Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #54 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

Patrick Frazee defense gets deadline for identifying 'alternate suspects' in Kelsey Berreth's apparent murder

SABBM:
While being quizzed about his toddler daughter at the Teller County jail days after his arrest, Frazee claimed that he'd had repeated contact with Berreth in the days following Thanksgiving.

The defense argues the statements shouldn’t be admissible because Frazee was in custody at the jail, and the DHS worker asked incriminating questions.

Prosecutors countered that the employee, Mary Longmire, was trying to find the best possible placement for Frazee’s daughter while he was jailed, and that Longmire followed the law in how she distributed the confidential information.

“She was not working at the behest of law enforcement or knowledge of law enforcement,” prosecutor Viehman said. “She was doing her job.”
___________________________

Oh, man, if these statements, i.e., lies, that PF told the DHS worker re: his having repeated contact w/ KB after the 22nd are ruled admissible by the judge, he really has put the icing on his own coffin.

It's a mixed metaphor, but you know what I mean.

Thankfully, stupidity is not a legal defense.
It was so incredibly idiotic of him to make those claims to that worker.

PF thinks he can charm women into believing whatever he tells them.
He also thinks he can manipulate them into doing whatever he wants them to do for him.
(Wonder whatever gave him that idea?)

Whatever the reason for PF's incredibly self-defeating behavior, I'm sure DA May isn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

Well Miranda warnings are meant to prevent a person from feeling pressured into self incrimination by the circumstances of being arrested, interrogated and a law enforcement authority doing the questioning or being present.

I guess the second circuit felt CPS workers could be considered law enforcement agents of some sort. It didn't seem right to me but circumstance is important. If the worker was yelling and intimidating and reporting to LE, it could pose a problem, apparently, in some jurisdictions.

One case I read involved the tone of the interrogator. The record indicated the defendant was having a calm and cordial conversation.

But I don't know. CPS workers aren't about conducting investigations that lead to criminal charges. It's about investigations that determine whether kids are removed or not.

So who is doing the interrogating and for what purpose seems important.

ETA: It's not whether they are also actual known law enforcement officials but whether they may be considered such. So in various cases it was considered that fire marshals might be akin to LE or or IRS agents.

But considered doesn't mean established.

Oh, ok, I get it.
I think.
I thought they at least could bring charges of child abuse and neglect, but ultimately it would be the courts decision, I guess. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Patrick Frazee defense gets deadline for identifying 'alternate suspects' in Kelsey Berreth's apparent murder

SABBM:
While being quizzed about his toddler daughter at the Teller County jail days after his arrest, Frazee claimed that he'd had repeated contact with Berreth in the days following Thanksgiving.

The defense argues the statements shouldn’t be admissible because Frazee was in custody at the jail, and the DHS worker asked incriminating questions.

Prosecutors countered that the employee, Mary Longmire, was trying to find the best possible placement for Frazee’s daughter while he was jailed, and that Longmire followed the law in how she distributed the confidential information.

“She was not working at the behest of law enforcement or knowledge of law enforcement,” prosecutor Viehman said. “She was doing her job.”
___________________________

Oh, man, if these statements, i.e., lies, that PF told the DHS worker re: his having repeated contact w/ KB after the 22nd are ruled admissible by the judge, he really has put the icing on his own coffin.

It's a mixed metaphor, but you know what I mean.

Thankfully, stupidity is not a legal defense.
It was so incredibly idiotic of him to make those claims to that worker.

PF thinks he can charm women into believing whatever he tells them.
He also thinks he can manipulate them into doing whatever he wants them to do for him.
(Wonder whatever gave him that idea?)

Whatever the reason for PF's incredibly self-defeating behavior, I'm sure DA May isn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

JMO.

I wonder who the alternate suspect could be?

 

[gitana1]

Oh, ok, I get it.
I think.
I thought they at least could bring charges of child abuse and neglect, but ultimately it would be the courts decision, I guess. Imo

The can't bring criminal charges. But I guess a situation in which they collaborated with LE and went in and questioned a defendant in custody, at the direction of LE or with LE present, could be problematic in some jurisdictions.

 

[gitana1]

I wonder who the alternate suspect could be?

KK. Or whatever her initials are. They're going to accuse her.

 

[MassGuy]

KK. Or whatever her initials are. They're going to accuse her.

They really have to.

Accuse anyone else, and her testimony is still very problematic.

Accuse her, and not only do you refute what she says by calling her a liar, but you say that she’s lying because she’s the real killer.

You claim that she’s lying to protect herself from going to prison for the rest of her life.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Patrick Frazee asking court to exclude 16-page child welfare assessment – Brinkwire

 

[NWLady]

I can't wait to see the proof, if any even exists, that KK was not in Colorado at the time that KB was murdered.

I'd say (JMO), that the defense will rip KK's stories/testimony to shreds and in the end, her testimony could possibly hurt the prosecutors because the defense will be able to instill lots of doubt into the jurors because after all, KK had a lot to gain by agreeing to testify for the prosecution because if she had not agreed, she wouldn't have been offered a deal in the 1st place. That is obvious. Regardless, in the end..... Yes, I want PF to be found guilty and be sentenced to life in prison - that is #1 priority (IMO). But also, I want others that were involved to also be held accountable and punished for any and all roles they played regarding their actions, participation, planning, getting rid of evidence, etc., etc.

 

[MassGuy]

I can't wait to see the proof, if any even exists, that KK was not in Colorado at the time that KB was murdered.

I'd say (JMO), that the defense will rip KK's stories/testimony to shreds and in the end, her testimony could possibly hurt the prosecutors because the defense will be able to instill lots of doubt into the jurors because after all, KK had a lot to gain by agreeing to testify for the prosecution because if she had not agreed, she wouldn't have been offered a deal in the 1st place. That is obvious. Regardless, in the end..... Yes, I want PF to be found guilty and be sentenced to life in prison - that is #1 priority (IMO). But also, I want others that were involved to also be held accountable and punished for any and all roles they played regarding their actions, participation, planning, getting rid of evidence, etc., etc.

I want to see the proof that she was in Colorado.

There is apparently strong evidence that she was not, and PF was the only one responsible.

So I’d need to see evidence that refutes what law enforcement has, compelling evidence that she was in Colorado, and a solid explanation for how she could be responsible, and PF not involved at all.

Because in the end, he’s the only one facing murder charges. If he walks, then no one will pay for this.

KK certainly won’t

Rip her story to shreds, and you still have his lies, the cell phone evidence, the video of him returning to the house, and the physical evidence that corroborates KK’s account.

 

[MsBetsy]

KK. Or whatever her initials are. They're going to accuse her.

Yes, I was just being sarcastic.
I can't imagine who else it could be that he would accuse, and if there were, it would certainly come as a big surprise. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

They really have to.

Accuse anyone else, and her testimony is still very problematic.

Accuse her, and not only do you refute what she says by calling her a liar, but you say that she’s lying because she’s the real killer.

You claim that she’s lying to protect herself from going to prison for the rest of her life.

Yeah, I think that would be the best, and maybe the only defense they can use.

Haven't we all been waiting for PF to point the finger at her?

I can't think of anyone else it could be, except someone who may have helped her. Imo

 

[GordianKnot]

They really have to.

Accuse anyone else, and her testimony is still very problematic.

Accuse her, and not only do you refute what she says by calling her a liar, but you say that she’s lying because she’s the real killer.

You claim that she’s lying to protect herself from going to prison for the rest of her life.

I want to see the proof that she was in Colorado.

There is apparently strong evidence that she was not, and PF was the only one responsible.

So I’d need to see evidence that refutes what law enforcement has, compelling evidence that she was in Colorado, and a solid explanation for how she could be responsible, and PF not involved at all.

Because in the end, he’s the only one facing murder charges. If he walks, then no one will pay for this.

KK certainly won’t

Rip her story to shreds, and you still have his lies, the cell phone evidence, the video of him returning to the house, and the physical evidence that corroborates KK’s account.

Re: the "KK's the real killer" alternate theory.
That dog won't hunt, Massy. Or bark. Or sit. Or shake. Or even lie down.
It might play dead, but that's about it.

See, there are these pesky little things called "evidence" and "facts" that PF's "Defenders" are going to have to try to work around.

You've just enumerated a number of the facts that aren't lining up with a potential
"KK's the real murderer" narrative.

• KK's location at the time KB is last heard from, i.e., the 22nd, doesn't fit.
• KB's and PF's phones traveling together to the Franch on the 22nd doesn't fit.
• KB's and PF's phones traveling together for 2 days subsequent to the murder doesn't fit.
• PF lying about having contact w/ KB after the 22nd doesn't fit.
• PF's lying to both LE and KB's mom doesn't fit.
• The burn at the Franch doesn't fit.
• KK telling LE all the places they could find evidence that KB had been murdered doesn't fit.

And that's only some of the evidence.
Criminal cases aren't tried in the media.
The prosecution has not made public all of the evidence they have in this case.
The DA is not a halfwit.
Dan May was not duped into giving "the real killer" a sweetie beauty of a deal in exchange for testimony against an innocent patsy.
PF is many things, but an innocent patsy is not one of them.

In "The Defenders'" defense, they're attempting the impossible here.
Logically, there's no way to defend the indefensible.

PF has completely hamstrung the defense with his Wile E. Coyote-like maneuvers.
He didn't even need an ACME kit.
"KABOOM!"
"THUD!"
"Guilty, Your Honor."

"Th-th-th-that's all, folks!"

JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

I can't wait to see the proof, if any even exists, that KK was not in Colorado at the time that KB was murdered.

I'd say (JMO), that the defense will rip KK's stories/testimony to shreds and in the end, her testimony could possibly hurt the prosecutors because the defense will be able to instill lots of doubt into the jurors because after all, KK had a lot to gain by agreeing to testify for the prosecution because if she had not agreed, she wouldn't have been offered a deal in the 1st place. That is obvious. Regardless, in the end..... Yes, I want PF to be found guilty and be sentenced to life in prison - that is #1 priority (IMO). But also, I want others that were involved to also be held accountable and punished for any and all roles they played regarding their actions, participation, planning, getting rid of evidence, etc., etc.

Well, in the end we probably won't have both. I doubt KK will ever be fully charged for her role in the murder as long as the jury believes her and they believe PF actually killed her.

The worst case scenario to me is if there is solid evidence that she was not in Colorado the day of the murder and the jury still does not find her credible and can't reach a decision.

If the defense is going to accuse her of the murder than there would have to be some kind of proof that Kelsey was not killed until after she arrived, I would think. Imo

 

[NWLady]

DBM

 

[girlhasnoname]

Well, in the end we probably won't have both. I doubt KK will ever be fully charged for her role in the murder as long as the jury believes her and they believe PF actually killed her.

The worst case scenario to me is if there is solid evidence that she was not in Colorado the day of the murder and the jury still does not find her credible and can't reach a decision.

If the defense is going to accuse her of the murder than there would have to be some kind of proof that Kelsey was not killed until after she arrived, I would think. Imo

BBM
^^^ THIS
Believe me it pains me to even type this because I loathe PF like few other killers I've followed here, BUT, the time and COD are going to be the prosecution's biggest hurdles to overcome IMO.

Yes, PF has lied his arse off about the when, where and why's but without Kelsey's remains and COD/Time the Defense will argue Kelsey was alive until after KK showed up.

MOO

 

[NWLady]

I want to see the proof that she was in Colorado.

There is apparently strong evidence that she was not, and PF was the only one responsible.

So I’d need to see evidence that refutes what law enforcement has, compelling evidence that she was in Colorado, and a solid explanation for how she could be responsible, and PF not involved at all.

Because in the end, he’s the only one facing murder charges. If he walks, then no one will pay for this.

KK certainly won’t

Rip her story to shreds, and you still have his lies, the cell phone evidence, the video of him returning to the house, and the physical evidence that corroborates KK’s account.

Ok, I will put it this way and maybe it will be easier for me to make my point - I would like to see proof of WHERE she was on Thanksgiving Day. Whether it be in Idado, Las Vegas, Bahamas, Colorado, etc. (and IMO, proof isn't a family member saying they had Thanksgiving dinner with her in Idaho, LOL)

And BBM - did I anywhere in my post say PF was not involved? Nope, I sure didn't. In fact, I said quite the opposite.

And if he walks (which I hope he doesn't because as I've said numerous times I do feel HE IS GUILTY, yes GUILTY), but IF he does walk, who or what is to blame for that? Those are answers we won't know until it goes to trial. However, I'd say it is possible that maybe the sweet deal the prosecution offered KK in order to help prove their case against him, wasn't so strong after all?? Yet so many posters believe that everything KK has said is written in stone and holds so much weight, so if that is the case, there shouldn't be any problem in prosecuting him using her testimony and all the "compelling evidence" they have, and again, I do hope that is the case because I do believe he is guilty! However, none of us at this time know how it will end. The trial will bring out all these answers, but until then, nobody knows here or anywhere for that matter, how it may end, do we? So until then, we are all free to have our own opinions and post what our opinions are, so JMO, MOO, etc. And I don't have a problem with agreeing to disagree.

 

[MassGuy]

Ok, I will put it this way and maybe it will be easier for me to make my point - I would like to see proof of WHERE she was on Thanksgiving Day. Whether it be in Idado, Las Vegas, Bahamas, Colorado, etc. (and IMO, proof isn't a family member saying they had Thanksgiving dinner with her in Idaho, LOL)

And BBM - did I anywhere in my post say PF was not involved? Nope, I sure didn't. In fact, I said quite the opposite.

And if he walks (which I hope he doesn't because as I've said numerous times I do feel HE IS GUILTY, yes GUILTY), but IF he does walk, who or what is to blame for that? Those are answers we won't know until it goes to trial. However, I'd say it is possible that maybe the sweet deal the prosecution offered KK in order to help prove their case against him, wasn't so strong after all?? Yet so many posters believe that everything KK has said is written in stone and holds so much weight, so if that is the case, there shouldn't be any problem in prosecuting him using her testimony and all the "compelling evidence" they have, and again, I do hope that is the case because I do believe he is guilty! However, none of us at this time know how it will end. The trial will bring out all these answers, but until then, nobody knows here or anywhere for that matter, how it may end, do we? So until then, we are all free to have our own opinions and post what our opinions are, so JMO, MOO, etc. And I don't have a problem with agreeing to disagree.

I never claimed that you said PF wasn’t involved. I didn’t even imply it.

I also never said that people weren’t free to post their opinions.

I was merely offering mine in regards to what the defense has to overcome.

This is weird.

 

[gitana1]

I can't wait to see the proof, if any even exists, that KK was not in Colorado at the time that KB was murdered.

I'd say (JMO), that the defense will rip KK's stories/testimony to shreds and in the end, her testimony could possibly hurt the prosecutors because the defense will be able to instill lots of doubt into the jurors because after all, KK had a lot to gain by agreeing to testify for the prosecution because if she had not agreed, she wouldn't have been offered a deal in the 1st place. That is obvious. Regardless, in the end..... Yes, I want PF to be found guilty and be sentenced to life in prison - that is #1 priority (IMO). But also, I want others that were involved to also be held accountable and punished for any and all roles they played regarding their actions, participation, planning, getting rid of evidence, etc., etc.

Well she's done. They're not charging her with anything else.

 

[gitana1]

I want to see the proof that she was in Colorado.

There is apparently strong evidence that she was not, and PF was the only one responsible.

So I’d need to see evidence that refutes what law enforcement has, compelling evidence that she was in Colorado, and a solid explanation for how she could be responsible, and PF not involved at all.

Because in the end, he’s the only one facing murder charges. If he walks, then no one will pay for this.

KK certainly won’t

Rip her story to shreds, and you still have his lies, the cell phone evidence, the video of him returning to the house, and the physical evidence that corroborates KK’s account.

Bingo.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, I was just being sarcastic.
I can't imagine who else it could be that he would accuse, and if there were, it would certainly come as a big surprise. Imo

Ha ha! Got it!