Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[MsBetsy]

IMOO The way she speaks to him around the 6 minute mark is condescending and he looks like a deer in the headlights. I don't see her as beating him up, abusing the kids or threatening his life. This *is* a situation in which a partner could LEAVE the marriage (Chris) without fearing for his life. Maybe he acted in a fit of rage but we may never know, even AFTER the trial.

I didn't notice that. I noticed her looking to him for support 3 times and then he finally comes and stands behind her... jmo

 

[gitana1]

I agree his behavior in the interviews is likely going to come back to bite him. Even if one were to believe his version of events it’s hard to understand how his despair over the deaths of his kids didn’t utterly visibly crush him those 36 hours afterwards. Perhaps he was still in panic coverup mode and was still disassociating as best he could, perhaps he is nothing but a cold arrogant man only trying to cover his arse. It’s so hard to imagine what might have been going on inside his mind.

As for the trying to save the girls/getting them to breathe- I ask this genuinely only bc I’m trying like the rest of us to sort out the facts- has that been confirmed? Has he denied trying to give them CPR, etc? I know he claimed he saw through the monitor SW “actively strangling” Celeste, and it certainly stands to reason that if a parent saw this they would go over and try to save the child instead of strangling the spouse, but has he denied trying to save them? I realize this may sound preposterous to ask, but again- I’m trying to figure out what’s been confirmed as to his story. At the end of the day, his defense team is going to attempt to paint a picture of what happened in the house that night and the picture they will try to paint is that CW cared about the kids. I do think it’s reasonable they will claim he did try to resuscitate them, unless of course we already know he didn’t. There sure is a lot they haven’t disclosed about what he says happened.

ETA: we do know he didn’t call 911- that’s certainly a fact. Calling 911 would mean the entire tragedy would be out in the open. So we can conclude that either way (CW or SW killing the children) he did not want anyone to know what happened.

It's a good question. You're right. It hasn't truly been confirmed. And I have often thought that by repeating he didn't try to revive them, we might be giving ideas to the defense. But there's no evidence he tried. What would his wife have been doing as she is trying to revive the kids? Standing there? Trying to stop him? Trying to kill him or herself?

And here's the thing, the theory that he might have tried to revive the kids before killing her does two things that hurt him:

1. That would erase the "defense of others" defense.

Because if he strangled her to stop her from strangling the kids, that could theoretically fit. But if he did so after making sure the kids were dead, he could not use that defense.
CO 18-1-704. Use of physical force in defense of a person

2. It could erode the heat of passion mitigator. If he spent time trying to revive the kids before he suddenly acted and killed SW, it could be argued that that means he had "time to reflect" between the time he saw her engaged in the act, as the affidavit states, and the time he strangled her in rage. And the affidavit doesn't state: "He says he saw her strangling the kids. He ran and tried to get her off the kids. He checked their pulses. He spent 20 minutes doing CPR. When he realized it was hopeless, he burst into a rage and strangled his wife." Instead it says he saw her strangling one child and "he went into a rage and ultimately strangled Shanann to death."

And if he claims he used CPR while in that rage, (which doesn't make much sense to me), before "ultimately" strangling her to death, he erodes the heat of passion mitigator:

"[M]urder in the second degree is a class 3 felony where the act causing the death was performed upon a sudden heat of passion, caused by a serious and highly provoking act of the intended victim, affecting the defendant sufficiently to excite an irresistible passion in a reasonable person; but, if between the provocation and the killing there is an interval sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard, the killing is a class 2 felony."
2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 3 - :: Offenses Against the Person :: Part 1 - :: Homicide and Related Offenses :: § 18-3-103. Murder in the second degree

It would seem that the time it takes to check vitals, use CPR and determine it is not working, would allow "an interval sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard."

But this is all academic. Because as most assume, they have much more than what's in the affidavit, which is not more than a summary. I think it is reasonable to assume they have hours of taped interrogation and a statement by CW that is much fuller than the summary presented in the affidavit. That will be compelling and horrifying to watch I think. But it will tell us exactly what he said about that morning and if he attempted to revive his kids, he would have said that during his "confession."

Either way, the DA heard everything he stated in those tapes and charged him anyways, with five counts of first degree murder.

 

[Gardener1850]

I get that, but he had all night to wash that bedding and instead put it in the bin! perhaps he couldnt work the washer?

How do we know he didn't wash them before throwing them away? He might have. I thought the reason he threw the top sheet and pillow cases in the trash was because he had left the matching fitted one in the field where Shanann's body was buried. Wasn't it found blowing around not far from the oil wells where he dumped his little girls?

 

[MassGuy]

but wouldnt she scratch his arms?

It’s possible, but difficult if done right.

 

[MsBetsy]

but wouldnt she scratch his arms?

It takes 10 seconds to lose consciousness if done a certain way, maybe she tried but didn't get the chance. Jmo

 

[JDough]

but wouldnt she scratch his arms?

That was my thought....... I was also trying to think of a reason the pillowcases were found in the garbage.

 

[moonlessnight]

True. Some just enjoy playing with their victims long enough to destroy their lives (emotionally/mentally/financially *not* by killing) before moving on to the next victim. Sociopaths are usually charming and eloquent. CW is neither, he comes across as shy and stuttering.

sociopaths are less charming and eloquent and are more often known to be offenders in misdemeaner crimes. It's the psychopaths and narcissists who are charming and cunning. But it's your average power and control-driven male who perpetrates day to day domestic abuse. BPD/NPD and socio/psychopathy and power and control abusers blend into each other so much and exist on a spectrum - no one person manifests the same as another person of the same type. genetics, life experience, and environment all play into the dynamics of a malignant personality. that's what makes it so diabolical - you can never really know who you are dealing with until it's too late. unless you bolt at the first sign...and then you never know anyway.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I didn’t know about leasing the car. I have never heard of that before. A cash planning nightmare. It just goes along with my thoughts that it takes a substantial amount of working capital to thrive on Thrive.

I misspoke when I said it was a requirement to lease the luxe car...my apologies. But you are offered it early on - my point, which was made poorly by me, was it comes with the requirement that if you do take them up on paying for a luxe car for you, you have to lease it in your name and should you drop your sales volume, it is your responsibility because they give you the payments as long as you are performing at a specific level. Sorry to not be more clear the first time.

 

[MsBetsy]

and yet not every sociopath kills.

Most don't kill or even harm anyone. Imo

 

[violet101]

I did a little looking into LeVel and Thrive...I found that the MLM companies are somewhat diabolically genius. Because as a promoter your entire livelihood depends upon getting people into the fold, you really cannot (1) complain about the company, (2) complain about the products. Ever. And the requirement to lease a luxe car in your name, wherein they will make payments on it when you are keeping up your sales, is yet another bind that ties...while showing off a luxe lifestyle. I think the entire endeavor can be very stressful. At first, you make huge bonuses, and then it seems to become a trickle until you make very, very big sales. My guess for the 80k level she was at would be about 4% of sales. If you hit 200K for a month, it is 8%. The entire house of cards falls apart if you show any apprehension about the company, products, or job. Talk about stress.

Interesting, 8% of $200k a month is pretty good. I did read that she was close to getting to that level so I can see the potential of good money for her. She definitely was a good salesperson! But one bad month seems like it could ruin you.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

With chronic health issues with BW, CCW and SW, a pending pregnancy with health risks along with financial implications with that pregnancy, financial issues (HOA and who knows if they had other lingering financial issues arising from the bankruptcy), marital and relationship issues and dysfunction, an AP and/or AP's, CW's sexual identity issues and secret life if we are to believe reports, the Thrive SM presence throughout every aspect of their lives ~ it appears to me like a slow burning forest fire getting out of control that ignited that morning. How it played out, hopefully the evidence will prove without a doubt what actually happened.

Great post!

 

[nwmouse]

I didn't notice that. I noticed her looking to him for support 3 times and then he finally comes and stands behind her... jmo

Interesting. I saw her calling him over as her sales pitch for Thrive because he did a 5 mile run and lost 50 pounds. MOO.

 

[MsBetsy]

oh WOW - I didn't know he had told a friend SW was on a playdate after she'd been murdered. how does he think he can get away with saying she killed the kids if he never reported it? and why is she gonna go to a playdate if she had killed her kids? He has no logic whatsoever. which is actually not surprising.

Good point. He will probably say he was protecting her. Jmo

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Interesting, 8% of $200k a month is pretty good. I did read that she was close to getting to that level so I can see the potential of good money for her. She definitely was a good salesperson! But one bad month seems like it could ruin you.

MLM’s are typically short lived. JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

In the affidavit the monster initially says they spoke about a separation at 5am and had an "emotionalco conversation". Seems to me a tight timeline to then leave for work. After killing his babies and wife and arriving to work on time.

Later on in the affidavit the monster changes his time of this supposed conversation to 4am.

So basically we're supposed to believe this woman came home around 2am, made it to bed, and he woke her up at 4? 5? To discuss a so called separation, cried his eyes out, and went to work?!

Did he look like he'd been crying at work? Was he a mess? Would coworkers confirm? I wouldn't be able to cry and have that emotional discussion a couple hours before work and show up ready for business as usual.

Moo moo moo

BBM
I tend to think that he killed her earlier than 4 or 5 am. Listen to what he says just after the 6 minute mark in this video:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

"I saw her when she got in, but it was really quick."

 

[MJPeony]

..... Because as most assume, they have much more than what's in the affidavit, which is not more than a summary. I think it is reasonable to assume they have hours of taped interrogation and a statement by CW that is much fuller than the summary presented in the affidavit. That will be compelling and horrifying to watch I think. But it will tell us exactly what he said about that morning and if he attempted to revive his kids, he would have said that during his "confession."

Either way, the DA heard everything he stated in those tapes and charged him anyways, with five counts of first degree murder.

SBM.

Thanks. I'd value an attorney (convenient for me, you are one!) explanation on this since I'm still confused- so if the DA charges someone like CW, does it mean by definition that they have enough evidence? Or is it just that they are going to hope to provide enough evidence eventually?

I should probably know this by now- TIA.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Interesting, 8% of $200k a month is pretty good. I did read that she was close to getting to that level so I can see the potential of good money for her. She definitely was a good salesperson! But one bad month seems like it could ruin you.

There is definitely a great deal I did not learn about it...how the tiers work, etc, because it bores me. But I think very, very few make it up that high and sustain it. Once you have tapped out everyone you know...plus each month those people who buy or are promoting for you have to keep buying in for the level to keep up. I think it is sad because it is a lot of work and yet you are essentially forced, if you want to succeed, to make it look easy. It has a cult like aftertaste to me when your livelihood depends on insisting everything is perfect, to everyone. Who can you complain to? Who can you be real with? How many sentences can I end with a preposition?

 

[Colorado303]

@Colorado303 do you know why SW had her neck surgery?

Just that it was to correct an injury or disorder. Don’t remember the name of it, but IIRC there was at least one post in an earlier thread that named it. She had it done before I knew her.

 

[Johnny1181]

but wouldnt she scratch his arms?

Perhaps. But the monster appeared very physically fit.... bragged about his workout, even showed himself doing push-ups with his babies on his back. The ones he stuffed into an oil tank. After carrying them up a ladder.

It would not be difficult for a man of his fitness to pin arms behind a back or neck(Shanann's for instance) and strangle with the other arm.

This case makes me sick.

Moo. Moo.moo

 

[sun16]

Interesting, 8% of $200k a month is pretty good. I did read that she was close to getting to that level so I can see the potential of good money for her. She definitely was a good salesperson! But one bad month seems like it could ruin you.

I’d be surprised if Thrive offered medical, eye and dental insurance, long-term disability, health/flex savings account, 401(k), profit sharing, company-paid life insurance equal to at least 1 year’s salary ... all the benefits a full-time job at a good company offers. So maybe the benefits came from his job. Who knows. But even if she was making some money at Thrive, you’d still need money for benefits and to save for the children’s education (especially college) and your own retirement, and all the spending you are doing on random stuff. And taxes on that Thrive income. Their financial health had been in poor shape.