CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

Are jurors asked if they are in Mensa? I swear this is a legit question by me. I’ve heard it mentioned a few times on the threads, and now I’m seriously wondering. Or is it a facetious reference? I promise I truly am asking as I do not know.

I'm sorry, steeltowngirl, I think I started that earlier. And yes, I was being a bit facetious in using that term Jurors don't have to be mensa, naturally, I just prefer jurors who are cable of critical thinking and not swayed by emotion. I'll leave it at that.

 

[MemPat]

Initially, when I heard that the Berreths were unhappy about the light punishment for KK, I was as upset as many are.

Then I thought more about it. The DA evidently discussed this approach with the Berreths. He would not have blindsided them by having them hear about KK’s plea deal in the media.

I’m not saying he needed their approval as such, but I feel he was prudent, honest, and to the point with them. That this approach, adding KK’s evidence to the case - WAS absolutely needed to put PF away for life. Without it, still a strong case, but KK’s testimony seals the coffin. And the Berreths, despite their heartache and anger, want PF put away.

Once I considered it all in this manner, it became easier to accept (for me, all only my opinion).

I can accept whatever it takes to keep PF away from Kelsey's baby for life.

Let's say LE had only enough on PF to try him for destroying or hiding a body.....He'd be out in no time.

It took KK, much as we despise her and doubt her veracity at times, to spell out the narrative for LE.

She's the best chance the baby has of not growing up Frazee.

That's all worth the Berreths' angst and ours.

 

[steeltowngirl]

However, they could have negotiated for something longer than can be measured easily in months for a sentence. jmo. 18 months makes me think of how young KB's daughter is--it flies by in no time quite honestly... Why so little of a possible sentence? Why no restrictions? Why not a cannot leave the state, cannot this, cannot that. Not a single restriction and even showing up?

Of course a multitude of people are unhappy and wonder why.

ETA: And she did not even provide remains. Nor any physical evidence. People would not like that possible sentence even with having done that. imo.

You make valid points. My own opinion
1. Light sentence. Is due to the wealth of info she provided, helping tie the pieces together in a way the prosecution may have been challenged to do in a timely way.
2. Restrictions. I’m not sure we know what (if any) restrictions are in place. There may be none, there may be some. She may have a monitoring bracelet.
3. Not showing up. Well I have my own questions there which I won’t get into, but suffice to say I think the fact she has young children plays into it. Also, for her protection. She’s an important witness and she could be endangered. Not only by PF not wanting her to testify, but due to the mass and well-deserved hatred of her.

Edit to correct typo

 

[Love Never Fails]

I agree with much but not with all which is to be expected right ? Let's start with Mensa type of jurors, that is the last thing they want imo and I will not elaborate on that nor sidetrack on it because it would be futile. I will say a juror who is a member of Mensa will be able to literally read and interpret fully the jury instructions. They would be better off with women who think PF's bangs are ugly and that KK was not treated right by him and that certainly does not take qualifying as a member of Mensa.

The other main thing I disagree with is she tied together pings, phone calls, etc. from when solicitations and planning first began. When and where did I miss that LE had this info? I am not saying come trial they may not have such things but anything I have seen is from the 21st late hours/22nd early hours on. They have pings, etc.. from back when? Seriously.

I agree with much of what you said and I hope they do have such things but I guess I am not in on the loop on that one because I have seen no such thing.

Other than these things, I pretty much agree but nothing is a slam dunk and she is a liability imo. Lord knows what she will get up to in the years until trial commences, particularly free to travel and do anything she wishes, no restrictions to speak of at all. I am sure the defense is salivating over that thought and possibility.

He is guilty, no doubt. She is as well. KB is dead because of the two of them. imvho.

I understand and respect your response and I myself think what I stated herein.

I will celebrate, however, if and when he is put away and moves from county to prison. That we agree on

I respect your thoughts and posts. But I do not believe KB is dead “because of the two of them”. If KK did not exist, KB would still be dead. Because PF wanted her dead and he committed the murder.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm sorry, steeltowngirl, I think I started that earlier. And yes, I was being a bit facetious in using that term Jurors don't have to be mensa, naturally, I just prefer jurors who are cable of critical thinking and not swayed by emotion. I'll leave it at that.

No reason to be sorry! Thank you for answering, I was really curious since it’s been discussed...

 

[Love Never Fails]

I completely agree with you that DA may is more impressive than Jennifer Viehman, and that he needs to be the one doing the bulk of the heavy lifting in the courtroom.
He has a more commanding presence than Atty. Viehman, which is unsurprising, since he's her boss.

This is a high profile case. A very high profile case.

I fully anticipate that DA May will keep a firm hold of the prosecutorial reigns on this one.
He knows what's at stake.

JMO.

Gordian,
The DA has this wrapped up, IMO. And I really do hope DA May presents this case, as he comes across more assured and forceful. I notice Jennifer got a couple of dates wrong. Maybe she was nervous. But he appeared more polished in his delivery.

I love throwing theories out there though. Like the fact I believe the detectives may still be looking hard at RS and just haven’t been able to solidify leads yet. So it is fun for me to argue and discuss all sides.

Any issues I have are usually not with a DA, but how the LE seem to bungle things. Without KK would they have ever really examined that home for blood evidence? I think this is small town LE who erred. Who knows? Maybe they are buddies with PFs brother who works in LE in CO Sprgs. All I know is were it not for her, they may have closed the case. Then the DA would have had nothing to work with.

In the end, I do not believe there will be any surprises here, except we may see even more damning evidence, maybe even another girlfriend or two with harrowing stories of PF. And that may be because DA May told LE to get off their rear and work the case. JMO.

ETA: I should give credit for blood evidence strictly to KBs mom and KBs Brother.
But it was KK who told them she cleaned up and were it nor for her, LE would have let it go a second time. Defense will tear into this small town LE group.

 

[GordianKnot]

Gordian,
The DA has this wrapped up, IMO.

Any issues I have are usually not with a DA, but how the LE seem to bungle things. Without KK would they have ever really examined that home for blood evidence? I think this is small town LE who erred. Who knows? Maybe they are buddies with PFs brother who works in LE in CO Sprgs. All I know is were it not for her, they may have closed the case. Then the DA would have had nothing to work with.

ETA: I should give credit for blood evidence strictly to KBs mom and KBs Brother.
But it was KK who told them she cleaned up and were it nor for her, LE would have let it go a second time. Defense will tear into this small town LE group.

RSABBM:

Agree with the bolded points above.

KK directly led LE to evidence in the case, which has doubtless been invaluable.
DA May spoke to that a bit in the video linked on the previous page.

In addition to having led LE to direct evidence in the case already, KK's testimony is also going to be critical to securing a conviction in this case.
Her testimony will be supported by the "voluminous" (as the DA himself describes it) circumstantial evidence that he will bring forward to corroborate KK's account of events, and prove PF's guilt.
KK's testimony is what is going to provide context to the jury for much of the evidence that will be presented.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to PF's calling her to tell her she needed to get her keister to CO because she "had a mess to clean up."

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the horrific scene she walked into at KB's townhome when she went to clean up PF's bloody mess.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the bonfire at the Frazee ranch and the burning of the black tote which is purported to have contained KB's body.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the multiple solicitations that PF made of her, and the specific plans he asked her to execute, e.g. poison Starbucks, baseball bat attack, etc.

The proverbial fat lady's gonna' be singing like a canary on the stand.

And after she's warbled her last note, it's all over for PF.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Interesting point, I hadn’t thought of it that way. Admittedly I’m unfamiliar with the Rodeo Queen process. I had the feeling it was sort of an honorary title handed down through the generations of rodeo families. Like debutantes. Is it an actual election process?

I’m ignorant of this myself.

I thought this was like “prom queen” or something.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Interesting point, I hadn’t thought of it that way. Admittedly I’m unfamiliar with the Rodeo Queen process. I had the feeling it was sort of an honorary title handed down through the generations of rodeo families. Like debutantes. Is it an actual election process?

I don’t know. I was just being smart mouthed. LOL. I am sorry.
I tend to be pretty jaded about those things, thinking it is like a popularity contest or just who you know.

 

[Love Never Fails]

RSABBM:

Agree with the bolded points above.

KK directly led LE to evidence in the case, which has doubtless been invaluable.
DA May spoke to that a bit in the video linked on the previous page.

In addition to having led LE to direct evidence in the case already, KK's testimony is also going to be critical to securing a conviction in this case.
Her testimony will be supported by the "voluminous" (as the DA himself describes it) circumstantial evidence that he will bring forward to corroborate KK's account of events, and prove PF's guilt.
KK's testimony is what is going to provide context to the jury for much of the evidence that will be presented.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to PF's calling her to tell her she needed to get her keister to CO because she "had a mess to clean up."

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the horrific scene she walked into at KB's townhome when she went to clean up PF's bloody mess.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the bonfire at the Frazee ranch and the burning of the black tote which is purported to have contained KB's body.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the multiple solicitations that PF made of her, and the specific plans he asked her to execute, e.g. poison Starbucks, baseball bat attack, etc.

The proverbial fat lady's gonna' be singing like a canary on the stand.

And after she's warbled her last note, it's all over for PF.

JMO.

You wrapped it up nicely. I agree. DA May has got this. I hope he is the one who presents the case.

 

[ab01]

a bit off topic, but I was curious

Apparently they are somewhat similar to beauty pageants, with judging etc . i'll be darned

Rodeo queen - Wikipedia

 

[GordianKnot]

a bit off topic, but I was curious

Apparently they are somewhat similar to beauty pageants, with judging etc . i'll be darned

Rodeo queen - Wikipedia

Do you get a tiara if you're crowned rodeo queen?
Who would even want to be a rodeo queen if they didn't get a tiara?
It would be pointless.

JMO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I don’t know. I was just being smart mouthed. LOL. I am sorry.
I tend to be pretty jaded about those things, thinking it is like a popularity contest or just who you know.

a bit off topic, but I was curious

Apparently they are somewhat similar to beauty pageants, with judging etc . i'll be darned

Rodeo queen - Wikipedia

LNF, it’s totally ok, I see what you mean now, the ones who run in the same circles may pat each other’s back, so to speak. AB01, thanks, the judging part helps me make the connection. I can see the good ole boy circle who are on these judging panels would likely have connections in the town mayors and LE.

But would that good ole boy circle extend from rural Idaho into Colorado? These rodeo circles may be that big out West, I don’t know? I know I’ve seen college alumni circles run really deep. Lucrative job offers can often depend on them.

 

[Oregon]

I'm sorry, steeltowngirl, I think I started that earlier. And yes, I was being a bit facetious in using that term Jurors don't have to be mensa, naturally, I just prefer jurors who are cable of critical thinking and not swayed by emotion. I'll leave it at that.

I agree, however, I think the emotional juror favors conviction. After testimony, I don’t think PF or KK will be able to draw a single sympathetic tear. The brutality, stupidity, and inhumanity of those two is the deal breaker.

 

[MemPat]

I’m ignorant of this myself.

I thought this was like “prom queen” or something.

If their tradition is anything like the "horse families" in my town, the contests are very much about legacies - families who for generations have shown their horses and their daughters.

Beauty and brains take a backseat to Granddaddy's money and unattractive girls sometimes win top billing (not that a great deal of effort isn't put into transformation).

It just is what it is.

 

[ajaylee]

If their tradition is anything like the "horse families" in my town, the contests are very much about legacies - families who for generations have shown their horses and their daughters.

Beauty and brains take a backseat to Granddaddy's money and unattractive girls sometimes win top billing (not that a great deal of effort isn't put into transformation).

It just is what it is.

IIRC, KK's mother was also a rodeo queen.

 

[PommyMommy]

Proximity, the availability of certain technology, a spare interview room, who knows.

Yep. The interview was 4.5 hours long and it was audio and video-recorded. They may not have been suited for that in Woodland Park. IIRC, KK also flew into Colorado Springs. I would have to check to be sure, though. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

It appears to be the largest police department in the area, and is probably better equipped than Woodland Park.

 

[Hatch]

Interesting point, I hadn’t thought of it that way. Admittedly I’m unfamiliar with the Rodeo Queen process. I had the feeling it was sort of an honorary title handed down through the generations of rodeo families. Like debutantes. Is it an actual election process?

Being a Rodeo Queen in my part of the world does not count for anything accept getting to wear the banner in a particular rodeo, it is usually voted on by the rodeo crowd and they pick this one this year because she has never been chosen.
No Big Deal In Texas !
With that said , it is most likely very important to the one chosen as Queen, but a short lived reign.
If being Rodeo Queen is all KK has in her Easter basket
well then Bless Her Heart ! She needs a life skills course
and to get her S--- together ! She is approaching middle age get it together !

 

[Hatch]

I’m ignorant of this myself.

I thought this was like “prom queen” or something.

Gosh @MassGuy you have no knowledge of rodeo queens ?
You are correct in assuming it is likened to Prom Queen.