Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[MassGuy]

I believe I'm a normal thinking person. I also believe in innocent until PROVEN guilty. I sure hope people who are ready to vote one way or another without a trial aren't on the jury.

“Innocent until proven guilty,” is a legal term. A jury must keep an open mind, be objective, and let the facts lead them to a conclusion.

We, in “the court of public opinion,” are free to make our own determination based on the evidence as we know it.

That evidence, IMO, leads to the conclusion that he killed them all.

 

[kirkassoc]

Here is a really good article in Newsweek magazine about Family annihilators. According to this article the kids are usually killed first.

Check it out here:
Why Ordinary People Murder Their Families

Here are some tidbits of the article.

Known as "family annihilators", these people, most always men, have a profound need for control that drives them to destroy their family when they can no longer provide for them financially or when the family has been divided by divorce. (With men who commit murder-suicides there tends to be a catalyst such as a financial or personal defeat that they view as catastrophic, while women who kill loved ones are more likely to have a history of mental-health conditions like postpartum psychosis, as in the case of Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned her five young children in 2001.)

Can you explain how seemingly average people wind up committing such an extreme crime?
There are certain factors that we find in almost every annihilation, especially the ones where the motive is revenge: There's a catalyst that is seen as catastrophic in the mind of the killer. The percipient is usually a nasty divorce or child-custody battle. There's a loss of a relationship. There's an externalization of blame. The killer believes that the spouse is responsible for the destruction of the family unit. The children are killed because the husband blames the wife and kills everything associated with her … first the children go and then the wife—everything associated with the person is considered evil.

I can think of three cases right off the bat that don't fit within the guidelines of any of these examples (C Coleman, J List, C Longo). As far as I can see, these men were just dead from the rear end, both ways. They wanted nothing but to wipe out their past and everyone included in it and start all over with a slate they had wiped clean. They didn't seem to particularly hate their wives, they were just totally selfish, souless men who didn't love anyone but themselves. JMO. MOO

 

[Best of What's Around]

I hear you, but what if there turns out to be no way to tell who actually strangled the girls? If I were on the jury, knowing what we know now, I would not give him reasonable doubt, given what he did to erase evidence.

And if there is no way to tell, it is likely because they were immersed in crude oil for days. At his hands. Convenient?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

We have a few facts that point towards his potential guilt, imo.

For one, his statements about the event do not seem credible. Hard to believe that he could see on the monitor, that his child was blue. That is very questionable.

And if he did see a blue child, even harder to believe that he didn't call 911 and/or scream loudly for help. He said nothing about trying to revive either child.

Sadly, I have known several parents who have found an unresponsive child or spouse. Trying to immediately REVIVE their loved one is the immediate priority. Calling 911, screaming for help from neighbors, doing CPR, would be his response, if he really saw a child sprawled on her bed, blue in the face. He didn't do anything of the sort.

His other child was in the process of being strangled. She had a great chance to be saved if he had tried to do so. But he said nothing about trying to save her. Instead, he spent precious long minutes strangling his wife, and thus killing his only surviving child in the process.

These facts point to his potential guilt, not his potential innocence, in my opinion.

Nothing in his story makes much sense. Why would they be having a deep emotional discussion 2 hours after she arrived home, from a long delayed flight. She was ill, pregnant and exhausted. She would have been asleep if she had her choice.

And he said he asked for a separation and she snapped. But our VI said he had asked for a separation repeatedly, with little response from her. Why would a pregnant woman, thrilled about the little boy she had already named, brutally slaughter her babies, over a proposed separation, that she knew about for weeks or months?

I agree - it doesn't look good for him. But, like I've said, we don't have enough FACTS to convict him of murdering his 2 daughters. That's a fact and it's your choice if you want to ignore it.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Covering up a crime does show evidence of guilt. And an implausible confession, which was given only when he knew that they had found the location of the bodies so as to mitigate his charges. At every turn, every action and word is that of a guilty man. This is what juries look at when physical evidence is lacking. And the confession lacks plausibility. A loving father, or really any stranger, would try to recisitate two dead children (having died within minutes of “finding” them) with the help of 911. Not start packing them up to go hide them and messaging your deceased wife like she is alive.

So true! How is this not obvious to everyone? (Thankfully, I believe it is, to most people. I'd like to think that it will be to the jury too...but then that dark spectre which is the CA case, arises in my mind. Uggh. )

 

[NuttMegg]

When I watched the CW interviews I found myself looking at his hands knowing now they were used to kill his wife, unborn son and probably his two littles girls. I am repulsed and creeped out.

That's how I feel when I look at that face, what the expression had been when he was admittedly in the process of murdering SW/Nico, at least. And then I get angry again when I see that vanity shave, I noticed today that he would have shaved that part on his neck adjacent to his beard, too, in addition to around the lower lip adornment and the clipping of the upper lip hairs. He could have been admiring himself in the mirror for half an hour, knowing the whole family was dead and soaking in toxic crude or open to predation by foxes and skunks.

 

[ReckoningDay]

We have a few facts that point towards his potential guilt, imo.

For one, his statements about the event do not seem credible. Hard to believe that he could see on the monitor, that his child was blue. That is very questionable.

And if he did see a blue child, even harder to believe that he didn't call 911 and/or scream loudly for help. He said nothing about trying to revive either child.

Sadly, I have known several parents who have found an unresponsive child or spouse. Trying to immediately REVIVE their loved one is the immediate priority. Calling 911, screaming for help from neighbors, doing CPR, would be his response, if he really saw a child sprawled on her bed, blue in the face. He didn't do anything of the sort.

His other child was in the process of being strangled. She had a great chance to be saved if he had tried to do so. But he said nothing about trying to save her. Instead, he spent precious long minutes strangling his wife, and thus killing his only surviving child in the process.

These facts point to his potential guilt, not his potential innocence, in my opinion.

Nothing in his story makes much sense. Why would they be having a deep emotional discussion 2 hours after she arrived home, from a long delayed flight. She was ill, pregnant and exhausted. She would have been asleep if she had her choice.

And he said he asked for a separation and she snapped. But our VI said he had asked for a separation repeatedly, with little response from her. Why would a pregnant woman, thrilled about the little boy she had already named, brutally slaughter her babies, over a proposed separation, that she knew about for weeks or months?

All very logical points!

 

[esmerelda]

Has there ever been a pregnant woman who's killed her children in vengeance against her partner? Not that I'm saying it's impossible, I just think she wouldn't be able to, hormones, lack of focus, tiredness, more tearful than feisty?
I don't where I'm going with this, I'll research later for some statistics.[/QUOTE]
THIS!!! Please tell me how logical this is, that SW was able to strangle her 2 children while pregnant w another. IDKW this thought never occurred to me, but IMO it's not even in the realm of possibility.

 

[PommyMommy]

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that the cab of his truck is not very big. The bodies would have been piled high. This is another reason I’m thinking the girls were killed and put in the oil tank on the 12th and SW on the 13th.

It's certainly possible. I don't necessarily think they would be piled high though, if SW or the two girls were on the floor. I've never owned that particular kind of truck, so I may not have a good grasp on how much room there is in the back seat.

I also think since he admits to loading them all in the truck and disposing of them that morning, it is more likely. I have to believe that LE would review the neighbor's video (if available) for the prior day. That could help to prove one theory or the other - if he is seen/not seen loading trash bags or...something.

 

[MsBetsy]

Well, if garbage pick up is on Tuesday and not on Monday, then that would be a big risk on his part for no one to have reported her missing by Tuesday. Plus, sometimes garbage can be found and recovered. Most people would take incriminating evidence far away or burn it, IMO.

Yes, it would seem as if he had expected there to be more time. He did not seem to plan very well. Jmo

 

[Jennifer17]

I agree - it doesn't look good for him. But, like I've said, we don't have enough FACTS to convict him of murdering his 2 daughters. That's a fact and it's your choice if you want to ignore it.

We have the fact that he lied and lied and lied about everything until he was cornered. Even about having an affair.
I just cannot understand how anyone can think that he could be telling the truth about how the children died.

 

[MKZoo]

I agree we don't have forensic proof that CW killed the girls, but I think we will get that eventually - imo. However, we know he killed SW and Nico because he told us he did. What we can obviously conclude from that is that he is capable of taking a human life.

There is no indication from friends or family (or any FB video or post) that SW was capable of taking a life. The only person who has claimed that is the man who killed her. I hope I'll be forgiven for not allowing that to be persuasive

 

[PommyMommy]

Is Pommy here? Didn't the floor plan show the stairs by the girls' rooms? IE if he came back up the stairs he would pass their rooms and presumably hear a commotion, before he got back to SW/CW room to see the monitor? (Sorry if that layout is not how I remember it).

Credit to @The Saint

 

[Tippy Lynn]

So who killed them? It seems that you are ready to accept that SW killed them, without being proven guilty in a court of law.

With what little facts we know I'm NOT willing to accept guilt for neither SW nor CW. I don't know who's responsible. I NEED FACTS!!!

 

[MsBetsy]

It's certainly possible. I don't necessarily think they would be piled high though, if SW or the two girls were on the floor. I've never owned that particular kind of truck, so I may not have a good grasp on how much room there is in the back seat. I also think since he admits to loading them all in the truck and disposing of them that morning, it is more likely. I have to believe that LE would review the neighbor's video (if available) for the prior day. That could help to prove your theory if he is seen loading trash bags or...something.[/QUOTE
Also, he would have to admit to loading all three at one time if we are to believe his story. Jmo

 

[Whiteorchids]

I agree - it's the whole big picture and frankly we don't know the whole big picture yet. That's a fact that's being heavily overlooked. IMO

I think this is just everyone’s opinion of what we know up to this point. We will learn more as time goes on during the trial or more evidence is released but up to this point what I’ve read and heard I’m going with CW annilated the whole family. I’m open to changing my mind if there’s more evidence. I’m going with the investigators expertise right now.

 

[katydid23]

I get what you are saying. However, we don't have enough facts to determine if he's innocent of killing the girls or not. I don't know how anyone can say we do. A jury couldn't convict him with what little we know regarding the 2 girls. JMO

The investigators know a lot more than we do. They have seen the bruises and hand prints on those little necks. I think they know how big the hands were that strangled those babies.

 

[MyBelle]

RBBM
Just to be clear, some of us who are not fully convinced that CW is responsible are not ignoring facts. We don't have the facts to determine who is responsible for the deaths of the girls.

ITA. If CW promised to tell the truth after he spoke to his dad, he would have changed his story about seeing SW strangling CeCe if it was a lie. His PD is treating it as the truth so I'm doing that as well. JMO

 

[BeanieBod]

I have just over one hundred friends on facebook, I love seeing whats going on with them but sadly have unfollowed atleast 1/3 of them pushing MLM.

And the ones that share TOO MUCH very personal information.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I agree we don't have forensic proof that CW killed the girls, but I think we will get that eventually - imo. However, we know he killed SW and Nico because he told us he did. What we can obviously conclude from that is that he is capable of taking a human life.

There is no indication from friends or family (or any FB video or post) that SW was capable of taking a life. The only person who has claimed that is the man who killed her. I hope I'll be forgiven for not allowing that to be persuasive

Which could also be said for CW. They also had no indication from friends and family that CW was capable of taking a life.