CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[steeltowngirl]

I believe he wanted to make it look like Kelsey had taken the gun with her and committed suicide.
KK told investigators that he planned to make it look like she had gone somewhere to "off herself." Imo

Makes sense to get the gun out of KB’s townhome if they were making it look like she took off with it.

But why would KK give the gun to someone else, especially someone she knew? The gun could be traced back to KB’s ownership. IF their evil plan had been successful on all other counts, that gun would have been hanging out there - to tie back to KK at some point.

I can’t do enough mental gymnastics to find a reason KK or PF wouldn’t destroy or disappear the gun.

 

[susiQ]

Makes sense to get the gun out of KB’s townhome if they were making it look like she took off with it.

But why would KK give the gun to someone else, especially someone she knew? The gun could be traced back to KB’s ownership. IF their evil plan had been successful on all other counts, that gun would have been hanging out there - to tie back to KK at some point.

I can’t do enough mental gymnastics to find a reason KK or PF wouldn’t destroy or disappear the gun.

I'd like to know what she told her friend about WHY she needed him to hang on to the gun. I sure wouldn't hang on to a gun for anyone Big red flag in my mind!

My thoughts are, she thought if PF got away with this (as well as herself), she'd collect that gun and keep it as a "trophy"? KK is a sick woman, by all accounts.

 

[MsBetsy]

Makes sense to get the gun out of KB’s townhome if they were making it look like she took off with it.

But why would KK give the gun to someone else, especially someone she knew? The gun could be traced back to KB’s ownership. IF their evil plan had been successful on all other counts, that gun would have been hanging out there - to tie back to KK at some point.

I can’t do enough mental gymnastics to find a reason KK or PF wouldn’t destroy or disappear the gun.

Maybe at the time they had enough confidence to think they would get away with it. That's the only reason I can think of.
Or maybe PF told her to dispose of it and she thought giving it away would be good enough. Neither were experienced killers, after all. Imo

 

[MemPat]

Makes sense to get the gun out of KB’s townhome if they were making it look like she took off with it.

But why would KK give the gun to someone else, especially someone she knew? The gun could be traced back to KB’s ownership. IF their evil plan had been successful on all other counts, that gun would have been hanging out there - to tie back to KK at some point.

I can’t do enough mental gymnastics to find a reason KK or PF wouldn’t destroy or disappear the gun.

Pure ignorance.

 

[ajaylee]

I'd like to know what she told her friend about WHY she needed him to hang on to the gun. I sure wouldn't hang on to a gun for anyone Big red flag in my mind!

My thoughts are, she thought if PF got away with this (as well as herself), she'd collect that gun and keep it as a "trophy"? KK is a sick woman, by all accounts.

It was very odd. According to KK, the gun was never used. PF had no reason to fear his DNA being found on the gun because he had had it in his possession for months. The only remotely illegal activity attached to the gun would be PF's unauthorized removal - theft, I guess.

It's almost like PF made her take it just to push her buttons. The worst that was likely to happen was that she would get pulled over on the drive back and found with a gun that wasn't hers. So? That would have exposed PF's half-arsed attempt to make KB's murder look like a suicide - it would have backfired on him.

I don't recall when KK told one of her friends that she was 'done' with PF. I wonder how much contact, if any, they had between the day his phone was confiscated (and she unexpectedly 'lost' hers) and the day of his arrest.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Maybe at the time they had enough confidence to think they would get away with it. That's the only reason I can think of.
Or maybe PF told her to dispose of it and she thought giving it away would be good enough. Neither were experienced killers, after all. Imo

Or possibly the guy she gave it to couldn’t legally obtain a gun on his own. So KK was doing him a favor, giving him her “aunt’s” gun. She being just that kinda girl to help a friend. Like mopping a murder scene.

You know, “cowboy code” and all.

 

[Kapua]

Re: laces.

The search warrant took two pairs of size 12 Columbia (or Khombu) boots. Most, if not all, Columbia boots are lace-ups, not cowboy boots - hikers, hunters, ranchers, outdoor folks all wear them.

Re: the mystery consumptive testing item

One guess? Blood on PF's boots. KK mentioned bloody footprints all over the apartment. If you look at a picture of an 'average' Columbia boot, between the sole, laces, stitched bits and eyelets, there are a LOT of places on the boots where he could have missed something in clean-up.

Ah, thank you. I had no idea.

 

[ilovechili]

Or possibly the guy she gave it to couldn’t legally obtain a gun on his own. So KK was doing him a favor, giving him her “aunt’s” gun. She being just that kinda girl to help a friend. Like mopping a murder scene.

You know, “cowboy code” and all.

She probably owed him, you know, borrowed a car or a phone or he drove her somewhere

From what I recall, he was a "dealer" of guns. She may have made a few bucks as well, help cover some of her travel and stalking expenses.

Or maybe there were further plans but her being caught put an end to it--meaning just imagine if that gun ended up with some person or somewhere... Kelsey is being looked for and lo and behold...

I am as interested in her gf's gun with the missing bullet as I am with this one.

jmo.

 

[crhedBngr]

I hope so! For a long time I've thought KK may have targeted more than just PF. She wanted PF to herself and what better way to accomplish that? Simple, just take down the "puppet master". jmo

KK may have thought, "if I can't have him, nobody can".

 

[acutename]

And remember they now have chemicals that show blood was present even after it has ALL been cleaned up.

a lot of shoe materials are multi layer so even if the outside was cleaned, something could have seeped into an inner layer- by the lace holes or under the insole. also, if he no longer had the shoes he was wearing in the Walmart video, where did they go and why?

 

[Hatch]

KK may have thought, "if I can't have him, nobody can".

IMO KK was having a midlife Highschool love affair type thing, ya know older and wiser in the ways of the world make better bed fellows, she was mighty star struck to drive 1600 miles round trip on several occasions for a booty call. IMO PF was directing and manipulating her every move. I think when it got down to the nuts and bolts of it she could not kill KB. The first time I do believe the coffee was drugged and KB did not drink it, ( but worth a booty call) the second time a dog spooked her and she left (booty call) by the the third try I think she was just not going to do it but the drive was worth another booty call.
IMO she and PF had talked about it in detail "well if you don't do it KK I am doing it" then you are going to have a mess to clean up. KK got the call from PF on the 22nd and his words were " you better get down here , you have a mess to clean up." KK is easy to dislike knowing of what all she did do on her 3 trips to WP from her statement to the FBI. PF really has some game with women (I hated saying that) telling them he can see them in wedding dresses etc. He is a twisted man at best. IMO I doubt he had any intentions of being with KK on a permanent basis, I think he was using her to get his dirty deed done. Until we have proof of something different and crow on the platter PF killed KB. JMHO
Adding: IMO PF doled out his favors to women like dog treats.

 

[susiQ]

a lot of shoe materials are multi layer so even if the outside was cleaned, something could have seeped into an inner layer- by the lace holes or under the insole. also, if he no longer had the shoes he was wearing in the Walmart video, where did they go and why?

Someone suggested earlier that all his bloody clothing and shoes probably ended up in the black tote with KB.

 

[Trocroc9]

I think he is that stupid. But I also think you just came up w/an explanation that might be tried.

My counter would be if KK took the extreme step of killing KB to live happily ever after w/PF, why in the world would she also frame him for the crime by using KBs phone? That defeats the whole purpose.

I think that was an afterthought. She thought he would support her until the end. She realized when he wasn’t talking that she was going down and she got nervous and needed to talk. She realized she was not as important as she once thought she was to him . Imo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

a lot of shoe materials are multi layer so even if the outside was cleaned, something could have seeped into an inner layer- by the lace holes or under the insole. also, if he no longer had the shoes he was wearing in the Walmart video, where did they go and why?

I can no longer remember if the video of PF at WalMart is post-murder or pre-murder. But KK mentioned (I think?) bloody shoeprints in the condo; I assume LE took whatever footwear they thought might be relevant. If he disposed of his shoes in the burn pile then obviously they weren't available to be taken by LE, but it's also possible LE knows he was wearing boots at the time (perhaps the luminol showed the pattern?) and that the tennies from the video were not worn during the crime. All MOO

 

[Trocroc9]

dbm

 

[Trocroc9]

Fortunately, stupidity is not a defense.

Intelligent people make bad criminals; people like PF, make terrible criminals.

You’re right, “saying he did so, does not make it true.”

The evidence saying that he did so, certainly seems to prove that to be the case.

Perhaps a lone cell phone transmission at a single moment in time can be wrong.

But when you’re talking about two days of phone locations, two days of cell phone interactions, then that is astronomically unlikely.

He lied about when he last saw Kelsey, this fact is not in dispute.

He told lies to Doss and law enforcement, this fact is not in dispute.

Discount the phone locations and what are you left with:

Two days of phone calls and texts with a dead woman.

Still damning.

I agree I am having issue with the things he has said and done to cover what happened which shows he knows what happened.

Here is my case what if somebody else committed the murder. I am taking issue with phone pings and who has phone and others who know a lot of information about the crime that should not unless they actually committed it. I have always said this all along. He definitely is a participant I do not disagree but what if there is more. In my opinion there is more to this case. I think that’s where we have found disagreement.

And I’m really confused because you and many on here have continuously called this perpetrator stupid and in’s this post you are saying how intelligent he is. What are your actual thoughts on PF?

 

[MassGuy]

I agree I am having issue with the things he has said and done to cover what happened which shows he knows what happened.

Here is my case what if somebody else committed the murder. I am taking issue with phone pings and who has phone and others who know a lot of information about the crime that should not unless they actually committed it. I have always said this all along. He definitely is a participant I do not disagree but what if there is more. In my opinion there is more to this case. I think that’s where we have found disagreement.

If the evidence was there, I would have absolutely no problem with believing that this woman was far more involved than cleaning up blood, and misleading an investigation.

She seems more than capable of going further than that.

With the evidence we have seen though, my personal belief is that her involvement is the following:

She knew PF was going to kill Kelsey, and had a general idea of when he was going to do it.

An agreement was in place that PF was going to do the killing, and KK was going to do the cleaning.

Her claims that she left blood evidence, and purposely left a digital trail that would lead to her, is pure BS. I think she was lazy, and made mistakes.

As to her involvement being greater than that, I don’t see any evidence that allows for it.

The timing doesn’t come close to working, and her outline of the events is both supported by evidence, and makes sense.

Motive was there for KK, but the opportunity was not.

 

[Trocroc9]

If the evidence was there, I would have absolutely no problem with believing that this woman was far more involved than cleaning up blood, and misleading an investigation.

She seems more than capable of going further than that.

With the evidence we have seen though, my personal belief is that her involvement is the following:

She knew PF was going to kill Kelsey, and had a general idea of when he was going to do it.

An agreement was in place that PF was going to do the killing, and KK was going to do the cleaning.

Her claims that she left blood evidence, and purposely left a digital trail that would lead to her, is pure BS. I think she was lazy, and made mistakes.

As to her involvement being greater than that, I don’t see any evidence that allows for it.

The timing doesn’t come close to working, and her outline of the events is both supported by evidence, and makes sense.

Motive was there for KK, but the opportunity was not.

I was just checking the phone evidence she was the one that held KB’s phone though. Check it out at least I’m feeling confident on this from 11/24 on. There was not any long conversation until she arrived. She must have taken control of this aspect.
Colorado Judicial Branch

 

[Trocroc9]

I find it odd as heck that nobody has reported where the hell she was and why there is not a report as to where kk was from 11-21- 11/24. Why was her google locator apps shut off at this time? Where is the explanation and why aren’t more of us questioning this ? I am not trying to be difficult this is just common sense. I think all of us on here would like to know where the heck was kk when all of this took place.

 

[Trocroc9]

I think that was an afterthought. She thought he would support her until the end. She realized when he wasn’t talking that she was going down and she got nervous and needed to talk. She realized she was not as important as she once thought she was to him . Imo[/QUOTE

I don’t think he’s stupid.