Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[MKZoo]

Just my opinion, but I don’t think it was the beginning of that discussion. I suspect it was an ongoing and contentious one. (I believe Trinket’s version that CW wanted to leave, and Shanann wanted to make it work for the childrens’ sake, JMO.)

Of course, if one of them did bring it up then, it was the worst time to, with both exhausted and emotional.

Yes. I didn’t necessarily mean “begin” as in “discuss for the first time”. I just meant that I find it illogical to actually have such an important conversation when one you is ostensibly sleeping the other is ostensibly about to walk out the door. It gives me some pause as to whether it happened at all that night/morning.

 

[borndem]

Concerning the discussion in the previous thread about CW possibly having a Chem Engineering degree:

Unless I'm missing something, the University of Miami does not have a Chem Eng program. Miami University (as in Miami, Ohio) does, however. Does anyone know if CW spent 4-odd years in Ohio at some point? Cause no one gets a bachelors in engineering online, it's just not possible to get that kind of degree without years of hands-on coursework. (Source: am married to one.)

IMO, he doesn't seem smart enuff to get a Chem E degree. My alma mater has Chem E, and it is known for its difficulty. Our son's best friend is a Chem E, BS/MS/PhD -- extremely intelligent and very dedicated to the research he's doing. The school graduates a good number of engineers, but Chem E is one of the smaller graduating classes, so I am skeptical about CW having one, but the company he worked for would probably have some C.E.'s.
And you're so right -- online courses would not work -- the many lab courses and others must be done at the source, period.
Not buying it, but I've been wrong a couple of times -- maybe more.

 

[MassGuy]

When I watched Susan Smith's performance I told my hubby, This lady is going to the clink. DITTO for CW, except I didn't call him a lady, and due to TOS I cannot repeat what I did call him.

Haaaaaa. For me, that interview sets the bar when it comes to obvious signs of deception. What a train wreck she was.

 

[Allabouttrial]

WOW!

O/T I don't have a dog, but if I did it would be the exact one you have on your profile!

 

[MsBetsy]

That is an interesting perspective. Of all the lies CW told, I find the one about the affair to be the least damning. Conclusions based on the evidence of hiding the bodies, sending messages to a dead spouse to pretend you do not know what happened to her, insisting your family is missing and you worry about their safety when you know they are dead, these are the lies I find to be strong circumstantial evidence, as well as other things I mentioned previously. Affairs can be a concern because it can point to a motive, but I find the lie about the affair to be least damning of all. And I even think that not calling 911 to try to save a child you just saw being strangled is in some way complicit on its face even if true. Parents on the jury will not understand that. I don't and I'm not a parent. IMO.

Actually I can see the defense using the affair to imply SW was the one with the motive. That and the "emotional conversation" about separation . Jmo

 

[borndem]

IIRC NUA said when she dropped SW off she turned & waved & went inside.

Hmmmm, odd, isn't it!?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The Defense doesn't have to prove anything but if there are text messages or evidence CW wanted a separation and SW knew it prior to the murder, it likely will be introduced, imo.

It is the prosecution's job to prove CW murdered his children. There will be jurors capable of forming conclusions based on forensic evidence and won't care that he lied because he was having an affair. Convicting a man simply because he had an affair while his wife was pregnant isn't going to happen in this case. I'm confident the judge will not allow it to turn into a circus. JMO

I'm a bit lost, I replied to your post that CW repeating his claim that he and SW had an emotional/civil conversation isn't proof it occurred.

Of course, if there are text messages etc. that SW knew beforehand about the separation, she may have been seething, slept for 2 hrs and then awoke CW for a confrontation. This is actually a good theory.

I don't get the reference to the affair, I'm not taking a moral high ground. I stated he lied throughout his marriage to cover an affair, which proves he's capable of lying even before the cover up, that we do know.
Isn't this a discussion about what we know and then adding our own opinions? I don't think I've stated anything as fact even when they are, I've been here long enough and even after a being away, it's still etched in my mind.

 

[MKZoo]

Haaaaaa. For me, that interview sets the bar when it comes to obvious signs of deception. What a train wreck she was.

I remember my mom saying- she is way too calm for someone who was merely carjacked, let alone someone who had her babies taken during a carjacking.

And I think the preternatural calm is what struck me about CWs interview. I have zero diagnosis to give based on his behavior but he just seemed too calm for a guy who was missing a pregnant wife and babies. IMO.

 

[Marli61]

Hmmmm, odd, isn't it!?

Well... really not all that odd. I am a worrier... so if I let someone off somewhere I make sure they get inside... just in case for whatever reason. Same for dropping someone off at their vehicle. I always make sure it starts & they pull away.

 

[MsBetsy]

I believe the psyshological tests are designed and structured to be as fool proof as possible. But, no, not 100% fool proof. IMO

They are designed to detect deceit. But one psychologist can get different results than others, such as in the Jodi Arias trial. His psychological tests should be interesting. Jmo

 

[Best of What's Around]

Just want to put this out there since I have had some back and forth with some posters regarding evidence of guilt and CW. I watched most of the FB videos...I found both SW and CW endearing. I found CW to be someone I would like quite a bit based on what I saw. I admired is patience with the kids (and SW) and how gentle he was with them all. I believe SW that he was wonderful. And that the VIs have found him wonderful (or mostly). And for his media interviews - before I knew he was lying, I did not find him to be glib - I thought he was scared. At the time I assumed he was scared of the media attention and what happened to his family. I did think it was odd that he wasn't more emotional, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt because maybe she had left him and taken the kids. It is in retrospect, knowing the lies, the timeline, the extensive coverup, that I can find myself offended by his media interviews. And that is based solely on his own confession to his lies - not to any other evidence. He exposed his own consciousness of guilt. I do not want either of these people to be guilty...but the evidence points very strongly to just one. It is a shame, but it is the case. And as I said, I find the affair to be among the weakest of the circumstantial evidence so far...mainly because we have no idea how serious it was, etc. I do not believe anyone here takes glee in finding the case to be so strong against CW.

...still just trying to bridge the divide here while strongly defending what I think is a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case pointing one way only.

 

[MyBelle]

Haaaaaa. For me, that interview sets the bar when it comes to obvious signs of deception. What a train wreck she was.

Her lies were because she wanted her boyfriend and he didn't want kids. It took another week or so to get her to fess up the location of the boys' bodies. CW's lies were to cover the fact he was having an affair. He had to know the husband is always the first looked at by LE. He had to know about cases like Scott Peterson's. You'd have to live under a bridge not to know about SP. JMO

 

[Bill Carson]

Urban Gardener's post about crude oil baths sent me on a search to youtube. The stuff doesn't come off as easily as you might think. (I think I ought to include a foul language warning, for those of us who speak Russian. Edited to add: er....crude language. (Groan.))

 

[Marli61]

Just want to put this out there since I have had some back and forth with some posters regarding evidence of guilt and CW. I watched most of the FB videos...I found both SW and CW endearing. I found CW to be someone I would like quite a bit based on what I saw. I admired is patience with the kids (and SW) and how gentle he was with them all. I believe SW that he was wonderful. And that the VIs have found him wonderful (or mostly). And for his media interviews - before I knew he was lying, I did not find him to be glib - I thought he was scared. At the time I assumed he was scared of the media attention and what happened to his family. I did think it was odd that he wasn't more emotional, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt because maybe she had left him and taken the kids. It is in retrospect, knowing the lies, the timeline, the extensive coverup, that I can find myself offended by his media interviews. And that is based solely on his own confession to his lies - not to any other evidence. He exposed his own consciousness of guilt. I do not want either of these people to be guilty...but the evidence points very strongly to just one. It is a shame, but it is the case. And as I said, I find the affair to be among the weakest of the circumstantial evidence so far...mainly because we have no idea how serious it was, etc. I do not believe anyone here takes glee in finding the case to be so strong against CW.

...still just trying to bridge the divide here while strongly defending what I think is a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case pointing one way only.

Excellent post.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Well... really not all that odd. I am a worrier... so if I let someone off somewhere I make sure they get inside... just in case for whatever reason. Same for dropping someone off at their vehicle. I always make sure it starts & they pull away.

We always do that too.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I am sure that no one is saying he is guilty of murder just because he was having an affair and no jury would either.
It is when you add all the things together that it certainly looks like he murdered three people.
His hiding the bodies and where he hid them.
His lying about them being missing.
His reluctance to go home when he was alerted that they were not where they should be.
His rushing home when NUA told him she was calling the police.
The sheets in the garbage can.
His laughing relaxed manner in his interviews.

Great post! Heres another CW not willing to submit buccal (cheek) DNA swab nor finger and hand prints, and hand photos to prosecution. An innocent person doesn’t lie and coverup. Innocent people don’t flee from police like OJ Simpson.

 

[Shekkiec]

WOW!

They are designed to detect deceit. But one psychologist can get different results than others, such as in the Jodi Arias trial. His psychological tests should be interesting. Jmo

So should hers IMO both are very relevant

 

[MyBelle]

I remember my mom saying- she is way too calm for someone who was merely carjacked, let alone someone who had her babies taken during a carjacking.

And I think the preternatural calm is what struck me about CWs interview. I have zero diagnosis to give based on his behavior but he just seemed too calm for a guy who was missing a pregnant wife and babies. IMO.

The news video of Susan Smith that I saw was her pleas to the kidnapper and she was sobbing. Nothing calm about her at all. Very emotional. iow, she was doing all the things some claim CW should have been doing and did not do. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Great post! Heres another CW not willing to submit buccal (cheek) DNA swab nor finger and hand prints, and hand photos to prosecution. An innocent person doesn’t lie and coverup. Innocent people don’t flee from police like OJ Simpson.

Has his attorney refused? I haven't seen it. A link would be great. Thanks.

 

[MassGuy]

Her lies were because she wanted her boyfriend and he didn't want kids. It took another week or so to get her to fess up the location of the boys' bodies. CW's lies were to cover the fact he was having an affair. He had to know the husband is always the first looked at by LE. He had to know about cases like Scott Peterson's. You'd have to live under a bridge not to know about SP. JMO

False. C.W.’s lies were to conceal the truth about where his family was. He wanted to sell the idea that they were out there, somewhere, and he had nothing to do with it. The lies were about self preservation, plain and simple.

He wasn’t about to say “I killed my family, and disposed of their bodies by putting my kids in oil tanks, and digging a nice shallow grave for my wife.”

Concealing an affair was the least of his worries.