Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[Shekkiec]

I have Kindle Unlimited and it’s free, so I’ll check it out. I am very skeptical of it being a worthy read but I’ll check it out tonight and report back.

I use Alexa . There is a “wake” mode . When you say Alexa it activates it. I don’t think it would be in constant “surveillance” mode.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

I did read in the affidavit that they had to retrieve the girls by draining the tanks and taking them out from the bottom.

I just went back to read the affidavit and I did not see this in it.

 

[Mrspratcher]

But can it just be left as reasonable doubt, even if they don't actually prove it?

Like Baez asserted that Casey's Dad was responsible for her child's death...no proof offered really, but the jury bought it after hearing it in Opening Statements...

I worry that if the defense just throws it out there during OS, it will linger and taint the rest of the proceedings..

@katydid23

What is mentioned in opening and closing statements is not evidence and the jury will be instructed of this.

That being said, one can never guarantee that a juror will ignore that instruction. In fact, that may very well have happened in the Casey Anthony trial.

 

[MassGuy]

I use Alexa . There is a “wake” mode . When you say Alexa it activates it. I don’t think it would be in constant “surveillance” mode.

Did you mean to respond to me? I was talking about a book written about this case.

 

[cottonweaver]

I don’t believe anything about the male lover.

Yes there was quite a struggle on here, trying to explain why his revelations did not stack -up - the entire back story, the sequence, the inconsistencies in his revelations & the way he revealed his story.

 

[Kensie]

I have alexa also. Every so often she talks without a question being asked to her. I think she is listening and more than likely bored too death at my house.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don’t believe anything about the male lover.

Do you know if he had a long term serious relationship before his marriage, and if so, how would you describe it?

 

[MassGuy]

What does evidence his prints were on the tanks prove? CW worked there. Why would the DA need to prove that to a jury?

We don’t know that he worked specifically on those tanks, or that his prints would have reason to be there (other than body disposal). Unless you know something we don’t, we haven’t heard specific evidence of his having worked on those tanks, and having a reason to open them.

 

[human]

I have not followed any family annihilator cases.

Ann Rule would have delved into every detail, But she is gone. I don’t know if there are any authors that match her ability.

Anyway, with these other monsters, were there no signs at all? No hindsight?

I only know a few people that I have diagnosed (with no credentials at all ) as psychopaths.Some people think these people are fabulous. But others of us see them for what they are.

Not one person, that we know of, saw behind the mask?

To me, SW made me cringe. Telling everyone in her FB world that he was stupid or inept bothered me. I cannot believe anyone thinks being called stupid in front of others is ok.

I originally thought he planned it out. Now I wonder if she didn’t come home and complain about something and he lost it. But why the kids?

And no,I am not blaming her. Just a possible scene. A way relationships go really wrong.

The only one that makes sense is that he wanted a free and clear life. Why that night of all nights?

 

[nwmouse]

I have alexa also. Every so often she talks without a question being asked to her. I think she is listening and more than likely bored too death at my house.

Haha, Alexa has replied when my cats meow! It was the funniest thing!!

 

[Whiteorchids]

The poor people who had that job.

They should have brought CW in to help remove the girls in that filthy sludge and look at their sweet little faces covered in crude oil.

 

[Gardenista]

I just went back to read the affidavit and I did not see this in it.

It came from here:

Investigators’ worst fears were realized when they located the bodies of Shanann’s two little girls nearby, submerged in oil tanks. It took hours to drain the tanks of their thick, dark oil in order to recover Bella, 4 and Celeste, 3.

Friends Called Cops After Chris Watts’ Wife and Daughters Disappeared

 

[nwmouse]

I have not followed any family annihilator cases.

Ann Rule would have delved into every detail, But she is gone. I don’t know if there are any authors that match her ability.

Anyway, with these other monsters, were there no signs at all? No hindsight?

I only know a few people that I have diagnosed (with no credentials at all ) as psychopaths.Some people think these people are fabulous. But others of us see them for what they are.

Not one person, that we know of, saw behind the mask?

To me, SW made me cringe. Telling everyone in her FB world that he was stupid or inept bothered me. I cannot believe anyone thinks being called stupid in front of others is ok.

I originally thought he planned it out. Now I wonder if she didn’t come home and complain about something and he lost it. But why the kids?

And no,I am not blaming her. Just a possible scene. A way relationships go really wrong.

The only one that makes sense is that he wanted a free and clear life. Why that night of all nights?

I think these are excellent questions and I have asked myself the same. Miss Ann Rule, she was so awesome

 

[Ljc4]

Yes, there was a picture or video of bella taking care of her doll and people were asking about them having a third baby and SW replied with GIF's saying no way. I will see if I can find it again and post the exact date

I haven't found the picture/video of bella with the doll yet (I'll keep looking) but there were posts on December 2nd and November 30th where she was responding to comments about a 3rd baby.

 

[MyBelle]

I understood that to mean they were testing for prints from the girls’ necks. For example, is it’s SW’s prints & not CW’s, or the marks don’t match the size of a man’s hands, that could bolster his version of what happened.

That's why the DA is doing it, to rule CW in or out in the deaths of the children. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

She literally posted on May 8 2018 she wants to try . This was within a four day window of getting pregnant . The comments in her post were “ are you trying to tell us something “ “ go for it” when she announced her pregnancy on June 11.. responses were of shock it is as if she was pregnant all ready “ were you lying before ?” So I asked the dr on here if conception could be that quick bc she stated “I was told I could not have kids”. But regardless she got pregnant and CW said “ you always get what you want on video of pregnancy

I'm getting confused. Did she or didn't she?

 

[MsBetsy]

We don’t know that he worked specifically on those tanks, or that his prints would have reason to be there (other than body disposal). Unless you know something we don’t, we haven’t heard specific evidence of his having worked on those tanks, and having a reason to open them.

How high are the tanks? Are there ladders?

 

[cottonweaver]

I have not followed any family annihilator cases.

Ann Rule would have delved into every detail, But she is gone. I don’t know if there are any authors that match her ability.

Anyway, with these other monsters, were there no signs at all? No hindsight?

I only know a few people that I have diagnosed (with no credentials at all ) as psychopaths.Some people think these people are fabulous. But others of us see them for what they are.

Not one person, that we know of, saw behind the mask?

To me, SW made me cringe. Telling everyone in her FB world that he was stupid or inept bothered me. I cannot believe anyone thinks being called stupid in front of others is ok.

I originally thought he planned it out. Now I wonder if she didn’t come home and complain about something and he lost it. But why the kids?

And no,I am not blaming her. Just a possible scene. A way relationships go really wrong.

The only one that makes sense is that he wanted a free and clear life. Why that night of all nights?

This is from DWilson, British criminologist who has researched the field.
main proviso is that this is an area which is evolving, new research. See if you think CW case fits one of these sub-groups. Obviously as it's a developing academic area, not all crimes will fit the patterns. Some killers we think of as FA don't even come under the research criteria.

It is not cut & dried, so to speak, as we can all see from this extract

* "Family annihilators have received little attention as a separate category of killer.....Using newspaper archives to analyse three decades of family annihilation, from 1980 to 2012.....81 per cent of the men attempted suicide after the act,

Family breakup was the most common cause, accounting for 66 per cent of cases, although this included related domestic issues such as access to children. Financial difficulties were the second most commonly cited motive; followed by honour killing and mental illness.

In all of these cases masculinity and perceptions of power, sets the background for the crimes. The family role of the father is central to their ideas of masculinity and the murders represent a last ditch attempt to perform a masculine role.

Categorising the Killers: Four Types of Family Annihilator

• Self-righteous: The killer seeks to locate blame for his crimes upon the mother who he holds responsible for the breakdown of the family. This may involve the killer phoning his partner before the murder to explain what he is about to do. For these men, their breadwinner status is central to their idea of the ideal family.
• Disappointed: This killer believes his family has let him down or has acted in ways to undermine or destroy his vision of ideal family life. An example may be disappointment that children are not following the traditional religious or cultural customs of the father. ( eg honour killings)

• Anomic: In these cases the family has become firmly linked in the mind of the killer to the economy. The father sees family as the result of his economic success, allowing him to display his achievements. However, if the father becomes an economic failure, he sees the family as no longer serving this function.
• Paranoid: Those who perceive an external threat to the family. This is often social services or the legal system, which the father fears will side against him and take away the children. Here the murder is motivated by a twisted desire to protect the family.
  
  
• Characteristics of family killers revealed by first classification study | Birmingham City University

 

[MsBetsy]

I have alexa also. Every so often she talks without a question being asked to her. I think she is listening and more than likely bored too death at my house.

Who is Alexa? Is that the name of the doll?

 

[MassGuy]

I have not followed any family annihilator cases.

Ann Rule would have delved into every detail, But she is gone. I don’t know if there are any authors that match her ability.

Anyway, with these other monsters, were there no signs at all? No hindsight?

I only know a few people that I have diagnosed (with no credentials at all ) as psychopaths.Some people think these people are fabulous. But others of us see them for what they are.

Not one person, that we know of, saw behind the mask?

To me, SW made me cringe. Telling everyone in her FB world that he was stupid or inept bothered me. I cannot believe anyone thinks being called stupid in front of others is ok.

I originally thought he planned it out. Now I wonder if she didn’t come home and complain about something and he lost it. But why the kids?

And no,I am not blaming her. Just a possible scene. A way relationships go really wrong.

The only one that makes sense is that he wanted a free and clear life. Why that night of all nights?

Cathryn Casey is the closest thing to Ann Rule, but she focuses mainly on Texas.

To answer your question about family annihilators, there are not always outwardly visible signs. Usually there is some marital strife beforehand, but not in every case. That is the scary thing, as you can rarely, if ever, see it coming.

There are usually common factors in play, financial problems, being among the biggest. You also have affairs, and an unhappy marriage. On its face, this case ticks more than one of those boxes.