brain on this too!

dbm asked

 

[MyBelle]

I was just reading about a cold no-body case. Michael Haim killed his wife Bonnie in 1993 and buried her in their backyard - and he killed her in front of their son Aaron, who was 3 at the time. Aaron told his aunt that 'Daddy shot Mommy in the stomach'. I mention this case because the reason the authorities did not arrest Michael sooner was that they didn't have a body - until Aaron inherited the house and accidentally discovered it when digging in the backyard. For 20 years, Michael Haim has been free. I am so thankful that we don't have to wait 20 years for justice for KB. MOO

The Haim case wasn't a cold case. LE believed Aaron that Haim did it but because there was no body, they felt they lacked sufficient proof to win a conviction. Bonnie's own parents didn't believe Aaron because of inconsistencies and his young age.

Aaron did win a wrongful death lawsuit he filed against his father and the house was part of it. Aaron decided to renovate it and that's when he found his mother's skull.

This case is far from a slam dunk win. Let's hope the meticulous search of the landfill is successful.

JMO

 

[tmar]

I was just reading about a cold no-body case. Michael Haim killed his wife Bonnie in 1993 and buried her in their backyard - and he killed her in front of their son Aaron, who was 3 at the time. Aaron told his aunt that 'Daddy shot Mommy in the stomach'. I mention this case because the reason the authorities did not arrest Michael sooner was that they didn't have a body - until Aaron inherited the house and accidentally discovered it when digging in the backyard. For 20 years, Michael Haim has been free. I am so thankful that we don't have to wait 20 years for justice for KB. MOO

What a horrid story for Aaron.
Here, as yet no body, but we hope, Justice is around the corner.
Karma is already working on all involved, affecting their pathetic lives, thank goodness.
MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

The Haim case wasn't a cold case. LE believed Aaron that Haim did it but because there was no body, they felt they lacked sufficient proof to win a conviction. Bonnie's own parents didn't believe Aaron because of inconsistencies and his young age.

Aaron did win a wrongful death lawsuit he filed against his father and the house was part of it. Aaron decided to renovate it and that's when he found his mother's skull.

This case is far from a slam dunk win. Let's hope the meticulous search of the landfill is successful.

JMO

The Haim case was the very definition of a “cold case.”

The case couldn’t move forward, unless new information came to light.

It did, when Bonnie’s body was unearthed.

Fortunately they don’t need a body in Kelsey’s case.

The Haim case didn’t have the benefit of multiple documented lies, cell phone data, forensic evidence, and a material witness.

I’ve never seen a no body case with this much evidence, and we don’t know the half of it.

ETA: Link for those interested.
Bonnie Haim 1993 murder: Son digs up mother's skull in backyard in cold case

 

[nwmouse]

The Haim case was the very definition of a “cold case.”

The case couldn’t move forward, unless new information came to light.

It did, when Bonnie’s body was unearthed.

Fortunately they don’t need a body in Kelsey’s case.

The Haim case didn’t have the benefit of multiple documented lies, cell phone data, forensic evidence, and a material witness.

I’ve never seen a no body case with this much evidence, and we don’t know the half of it.

Over the last few years there have been numerous cases successfully prosecuted without a body due to progress in forensics.

Helle Crafts is a good example.

The DA in this case has blood spatter from blunt force trauma verified as being KB's blood, witness testimony, motive, opportunity, means etc. And her disappearance off the face of planet earth.

I am very confident that PF will be convicted without a body and he'll receive LWOP.

I'm also hopeful that PF will not be able to contain his rage at trial and will start ranting. He seems to lack self-control on a very basic level and becomes violent.

moo

 

[susiQ]

Over the last few years there have been numerous cases successfully prosecuted without a body due to progress in forensics.

Helle Crafts is a good example.

The DA in this case has blood spatter from blunt force trauma verified as being KB's blood, witness testimony, motive, opportunity, means etc. And her disappearance off the face of planet earth.

I am very confident that PF will be convicted without a body and he'll receive LWOP.

I'm also hopeful that PF will not be able to contain his rage at trial and will start ranting. He seems to lack self-control on a very basic level and becomes violent.

moo

I certainly agree with most of this. Having said that, I don't see him raging in public. I see him as putting on a "cool as a cucumber" act/persona. I'm almost certain of it. He will most likely be convicted but sit in jail professing his innocence and how he was "set up" by KK and appealing his conviction, until "the cows come home." Whoops, I forgot, he doesn't have any cattle anymore His buddy, CC, just can't believe he would do such a thing. RS, the father figure, is convinced Kelsey did this to herself and that authorities should be looking for KB's ex bf, a pilot. I think he is arrogant enough to think he can fool everyone into believing he's innocent by keeping his cool and letting his attorney cast doubt on KK's story. When that doesn't work, he'll continue selling that story for the rest of his miserable days from prison. JMO

If I'm wrong, I promise to eat crow, just not CC's crow

 

[susiQ]

DBM

 

[Hatch]

I was just reading about a cold no-body case. Michael Haim killed his wife Bonnie in 1993 and buried her in their backyard - and he killed her in front of their son Aaron, who was 3 at the time. Aaron told his aunt that 'Daddy shot Mommy in the stomach'. I mention this case because the reason the authorities did not arrest Michael sooner was that they didn't have a body - until Aaron inherited the house and accidentally discovered it when digging in the backyard. For 20 years, Michael Haim has been free. I am so thankful that we don't have to wait 20 years for justice for KB. MOO

Yikes!

 

[acutename]

BBM

@Tippy Lynn, can you tell us where this came from? I'm having trouble finding
a link for it. TIA

not TL but I believe it was from KK as told by Slater and maybe as delivered in Kraemer's tweets... possible something was lost in this telling.

 

[ab01]

I certainly agree with most of this. Having said that, I don't see him raging in public. I see him as putting on a "cool as a cucumber" act/persona. I'm almost certain of it. He will most likely be convicted but sit in jail professing his innocence and how he was "set up" by KK and appealing his conviction, until "the cows come home." Whoops, I forgot, he doesn't have any cattle anymore His buddy, CC, just can't believe he would do such a thing. RS, the father figure, is convinced Kelsey did this to herself and that authorities should be looking for KB's ex bf, a pilot. I think he is arrogant enough to think he can fool everyone into believing he's innocent by keeping his cool and letting his attorney cast doubt on KK's story. When that doesn't work, he'll continue selling that story for the rest of his miserable days from prison. JMO

If I'm wrong, I promise to eat crow, just not CC's crow

Absolutely agree I think PF has spun any story that he could to try to paint himself as the person he wanted to be for his entire life up to this point. I think that is why everyone is so quick to defend him bc in their minds he has always been a good ole cowboy and people have always done him wrong. Unfortunately for him in this situation there is finally not a way to over look the dirty deeds he had committed and I think those closest to him are finally asking themselves some very tough questions .....MOO

 

[GordianKnot]

Absolutely agree I think PF has spun any story that he could to try to paint himself as the person he wanted to be for his entire life up to this point. I think that is why everyone is so quick to defend him bc in there minds he has always been a good ole cowboy and people have always done him wrong. Unfortunately for him in this situation there is finally not a way to over look the dirty deeds he had committed and I think those closest to him are finally asking themselves some very tough questions .....MOO

BBM:

I'm really not sure whether or not any of PF's nearest and dearest are actually asking themselves the tough questions. They don't strike me as being the soul-searching types.

I'm sure that DA May will be asking several of PF's kith and kin some extremely tough questions during the trial, however.

One way or another, they're going to have to provide answers.

JMO.

 

[susiQ]

not TL but I believe it was from KK as told by Slater and maybe as delivered in Kramer's tweets... possible something was lost in this telling.

This was the link supplied to me by SandyQLS:
Thread#39 page88 post#1756

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm
Slater: Frazee and Krystal drove back to the townhome to get Frazee's truck.#KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee

 

[skyedaze]

I wonder what KK did to celebrate her birthday in style the other day. Maybe she borrowed a car, a wig and a gun and went shopping for a new track phone and drove 800 miles RT to reminisce about the good old days. She stops at Sonic, she drives by KB's and remembers the thrill and addictive rush of taking poison coffee, laying in wait, playing Merry Maid. She stops at Nash Ranch and wishes PF could be with her having a romp on those hay bales. Then heads for the ranchette, surely she is still welcome there...

33, older and wiser now I am sure. I bet she spent the day feeling guilt and remorse that she can celebrate birthdays yet and KB will never have another birthday nor even see her 30s. I bet she spends time on remorse that Baby K only had her mother through her first birthday and no more. Thanks to her as much as PF.

I will wisely stop there well other than to say did she get her birthday cake and eat it too? Did it have 33 scented candles on it? She shuts her eyes, makes a birthday wish and tries to guess the scents... And... (well fill in your own ending to that sentence, I have mine)... Getting her birthday cake and eating it too pretty much describes her plea deal. Was there a file in her cake? Because one day she will need one...

And if there is any justice, it will be for decades longer than a year or two... One day...

From two little peas in a pod to two murdering evil people in separate prison cells for life, now that would be sweeter than birthday cake.

I'm sure she enjoyed it and never gave a thought to KB and lil K never being able to share B-days together. Let's be real..she puts herself first so I'm sure she did here as well.
Oh but I like the cake with the 33 scented candles and and she closes her eyes part, lol. We can only hope.

 

[skyedaze]

Over the last few years there have been numerous cases successfully prosecuted without a body due to progress in forensics.

Helle Crafts is a good example.

The DA in this case has blood spatter from blunt force trauma verified as being KB's blood, witness testimony, motive, opportunity, means etc. And her disappearance off the face of planet earth.

I am very confident that PF will be convicted without a body and he'll receive LWOP.

I'm also hopeful that PF will not be able to contain his rage at trial and will start ranting. He seems to lack self-control on a very basic level and becomes violent.

moo

with Helle Crafts they found........a tooth.