CO - Mass shooting at King Soopers, 10 fatalities including 1 LEO, Boulder, 22 Mar 2021 *arrest*

  • #401
Not terrorism. I think this was all about AA.

I strongly suspect that you are right.

AA prior to the rampage was a criminally aggressive individual with a bad attitude and who might not be the uhmm.... "sharpest tool in the shed".

Not surprisingly, the totality of the above gave him little prospects for a meaningful relationship with the opposite sex or meaningful employment.

Though Jihader ring leaders do seek out and recruit AAs, there is nothing really to show that he was self radicalized or had been recruited. No constant use of religious imagery, no sudden conversions from say nominally Muslim to extremely devout, no apparent participation in Jihader forums etc.

Instead of fixating on Jihad theology, he complains about "rich kids" and their easy access to the cool cars. Of course, AA makes little personal effort to better himself economically.

In fact, AA seems to resemble this shooter to the "T":
2015 Chapel Hill shooting.

- Angry atheist with a history of aggressive confrontations and dead end jobs is gradually failing at marriage number two.

- Meanwhile, the "rich" dental students nearby are moving up financially and living meaningful lives. Resentment builds. The fact that they are practicing Muslims annoys him further.

- He then goes on a rampage over a minor parking issue and murders them.
 
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  • #402
Suspect in Boulder mass shooting that killed 10 people bought assault rifle 6 days earlier, according to affidavit

I am interested in this article, the family said that he had "mental health problems". What else did his family know? What is a family responsibility for a family member who has a weapon, and has mental illness?
Just noticed this, he bought the rifle on March 16, same day as the Atlanta shooting. Maybe just coincidence, but I wonder what time of day he bought it.
 
  • #403
Just noticed this, he bought the rifle on March 16, same day as the Atlanta shooting. Maybe just coincidence, but I wonder what time of day he bought it.
That is an interesting (and disturbing) possibility to consider.

jmo
 
  • #404
The young people's tributes are especially hard - they were around the same age as their killer but had so much going for them!! Interests, jobs, connections. We lost good ones this week.

It's nice to read all the tributes. Thanks for posting them here. I was hesitant to click links to the stories because I know I will cry. But I'm glad to read them right here on the thread, proud of these people, sympathetic to their loved ones. (And yes, crying.)

jmo

The young generation deserves so much more. They've had to grow up with too many of these horrible events, bad economic times, etc. We owe them a better future. JMO
 
  • #405
Just noticed this, he bought the rifle on March 16, same day as the Atlanta shooting. Maybe just coincidence, but I wonder what time of day he bought it.

The Georgia spa shootings happened late in the afternoon and it took a while before the shootings were reported in the news. Even with the two hour time difference it is unlikely that event triggered buying the rifle.
 
  • #406
Yes, I would think if police believed this was an act of terrorism the FBI would be leading the investigation.

It seems more likely the killer believed he was being persecuted or targeted because of his race or religious beliefs (the "grievance,") and because of his anger issues, was likely a time bomb waiting to go off. That he was anti-social, and possibly isolating (since the neighbors said they rarely saw him,) and possibly emotionally disturbed, may have been a dangerous combination.

I haven't seen any mention of him having a job. What did he do in the years after he graduated from high school? Was he just living in the family home and not attending college or working?
The FBI and the local authorities can concurrently work on cases. One local, one federal.
 
  • #407
Boulder shooting: Chaplians, comfort dogs offer support | 9news.com

Names of 10 King Soopers shooting victims in Boulder released | 9news.com

Boulder shooting victims: Woman remembered as talented actress | 9news.com

Boulder King Soopers shooting victim Rikki Olds worked at store | 9news.com
'Rikki was living her dream': Family wants King Soopers victim remembered for her impact on others
Rikki Olds, 25, was one of the 10 people killed in a mass shooting at a Boulder supermarket.

Boulder shooting victim Neven Stanisic remembered as hard-working | 9news.com
Boulder shooting victim Neven Stanisic's family came to U.S. for new beginning
Neven Stanisic, 23, was one of the 10 people killed in a mass shooting at a Boulder King Soopers.


King Soopers shooting: Witnesses desribe mass shooting | 9news.com
'I understood what was happening': Witnesses describe chaotic scene inside and outside King Soopers
Some witnesses hid in closets, others ran from the store through any exit they could find as gunfire erupted.


Tralona 'Lona' Bartkowiak remembered by Boulder's festival community
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...iak-remembered-by-boulders-festival-community


90


Photo by: Denver7's Jaclyn Allen.
A small memorial had begun forming Tuesday outside Umba Love, a clothing store owned by Tralona "Lona" Bartkowiak, one of the 10 victims killed in a shooting at a King Soopers in Boulder.


'The light of our family:' Uncle of Rikki Olds, killed in Boulder shooting, shares her story
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...s-killed-in-boulder-shooting-shares-her-story



Multiple vigils, memorials planned Wednesday following Boulder mass shooting
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...for-wednesday-following-boulder-mass-shooting


90

Photo by: Sloan Dickey


These are the 10 victims of the Boulder King Soopers shooting
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...-victims-of-the-boulder-king-soopers-shooting


Boulder shooting vigils: Community to honor 10 victims

Fence outside King Soopers draws hundreds Tuesday to remember 10 people killed




What started as a small collection of flowers on the east side of the fence bordering a Boulder King Soopers evolved throughout the day, turning chain link fencing into an embroidery
 
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  • #408
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...-make-first-court-appearance-thursday-morning

[The man suspected of shooting and killing 10 people at a King Soopers store in Boulder Monday is expected to make his first court appearance Thursday morning in Boulder County District Court.
...
Judge Thomas Mulvahill will preside over Thursday’s hearing, which will be available for people to watch online.

Prosecutors and police have said the investigation into the shooting could take up to a year and said people should be prepared for a lengthy court process.]
 
  • #409
I have several Muslim friends that have to pretty consistently defend themselves. So his rants about Islamophobia and xenophobia online (that I’ve read so far) are definitely not enough for me to jump to the conclusion he was recruited. Waiting for more info to surface in the coming days. Moo
My .02 is that the portrait emerging of this shooter is of an angry injustice collector and an all around loser.

The killers' relatives weren't too complimentary in describing him.
Of course this is after the fact and they have to be writhing with horror and shame.
The perp has effectively ruined their lives to some degree.
He seemed to have been in a decline for sometime.

To the people wondering why didn't his family get him mental help if needed-- sometimes an adult person will refuse treatment.

Boulder shooting: Killer described as 'loner' who lived in basement of his family's home | Daily Mail Online
 
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  • #410
The negative reports from neighbors surprised me. Prior to that, I read about business neighbors and patrons that only had wonderful things to say about the family. This (positive) news was reported shortly after the shooter identified.
Yes, I read that too. Patrons said they were kind and generous, and on one occasion provided meals to a homeless person, or something like that. It could be that they just had problems with a few neighbors. We don't really know all the details.
 
  • #411
I apologize for the length.

I live an hour from Boulder. I used to work in Boulder and was the case manager for its homeless shelter. My son went to a parochial school there during that time. I’ve shopped in that store. My son later lived and worked in Boulder. The beautiful Flatirons were a climbing spot for him. Boulder is inextricably linked to so much of my history and world.

I’m broken-hearted.

And I’ve been hearing since the minute this news broke about *the* solution to mass shootings. Colorado has been through this with Columbine, Aurora, Highlands Ranch/STEM, and Planned Parenthood. In this case, people also - just suddenly - had so much all-knowingness, before the shooter was even taken into custody or the casualties were known.

Disinformation was all over the place. The police were condemned for not immediately confirming the number of casualties, as if the desire of people on Twitter to have a body count trumped family notification and connection with support resources. Etc. Etc.

Spare me.

My observation in these shootings has been that people want to designate a *thing* as the cause, because if we can just proclaim it, legislate it, re-legislate it, regulate it, arm it, disarm it, treat it, or medicate it, we won’t have to be scared anymore. Even our altitude and thin air were cited as having such impact on our brains that we go crazy in Colorado from oxygen starvation. Whatever.

I can only say this. The heaviness in this area is palpable. These precious people are Gone. For no other reason than an individual decided to drive 20 miles from Arvada to Boulder’s Table Mesa and walk through the door of a grocery store and open fire.

I do not personally buy that we need to build another mental health clinic with a wider door, or create a better drug, or obsess over projectile circumference, or wonder if bullies are to blame. He planned it, he drove there, and he shot ten people - including a person in a car that he parked next to, and a man he shot in the parking lot, then stood over and shot again. And again.

I do not care if he has mommy issues, feels slighted, encountered bigotry, couldn’t get a date, or didn’t go to prom. He destroyed innocent lives, including those of the 10 families that have to suffer with this horrible trauma for the rest of what’s left of their own lives.

I have known and continue to live with deeply personal traumatic loss. And I know this about grief: It’s the experience of Absence that’s always present. Always.

So I only care about the victims and the families. I don’t care about the inner workings or thought patterns or feelings of someone who hunted, cornered and ambushed other human beings. Other than the perfunctory reference for the official record, his name is irrelevant. And his heinous crime, albeit so tragically far-reaching, is another unimaginative and self-pacifying act that these shooters all have in common.

I’m afraid to go to my own King Soopers today. I’m going anyway. This individual has caused enough fear in Colorado. And he’s now where he belongs and will never do this again.

((Hugs)) thank you so much for writing the best post here, it echoes my sentiments exactly.
 
  • #412


 
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  • #413
We can all agree that these shootings need to stop. Learning from past massacres has shown that often family is aware of some mental decline, or issue. And getting prompt treatment and addressing mental illness is not the easiest on any family. It's almost impossible! If I recall correctly, the Dec 25, 2020 Nashville bomber's ex gf called LE, and FBI was also aware of the serious issues. Nothing was done. It was/is a legal quagmire..
In this case, however the family had been aware of AA's mental decline for some time. They lived with him, and adjusted to him. But...when a big nasty gun shows up in your home...KNOWING that your brother/son/bil has some serious issues.....you might HAVE TO act on that!!

The " See something, say something" rings a bell in this case. We have heard it before.
 
  • #414
I’m sick of “bullying” being given as an explanation for mass shootings and other heinous behavior. And I have no pity for Injustice Gatherers. None at all.

When I was a kid, “bullying” typically referred to physically threatening behavior. Now it’s a synonym for meanness. Is there anyone here, anyone at all, who can say they never once experienced meanness from neighbors or schoolmates? I know I can’t. Almost everyone is “bullied” at some point.

Some experience it rarely. Others are picked on endlessly and truly have a horrific time. But there’s little if any correlation between the extent of said bullying and a person’s likelihood to shoot a bunch of innocent people. For an IG one perceived insult could be all it takes.

IMO Injustice Gatherers were IGs first, collecting even the smallest mean or misunderstood comment to fuel their righteous indignation. Bullying didn’t make them this way, Neither did being grounded, lack of success getting dates, job rejection, physical or emotional abuse, parental divorce, witnessing violence, acne, not enough hugs, video games, sugar or a horrible home life in general. Because no matter how horrible their horrible was, something similar has “happened” to other people too. Usually lots of them. Lots of people who despite their trauma would never dream of taking an innocent life to feel better.

I’ve joined the “I don’t care what happened in their life” camp. Unlike religious and political terrorists, I’m convinced the answer to which IGs will become killers won’t be found in their emotional histories. Better to concentrate on their actions, medical history, neurological physiology, DNA or astrological chart.
 
  • #415
I would say alleged experiences.

Evidently, the investigation supporting his assault conviction could not find any justification or reason for attacking the other student.

Though he later claimed that he was bullied or harassed, this claim has not been supported by sources other than his family.

Criminals rarely, if ever, admit to unjustified attacks. Rather, the victim must have done something- right?

In the end, the shooter was a wrestler known to have an aggressive personality (threatened to kill other students, cursed at referees, threw temper tantrums etc.). Sure, its possible that he was bullied. But, was it likely?

I would be interested in learning more about the student he attacked. My guess is that he was not on say, the football team, another wrestler, or somebody capable of readily defending themselves.

Somethings never change- and that includes criminals looking for soft targets.
Well, I meant his experiences from his own perception, whether it was rational or not. He seemed to be resentful of the school and critical of his peers. He thought the school was bugging his phone, which I'm sure is not true, either. I don't know that he was bullied, but he didn't seem to have a very "likable" personality, based on some of the comments we've heard so far.

One thing mass killers tend to have in common is some sort of grievance against an individual or a particular group of people. Imo
 
  • #416


 
  • #417
The young generation deserves so much more. They've had to grow up with too many of these horrible events, bad economic times, etc. We owe them a better future. JMO

I note he's also another "I need a girlfriend" type.

These shooters all come from that generation, or mostly... I honestly think it's all too much for people. Too much social media, too much porn, too much 24/7 news telling them the world is 🤬🤬🤬🤬 even if it isn't. We have brains that evolved to cope with a completely different physical and social environment to what we live in now, we evolved in small groups that looked after and out for each other and who were mostly worried about subsistence and reproducing the next generation, not meaningless sex, appearances, & money while surrounded by strangers. This society is just so fundamentally wrong for what we evolved for, and our brains have barely started to keep up.
 
  • #418


 
  • #419
I notice many of these mass killers, serial killers, terrorists, and bullies are often sexually frustrated/repressed and have trouble fitting.
 
  • #420
You can't institutionalize someone because they might be violent. You can't force patients to take medications. Most patients with mental illness suffer the internal agony of despair and are much more likely to harm themselves than others. If you want humane conditions and not the warehousing of mentally ill patients then expect your taxes to increase ten fold.

Psychosis isn't always a result of mental illness, it can be triggered by many things: drug use, stopping drug use, drinking heavily, going cold turkey, anxiety, lupus, brain tumor, mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, multiple sclerosis, post partum depression, insomnia. And last but not least, plain old garden variety depression which has probably increased ten fold with the isolation and stress that Covid restrictions have created for many people.

I've known a couple of people who suffered with schizophrenia. They had delusions of grandeur and manic episodes which was tortuous to watch. It was scary and sad because the cycle just kept repeating itself until they'd both had enough. Suicide is much more likely than murder.

You cant force an adult to continue meds after being released from hospital , yes it is an endless cycle which repeats and repeats and is tortuous to watch . My schizophrenic brother sadly took his own life after being in this exhausting endless cycle . 29 yrs on , still no real answers for those suffering .
It is not easy for family , let's show them a bit of kindness and understanding at this time too . Gift of hindsight would be a great thing
 
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