CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #6

[1mtroyal]

I think that he still has the baby.

35 acres is a small area to me, maybe 2,000 feet by 1,000 feet. I could walk around the perimeter in 20 minutes.

 

[alucardsdream]

Again, for context, I lean toward foul play from someone close to home.

But I also feel we shouldn’t make assumptions based on the cars being left in the driveway. Some commenters are acting like it’s next to impossible for her to have gone on a trip if her car is still there. But I am only a few years older than Kelsey and I have gone on holiday trips on Amtrak, Greyhounds, rideshares etc. and routinely use taxis, Ubers, Lyfts etc too.

I am totally okay with us having a most likely scenario, but I don’t think we should close the door on any possibility until we get the facts to do so. Like if we find out a specific person picked her up, then we know she left with them and not with a taxi.

If we close doors too quickly, we could close the one that leads to an answer.

I thought about her possibly using Uber, but you have to have an account and use a credit or debit card, so I'm thinking LE would have been able to tell if she did so.

 

[Seattle1]

Police continue to search home of missing woman’s fiance

Details about what the search would cover on Saturday were not released, but Chief Miles J. De Young said the case “is the number one priority for the Woodland Park Police Department.”

De Young said the couple’s 1-year-old daughter remains with her father, who is continuing to cooperate with law enforcement during the investigation.

He also said his department continues to be in contact with the Teller County Department of Human Services in regard to the child’s custody, adding that department “does not have evidence that [the child’s] safety is at risk while in Patrick Frazee’s custody.” BBM

 

[Kapua]

I wonder if someone who had KB's phone had business anywhere near Gooding ID and took the opportunity to send the texts on a business trip.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

I agree that they are extremely unlikely to find a body there. That being said, it does not mean that the property is not the scene of a crime, possibly a violent one.

They have to search it.

I agree

But this search is not likely to reveal much.

If he disposed of the body, it would have been in the truck bed, which they now have.

And he would have only moved it once ... most likely on the way to Idaho.

Doubtful there is any "evidence" at the ranch.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I thought about her possibly using Uber, but you have to have an account and use a credit or debit card, so I'm thinking LE would have been able to tell if she did so.

Agreed. Or it could have been connected to her PayPal. But we don’t know whether they’ve checked all those things yet or whether they’ve found anything. Plus, you can pay cash for taxis, for example, and people just chip in for gas on ride shares.

To be clear, I think she left with someone (PF or another known entity) and came into foul play, but I don’t want to be so focused on one idea that I later discover, when the case is cracked, that I missed the possibility the taxi driver did it.

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>
If they thought a stranger was responsible, I don’t think that a search warrant would have been executed on PF’s property.

They need legal justification (probable cause) for that.

All of LE’s words and actions up until this point, have indicated where they are looking.

It ain’t far.

 

[Mae’s Friend]

I agree that they are extremely unlikely to find a body there. That being said, it does not mean that the property is not the scene of a crime, possibly a violent one.

They have to search it.

I agree and the house or other property doesn’t have to be the scene of a crime. LE just needs enough evidence to show probable cause that evidence of a crime, wherever it was committed, may be at that location.

 

[epiphany]

Ok, why should LE forget the search warrant?

You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[BRRI]

Again, for context, I lean toward foul play from someone close to home.

But I also feel we shouldn’t make assumptions based on the cars being left in the driveway. Some commenters are acting like it’s next to impossible for her to have gone on a trip if her car is still there. But I am only a few years older than Kelsey and I have gone on holiday trips on Amtrak, Greyhounds, rideshares etc. and routinely use taxis, Ubers, Lyfts etc too.

I am totally okay with us having a most likely scenario, but I don’t think we should close the door on any possibility until we get the facts to do so. Like if we find out a specific person picked her up, then we know she left with them and not with a taxi.

If we close doors too quickly, we could close the one that leads to an answer.

I wonder if PF took a bus to Idaho....

 

[?mysterian?]

At this point it is a waste of time. Maybe the truck bed liner will talk and tell them something.

He surely did not bring a body back to his home to hide it. Then drive 800 miles to leave a text message.

It does not make sense

Respectfully, I disagree. LE has to go by their standard operating procedure. They had enough info that a judge gave them a search warrant. If they find any evidence, the investigation proceeds in that direction. If they find nothing, the investigation proceeds in another direction. If PF truly has nothing to hide, it won't be that big of a deal, in the long run, because if nothing is found there, it helps rule him out, IMO.

 

[whoizzit]

ZOMBIE CINNAMON BUNS... (again, back to the 50's or so. I forgot to hit the post button.)

<modsnip - OT>

• Were they baked in the morning or after Safeway? (bro says morning)
• Were they eaten warm in the morning for breakfast or afternoon? (bro says bfast)
• Were the leftovers intended as gifts or nah?
• If so, for whom?
• To be delivered when?
• Why were they left uncovered?
• <modsnip - OT>
• Would you eat cold cinnamon buns later in the day/evening if you'd left them uncovered on your counter?
• Do you always put your baked cinnies in a container or do you sometimes, like a lazy slob, put the baking tray back into the cold oven so you don't lose any icing to tinfoil touching them PLUS have them handy if you feel like eating a 2nd (or 3rd, if we're being truthful) whenever you feel so moved? *raises hand
• What do the buns really tell us, if anything at all?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Not saying this is most likely..

But what do you think about the possibility she asked a shady neighbor for a ride to an airport/train/bus station?

People routinely ask for rides to be dropped off at those sorts of places when they go on a trip.

 

[leighmarker]

It may be that it was not a very clear picture. The footage that was showed may have been the best image to show what she looked like so people could recognize her. Maybe the footage of her leaving doesn't even show her face. I'm sure they have more and it may or may not have given them some answers to the questions you asked. Imo

How did she get there?

How do we know if he is deliberately keeping that baby from the grandmother?

How do we know the lawyer didn’t advise him to hunker down and not talk to KB’s family?

The child belong’s to its father, PF, until evidence leading to his arrest or until there’s evidence of the baby’s welfare at stake.

I am suspicious of PF too but there needs to be evidence before jumping to conclusions. I’m trying to work with facts and keep emotions out of it.

If there is no custody agreement I would assume possession is 9/10s of the law. If he lets someone else have the baby they might try and keep her?

 

[Deleted member 169742]

There doesn't have to be a body found, they're also looking for any evidence that may show PF did something to KB. Computers, trace evidence from his truck, clothes that may have blood on them...they would be looking for anything like that. They certainly don't open all the dresser drawers because they think there might be a body in there.

Quite true

But, we must balance that with the likelihood PF is a hunter. All hunters know how to detect and dispose of attire with blood ... that stuff messes hunting up. He is not likely to have tossed his Jean's in the barn, to be found and used later.

Yes, the truck is good evidence.

After that, there is not likely much else.

30 acres is a small place ... 20 LE guys can search it well in 4 hours ... not 3 days.

 

[MassGuy]

Not saying this is most likely..

But what do you think about the possibility she asked a shady neighbor for a ride to an airport/train/bus station?

People routinely ask for rides to be dropped off at those sorts of places when they go on a trip.

But why would this neighbor go to the effort of misdirection?

And how would he know who to text?

And how would he access her phone in the first place if she had a password on it?

And why is there apparently no tracking data on it?

And why didn’t her fiancé report her missing?

And why does LE think that this didn’t happen (judging by their words at the press conference and that search warrant)?

There’s just too much leaning against a scenario like that, atleast for me.

 

[BRRI]

If they thought a stranger was responsible, I don’t think that a search warrant would have been executed on PF’s property.

They need legal justification (probable cause) for that.

All of LE’s words and actions up until this point, have indicated where they are looking.

It ain’t far.

<modsnip - reward rumor>

Also, are there many cases where a search warrant isn’t granted for a spouse/significant other? Still need probable cause, but that’s not that hard to establish for a significant other, especially if they had broken up that day (and maybe texted someone his anger over it?), he was last to see her, and if she was seen in his car that day.

 

[MsBetsy]

How did she get there?

If there is no custody agreement I would assume possession is 9/10s of the law. If he lets someone else have the baby they might try and keep her?

We don't know how she got there but it would appear that she made it home if it's true that FP picked up the baby at her house.
In regard to the baby it is up to the father to decide if he wants the grandmother to see her. Considering the circumstances, it seems very unusual that he didn't let the grandma see the baby. He could have stayed there with her and let her hold her and spend some time with her granddaughter. What would be the harm in that? Considering what this mother is going through with her daughter missing it would be the natural thing to do.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

Police continue to search home of missing woman’s fiance

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I am mostly just saying if someone like a neighbor gave her a ride, is he afraid to mention it now bc he thinks he’d label himself a suspect?

I agree a neighbor actually driving her or himself to Idaho isn’t likely. Though, in theory, anyone who could be caught would benefit from misdirection. You could probably find her work info on her phone by reading her text message threads. I don’t know if her phone was locked. And PF wouldn’t report bc—let’s say—hypothetically, she told him she’s going out of town for a while and not to bother her.

I am mostly just continuing to advocate for keeping possibilities open (even just a little bit) until we have facts that eliminate them for us.

But why would this neighbor go to the effort of misdirection?

And how would he know who to text?

And how would he access her phone in the first place if she had a password on it?

And why is there apparently no tracking data on it?

And why didn’t her fiancé report her missing?

And why does LE think that this didn’t happen (judging by their words at the press conference and that search warrant)?

There’s just too much leaning against a scenario like that, atleast for me.