CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

[PommyMommy]

Law enforcement vehicles seen leaving Patrick Frazee’s home
The Colorado Bureau of Investigation said police activity at Patrick Frazee’s home Tuesday morning was a “routine follow up” to the search over the weekend.

A News 5 photographer spotted five vehicles leaving the Frazee property late Tuesday morning. CBI spokesperson Susan Medina said no arrests have been made in connection to Kelsey’s disappearance.

 

[allboys]

According to this reporter, today’s follow-up search at PF’s property, was unusual.

”I just got off the phone with an experienced investigator. He says following up a couple days after serving a search warrant is *not* routine.” #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

ETA: We don’t know if it was a “search,” but a convoy of law enforcement vehicles was seen leaving his property.

Is it possible that he’s been arrested and he’s IN one of those vehicles?

Edited to add: I just saw PommyMommy’s post. Darn. I guess no arrest.

 

[Gardener1850]

So, both posters here that have commented that they didn’t get a smart phone recently, have also both said they are not good at technology. If you use that as the basis of speculation, PF likely didn’t manipulate that ping or the phone. If he did this, it was either a false ping (by fault of a glitch) or he was physically in Idaho.

Exactly. My speculation is he actually drove to Idaho to send texts from KB's phone. And if he did that, then the attempt to throw LE off will be his undoing. JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Is it possible that he’s been arrested and he’s IN one of those vehicles?

From what I’ve read, there has been no arrest.

Unfortunately.

 

[CDB]

But why didn't she take either of the 2 vehicles she owns?

For what it is worth I rent vehicles when I travel so I do not put excessive miles on my own car. However, I think it would be very hard to rent one under a false name as they require Drivers license and a major credit card to insure against damages. So I had originally gone down the path of her going on a trip on her own, but the lack of available transport that is not tied to her makes that unlikely.

 

[PrairieWind]

A "working dog" still needs to be treated humanely. As several experienced in dog training on here have pointed out, there is a way to train animals humanely and PF wasn't doing it. The dogs in his video were terrified. That's my opinion after seeing the videos. PF is a very angry man. JMO

What in the video shows in humane treatment of the dogs?

 

[moonlessnight]

the inconsistency is the aunt saying PF picked up the baby at KB's, and other reports stating KB picked up baby at PF's.

Nothing inconsistent about PF collecting child Thanksgiving afternoon -- that's what he told LE.

 

[sloane7777]

The majority seem to be pointing the finger at PF (and I tend to agree) but I’m curious if there’s anyone who believes KB left on her own accord or that someone else (not PF) is responsible?

No not after the animal thing MOO

 

[jaspermac]

It wouldn’t just be an effort to send a message, although that would be an effect of it.

They had a purpose, and I hope it leads to something.

Agree. I just meant having 5 vehicles there. What purpose for follow up would you need 5? If it wasn't an arrest? But I guess we don't know for sure if it wasn't for the purpose of arrest- what if it was they went there and he wasn't there? Are you going to broadcast you are arresting him, or look in the next spot he might be first? I am probably stretching big time here, because i want that to happen.

 

[Lhughessk]

Oh man, your post created a new question for me. I hadn't considered that her phone may have been locked. I have face ID and a passcode on my iphone, my old iphone had fingerprint recognition. If her phone had a lock, whoever unlocked her phone - presumably the day they sent texts - would have had to have known her code or had access to her?

What if the phone pinged because they turned it on in order to send the texts... but when they ran into a passcode problem, they turned it back off and used a laptop or tablet to send the texts from their wireless carrier’s account? I know that when I was with Verizon, I could go to My Verizon on my computer and choose to Send A Message. It wouldn’t show me as the sender in the same way as a normal text, though. It would show to the recipient something like [email protected] as the sender (where the digits were actually my phone number).

 

[heli]

Wow 5 vehicles for followup.. Wouldn't it be great if he was in one vehicle & the baby was in another? I love to dream!

 

[PommyMommy]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
He says he thinks police missed something. Could also mean they took pictures of something but then decided they wanted to examine it themselves. #KelseyBerreth

(In response to, "What does experienced investigator think the reason is they returned?")

 

[ReadySet]

bbm
What tweet?

The way I see it, if Kelsey moved into PF's house, living there would have meant, also contributing into working at that farm. And she wanted to further her career, her dream job. Good for her! (So if they were in a big city, PF would have been the person taking a "paternity leave"). But she was also the mother, so she moved in as close to his farm as possible, making long commutes to Pueblo. A lot fell on her during that year.

Does it fit with the posts I come across accidentally, in other places, that taking off was typical for her? Not at all. Does it bode well with that tweet stating that she had issues with substances? No, because, sorry, she was pregnant, no drinking, then, possibly, breastfeeding (not sure - interested to know), and then was commuting and working. And she was employed.

Taking time off work for long times,as that author says, does not fit in, either way.

So I would like to know who, and why, wrote that tweet, showing PF as a guy who has been through a lot and the stable one, and her, as the person with issues. I don't see her a person with issues, I see her as a chronically tired young woman, trying to be a good mom, and commuting to work, and advancing her career, and staying close to PF's farm, for the sake of raising her child with both parents.

Many women these days are working and raising small kids. It is easier in bigger cities and also is viewed there as the norm. Not sure about the farms. I think Kelsey was really trying her hardest to grow professionally, and be a mom, and it was very hard, but I trust her mom when she says taking off spontaneously was not typical for her.

Either something very bad happened, and she planned to take off, or someone cut it all short.

 

[GordianKnot]

It does. They had a purpose, and it wasn’t to have a chat with him.

Gee, MG, I don't know...the guy just screams "scintillating conversationalist" to me.

 

[gitana1]

Noting , getting kicked in the head bad enough can lead to anger issues , bad enough to kill someone IE; Charles Whitman, Charles Manson, Henry Lee Lucas ....Aaron Hernandez , just sayin

Oh! Good point!!

 

[Colorado303]

It does. They had a purpose, and it wasn’t to have a chat with him.

May be my imagination but seemed to me they were coming down that dirt driveway a mite faster than usual.

 

[SandyQLS]

I have watched the dog videos and see absolutely nothing wrong there. That is how cattle dogs behave and are trained. Nothing out of the ordinary there. There is no cowering by the dogs. I still believe PF is mostly likely guilty here, but there is nothing in those videos that concerns me.

I don't see a problem either. The cattle dog that becomes a family pet was culled from the litter at a young age for passivity or other reasons of temperament.

I know someone who invests in a type if rodeo horse. They buy one with specific breeding and good composition, then send it to a trainer. Once they sold a trained horse for $30,000 making a tidy capital gain. But there was another one where the trainer called to tell them they had purchased a very expensive pet. They sold it to a family with kids for pleasure riding, at a big loss. The horse simply did not have the temperament to be a working animal.

 

[Gardener1850]

According to this reporter, today’s follow-up search at PF’s property, was unusual.

”I just got off the phone with an experienced investigator. He says following up a couple days after serving a search warrant is *not* routine.” #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

ETA: We don’t know if it was a “search,” but a convoy of law enforcement vehicles was seen leaving his property.

Very interesting!

 

[MassGuy]

Gee, MG, I don't know...the guy just screams "scintillating conversationalist" to me.

It’s probably a cross between having a conversation with Chris Watts and a horse.

Not that I’m willing to call him a murderer just yet.

 

[Cherokee]

I would also like to know if this info was ever verified. Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the rumor started sometime last Wednesday/Thursday with a forum member that was insinuating (though never confirmed or verified) that they were related to PF. They said the grandmother was disabled and "takes good care of her grandbaby." I tried to find a link to the comment, but it looks like the member has closed their account. Other established members tried to get this poster to become verified and asked that they not derail the board with unverified information, but it can't be unheard (unread).

Thank you so much!

You are correct that once something is posted online, whether true/verified or not, it unfortunately often becomes part of the case lore that is copied over and over.

Even if PF's mother has some type of disability, it does not preclude her from taking care of her grand-baby. It also does not mean PF "takes care of" his mother. If she can look after a baby/toddler, she is well enough to take care of herself. Patrick is his mother's youngest child. He could be living with her and helping her with the ranchette, but the assumption he is also caring for his mother is just that - an assumption.