Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #20

[PommyMommy]

I believe he planned the murders for a host of reasons. The fact that the charges against him read that the children were killed on or about Jjne 12-13th and SW was killed on June 13. The last post she made on FB was that creepy photo of the three foot doll covered with the Twister mat like a shroud. I thought my daughter’s theory was really on point regarding that. She suggested that CW made wrapping the doll up into a “game” then wrapped them up as a fun game then when he was ready to kill them he said let’s play the new twister game and wrapped them up this time suffocating them. This way he wouldn’t have to see their panicked faces. Then he lay in wait for SW. I think the financial woes and continuing to live beyond their means with another baby on the way and perhaps how so much of what they did as a family was recorded or filmed for SM. I think he wanted out and they weren’t in a financial position for a divorce. JMO Please forgive any errors. My eyes are giving out.

Thank you. It's helpful to learn why posters are going in one direction or another. I still can't come to terms with how I feel about that dang doll, lol! Increasing font size for tired eyes.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Why say I want to separate but not have your bags packed already?

Especially if you was supposedly telling her this constantly for several weeks.

 

[human]

I agree. Now watch this one!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155216426001935

I could not finish watching it. I cannot comprehend this. The two women doing nothing but yelling and Chris participating with the children. The one girl is hiding under the table.

The children are little props. It really bothers me.

 

[moonlessnight]

Can people see how on top photo, CW is holding his hand behind her neck? There is another photo with a similar position of one hand. He probably used to caress her this way, and she got used to it. He has big, strong hands. I bet this is how he strangled her.

thank you for noticing that. I find this hand position to be one of power and dominance. my ex used to do it too. at first I found it comforting but it also felt vulnerable. it's an unconscious power play and very low grade threat. I will never let anyone do that to me again. Choking by a partner is one of the highest risks of DV-related murders. The fact that he uses that hand position is a threat.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

There's discussing dynamics, and then there's pulling random stuff out of your (all-encompassing, not you specifically) a**. Seeing humiliation in those videos is about as evidence-based as saying they were illicit drug users. There's no evidence for the claim. If he was scowling, or straight-faced, or not going along with it, ok. But he is laughing and smiling and fully-participating.

It just seems to me that some people are just not okay with the dynamic that the woman is the dominant one of the relationship (or that it has to be a "problematic" dynamic if she is).

I fully respect your thoughts and opinions, but please remember others have a right to post their thoughts and opinions without being ridiculed.

 

[Charlot123]

There's discussing dynamics, and then there's pulling random stuff out of your (all-encompassing, not you specifically) a**. Seeing humiliation in those videos is about as evidence-based as saying they were illicit drug users. There's no evidence for the claim. If he was scowling, or straight-faced, or not going along with it, ok. But he is laughing and smiling and fully-participating.

It just seems to me that some people are just not okay with the dynamic that the woman is the dominant one of the relationship (or that it has to be a "problematic" dynamic if she is).

Ronso, I think is is more simple. When you put all your life out on social media, people are bound to discuss this life. I bet that for everyone here, watching the thread where she sits with the girls and talks about her life and the house, knowing how it will end - her in a shallow grave, kids in oil containers - was horribly saddening. So maybe people are sincerely trying to understand, what went wrong? How could it be avoided?

And because with CW, in fact, all is clear - it is horribly vile and cowardly what he did - people turn to the videos to see what went wrong.

I think that the case, and the process, might have some learning value. Give or take, it is an extreme case of domestic violence, a murder. Maybe we could extract something valuable, for ourselves and our kids?

I think it is not as much about how they treated each other as about social media in general. When enough is enough.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

So, she is now both a dominant personality and a passive aggressive, demanding partner.
I have seen her described as both. But she is dead and he is alive.

I was not the original poster who suggested SW was the dominate personality. We can't have it both ways whereby we try to understand what triggered this event without looking at the whole dynamic between CW and SW.
Time for me to take a break.

 

[human]

Agreed. She opens her mouth when told, lifts her shirt when told, all with a smile. I'm not seeing any apprehension.
She's laughing and screeching much in the same way my kids do when I chase them around with the hose.

I see a child who feels that she has to do as she is told. No spontaneity. Just reaction.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I just wish one of those K-9s ran up on him during the interview and started barking directly at him.

 

[Ginger_Hazel]

he seems to me to be playing the part while there are witnesses (company). When you are married to a sociopath, they usually don't have the first clue, or care what to do as part of the family. They can play the part in front of witnesses. To get them to participate usually takes a fair amount of coaxing an coaching. this might seem like bossing. It is creepy to me the way he lurks behind the young child behind the door in the spray bottle video. SW has shown nothing but a doting mom who adores her kids. CW acts just like my ex did when we lived in CO. I swear that place is cursed. I feel that I got out just in the nick of time. I do feel he would have killed me eventually. It is difficult to get an understanding of family dynamics through video clips. But his distance and lack of spontaneous participation is a big tell about his social skills behind the scenes. He seems distant and removed and just lost - uninterested. seems like he did the bait and switch on her and she got stuck with a loser - a killer. She stood in his way - prob confronted him about the affair - and he got her and the kids out of his way. Typical narcissistic sociopath - violent only when you are in between them and their desire.

I agree he seems so stiff. Why wasn’t he outside with Cece during the squirt bottle video and why isnt there natural interaction on his part? Why is he always lurking? Why doesn’t he talk back and say “no she doesn’t want to do it Shannann”. I’m more “bossy” than my husband, but he doesn’t do what I say just because I say it. Yes It comes across like SW is bossy, but it was probably also exhausting for her to always feel like she had to coach him on how to be normal. JMO

 

[gitana1]

As a lifelong MJ enthusiast, there is no way in hell SW or CW used MJ.

Lol.

 

[Charlot123]

Hi longtime lurker, new member here!

What I see in the videos is very telling about Chris Watts. He does whatever she tells him to do and is the one constantly tending to the kids while she makes videos for people online. I think he was resentful of getting put in this position so often for the sake of her fans. I get the sense that he is very introverted and most likely did not want to be in the video about losing the chess game or pie in the face, but what can you do in a live video? You don’t protest, you just do it quietly... I am the same way (and no I’m not sympathizing with him, he clearly is sick and a horrible person), however I get closed off and very submissive around loud and extroverted people. They make me uncomfortable. Truth be told my own kids sometimes get me to snap into the zombie-quiet-dutiful mode just because I’m going through the motions and want to be done with whatever we are doing. That’s what I see in Chris ... someone who is going through the motions, being dutiful, but is seething on the inside. Even his “nice nice nice nice, give me a high five” doesn’t seem natural in the pie video. I do the same thing when I’m uncomfortable, I’ll repeat the same phrase over and over again and it comes off awkward. And in Shannann I see some passive aggressive anger/resentment at Chris. Maybe they were just in a funk and she got annoyed easily with him. My husband and I went through a funk where we went to marriage counseling and I remember he annoyed me a lot then.

Nevertheless, none of these things makes you kill. If he was so unhappy which is what I see, then he should have asked for a divorce. I also don’t believe for one second that HE was the one who wanted a 3rd kid. I think that was just the narrative she gave online & im guessing it pissed him off quietly like everything else she said to him/about him online.

Thank you, very interesting. What you are describing is probably being sensory overloaded, not an uncommon thing.

To add to it, two young kids, probably sleepless nights when the kids cry, and then, this constant social media exposure. So he started carving out a niche, with all these relationships on the side.

But - he could Google, right? A simple question, "I am starting to feel dread on coming home" would immediately guide you to a family counselor. I do not think that SW, for whom CW was part of her perfect family, would have minded - even if it were costly. Heck, he could talk to his primary care doctor. Anything. The fact that he started thinking of killing them and did it indicates how concrete he was.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I just wish one of those K-9s ran up on him during the interview and started barking directly at him.

Can you imagine

 

[DexterMorgan]

I agree he seems so stiff. Why wasn’t he outside with Cece during the squirt bottle video and why isnt there natural interaction on his part? Why is he always lurking? Why doesn’t he talk back and say “no she doesn’t want to do it Shannann”. I’m more “bossy” than my husband, but he doesn’t do what I say just because I say it. Yes It comes across like SW is bossy, but it was probably also exhausting for her to always feel like she had to coach him on how to be normal. JMO

He didn't want his mistresses to see him on video doing family time. So he was aggravated about being on display.

And she may have wanted to remind his mistresses that he has a family. And enjoyed putting him on display.

Idk.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

He didn't want his mistresses to see him on video doing family time. So he was aggravated about being on display.

And she may have wanted to remind his mistresses that he has a family. And enjoyed putting him on display.

Idk.

You make some valid points - could be.

 

[Swirlz]

In Feb. of 2016, on Staten Island, a woman named Rebecca Cutler and her little girls were stabbed to death by Ms. Cutler's ex. He claimed he killed her to defend the little girls from her. He said he walked in while she was in the process of stabbing them and that he got the knife away from her and stabbed her with it to try to save them. He had a hung jury.

 

[gitana1]

Is it just me or does anyone else think it is odd that those who wear the "patches" are displaying them on their bodies as though they are a badge and they like having attention drawn to them with these patch displays. Why else would they be so colorful and placed on their body where it is unavoidable to not see them.

It's part of the sales. "Oh. What's that? Quitting smoking?"

"Ah. Good question! Thanks for asking!..."

 

[moonlessnight]

I was not the original poster who suggested SW was the dominate personality. We can't have it both ways whereby we try to understand what triggered this event without looking at the whole dynamic between CW and SW.
Time for me to take a break.

ok, DV victims will often appear dominant due to the level of stress they carry and the weight of holding everything together, trying to fix everything and make it ok. this is still in the oblivious/denial phase. once the rug is pulled out, it changes. but these guys devise ways to make their victims seem abrasive/reactive which is common is C-PTSD, and use that to manipulate others against the victim and develop the public criticism of the victim.

 

[gitana1]

Sparks conversation. Everyone is viewed as a potential customer.

"What's that patch you're wearing?" "Ooh! Have you heard about Thrive? Let me tell you about it!"

JINX! (Or maybe I should just read ahead before posting!)

 

[moonlessnight]

I see a child who feels that she has to do as she is told. No spontaneity. Just reaction.

she looked totally normal to me - having a great time. SW seems very responsive to her kids and backs off when she needs to. In the whipped cream vid, CW is the one who does not respond to the older child when she becomes upset. He ignores her and SW comforts the child. This is classic and indicates a rigid male role built on power and control.

 

[human]

But kids do that. They love all the screaming and drama during games.

Actually I learned in many classes that forcing children to do things is not respectful. Having to kiss someone or give a hug. Being tickled and them asking you to stop.

It is one thing when the children are participating, Cece and Bella were not participating. It is obvious.

Children have the right to say “no”. Then they will say “no” to their peers are friends that pressure them. Otherwise they learn to be obedient even if they find something that does not feel right.

As the mother of three, grandmother of six and a retired teacher, I cannot emphasize enough how the way the chikdren were treated in the posted videos bothers me.