Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[idfinch]

IMO some of the most fascinating and telling info will come from the AP if she testifies.

She's a total unknown other than the fact that she worked with CW (assuming she's a she, I don't believe the guy on AB) and was having an affair with him.

We don't know if she wanted a future with him or if it was a FWB situation, if he confided in her about his marriage, what he said about SW and the girls, what promises he may have made her, how she felt when she found out about the murders, what her take is on what happened, who did it and why.

By all accounts, no one seemed to know CW very well or be too close to him. Clearly the marriage was troubled in some way. It seems to me like the AP might be the only person with intimate knowledge of what was really going on with him in those weeks before the murders.

 

[evrli]

Yes, BUT she could have shared all of that to "friends only" or even just specific friends without privacy being set to "public" for all the world to see. (By default, nearly all of my fb posts are to "friends only.")

If a man/woman is happily married...would they still have an affair?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

My Dad was an attorney so he absolutely would have said ' keep your mouth shut' and wait for your lawyer to arrive before you answer any questions.

Question for our esteemed lawyers.

Can the prosecution call his father as a witness, I can't remember if he's in the witness list. Would he be a hostile witness perhaps and can he be put on the stand to answer questions about what the conversation was in the car?

Or will they test the waters over the next year to see if it would be like a George Anthony and Cindy Anthony situation, where it's iffy and they may not tell the truth, so they don't want to put them on the stand?

ETA edited typo

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

It's amazing, isn't it? One minute we wonder how we got along without i-phones and such, and the next minute we wish there were no such thing -- well, really, not really that often!
I just this week closed my f-book account -- the only reason I signed-up for it was to use it for WS -- I have never used it for anything else. I got paranoid about it since I didn't know that much about the privacy, etc., etc., so I just slinked away from it. I think I'll survive -- but nothing against it -- my DH uses it a lot to "talk" with his fishing buddies and old HS & college buds.

I can see how SW and her company could use it as a tool to get the word out on new products, specials, events, etc. That probably helped her by her not having to leave the house when there was something special going on -- and also to keep her family & friends in touch with the girls. Now that has come to a horrible, screeching halt. No more cute little girl antics and fun times. But the ones that were sent will at least still be out there.
Not so sure about CW's, however.

Yes! A few years ago, people using the internet for business were blogging. And their followers would, well, follow their blogs. Then we had email newsletters. And we still have both. And there are mixed opinions about whether blogs are passe or email newsletters are even read.

Then FB came along. I'm a web designer and I encourage customers to NOT solely rely on FB for business. Many people hate it, will never sign on, etc., so if you are a restaurant, for example, and only have a FB page? Guess what. Some of your customers who aren't on FB will never see your site, your menu, your gallery pages. I firmly believe as a business you still need to NOT put all of your eggs in one basket. You still need a website outside of ANY SM venues. That said... it IS a good tool for the masses who do use it. And I know many, many small business owners who put FB to good use with BUSINESS topics. They are not posting about husband/child/family issues on their BUSINESS page. The business page focuses on the business; their personal pages are locked for family. I think SWs straddled both worlds.

That is... I have a friend who is a potter. She is using FB Live Video to post these amazing mini live studio scenes of her at the wheel making her newest creations. She may show the dog or hubby in a background scene but they are not the focus. I am thinking that what we've seen here with the plethora of SWs videos is that her homelife was merged into her business life, because her business supposedly helped her home life. That is, she claimed her Le-Vel products helped her feel better and thusly made her a better, more energetic mom/wife and she showed proof with family shots. Got it. If my friend, who is a potter, used Le-Vel, maybe her FB vids would only show her in the studio because her goal was to sell pottery. Others who have no hobbies and for whom their family is their life, have to, well, show family in the vids to "prove" that the product was helping their home life.

 

[evrli]

BBM.

Yes, I agree. By making her fb posts "public," whenever any of her friends would comment on her posts, or 'like' her posts, then her friends' friends would see her posts, too, so by doing that it was a good way to extend her "reach," as they call it. Yeah, I feel certain you are right, that this was her intention.

yes..it's called "networking" ........... best way is thru SM...

 

[Bill Carson]

Apologies, and thank you. I mixed up preliminary hearing and arraignment apparently.

Chris Watts waives preliminary hearing in court appearance, will be held without bond

"Watts and his attorney waived his right to a preliminary hearing within 35 days and asked for a status conference to be held instead. People charged with the highest-degree felonies are allowed preliminary hearings so prosecutors can show cause that the case should proceed in court. Watts' attorney and prosecutors agreed that an evidentiary and discovery hearing could be held in the case as well.

Prosecutors will have 63 days after Watts' arraignment to decide if they will seek the death penalty in the case. If they do not, Watts would face mandatory life in prison without the possibility of parole if he is convicted on any of the murder charges."

Perhaps my confusion was seeing there was a status conference, and I have no idea when the arraignment is going to be. The media said it was on November 19th, but I thought that was a status conference. I guess that would be the arraignment?

I'm not sure, but I think the arraignment will be called "the arraignment" when they have it.

Here in Colorado, a "status conference" is when the parties and their attorneys appear in front of the judge to check on the case and make sure it is proceeding accordingly. It's kind of like a meeting to let the judge know "where we're at" on the case: what still needs to be done, are we ready to set the trial date, does anybody need the judge to order anything, etc., etc. That way cases don't get lost in litigation limbo.

 

[nwmouse]

I have a gut feeling that we'll never see a trial. Either he'll take his own life (he's weak) or he'll make a deal. The defense attorney's seem good and they must know the truth, or some of it, and should be honest with him.

I hope this does come to trial, to give closure to both families and friends. It will never bring back pregnant mom SW and the toddlers, but hopefully the families/friends will be able to cope once justice is served. CW offing himself serves no use to anyone imho. MOO.

 

[MyBelle]

I was addressing the quoted post that said (paraphrasing) that the TO pics did not equate to inappropriate parenting & I explained why I felt differently. I also stated it was my personal opinion based on my professional knowledge and current AACAP research, and you could take it or leave it.

To be clear, I grew up with spankings & that’s definitely now looked down upon (though plenty of people still do it). I’m not suggesting that anyone who disciplines their children in a way I disagree with is more likely to murder them, which is what I feel like some of you are taking my previous post to mean.

What I am looking at is much more complicated. (Disclaimer: my mind is not made up yet, as I am looking at all possibilities & using my observations & the little information we have available to us to form my opinion).

I’ve noted in many of SW’s posts & videos that she portrays herself as a good parent who is dealing with an ungrateful child/children. The child is either directly or indirectly asking for nurturance & their mother attempts to provide it (sometimes—I also see incidents were it is refused). When that nurturance is somehow rejected, the child is cast as “bad” or “ungrateful.” The parent then withholds affection or even becomes angry with the child.

An example: The Santa video, where Bella & CeCe are scared & indirectly ask for nurturance in their own way, are refused it by their mother. CeCe is hysterical & is ignored. Bella is hesitant and clingy but is made to interact with Santa. She does not enjoy it, and expresses that to her mother (which is entirely appropriate for a child that age to express her autonomy). Her mother then casts Bella as “bad” or “ungrateful” by repeatedly calling her The Grinch.

Does this mean she killed her children? No. Does it raise red flags for me & any other poster here with a psychological background? I believe so.

It does raise red flags for me when it is obvious that the parent is emotionally unavailable and is unaware the child is merely reacting to the situation the parent has placed her in. I also wonder if SW was suffering from depression. The audience she seems to want to impress the most is herself. JMO

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

SBM.

I did want to add one thing, however, for clarification. I think it is unfair that we see so much of SW's life through her SM and none of CW's, but I do not think it is inappropriate for us and the public to look at SW's social media. We're curious. We want to find a reason this happened. We can only look at the information available to us. Plus, the dynamics of the relationship between all of the family members does tell us something, even if that is an incomplete and distorted picture.

But we have to be careful not to be too judgmental retroactively.

Very true. I wonder how much of the SM videos / photos will be used in court, which could work disproportionately against one party if one party has zillions and one has very few, mostly sports-based as we've heard. 'Tis a new era! And really? What is FACT? Even close family members who may insist A could never have done X and B could never have done Y... that is their subjective opinion based on what they observed firsthand or were told ... and we all know we don't often tell even close family what we might be going through for various reasons.

 

[Charlot123]

I am of the impression that if there was a hidden camera and CW was seen on video murdering everyone in the house, and if he finally came out and admitted doing exactly that, there are people who absolutely would still blame SW. Some people don't realize why they want her to be guilty, but I think some people (not saying this about ANY individual posting in here) do not like her or perhaps do not like her perfectionism or for some hidden reason just plain don't like her and so she will always be at fault. JMO, MOO. Mind boggling to me.

I think if it comes to spousal relationships, it is easy to imagine a “shrew” who is pushing and pushing and pushing and can’t stop till the guy snaps. Truth is, we all saw such examples in life. I have observed such a family.

So people can identify with a meek guy who once gets violent. It is in human nature, to respond in a certain way to a controlling person, we all remember a mother, a sister, a teacher, or someone else with such traits. It is probably transference at work.

But the girls he killed would totally change the game for me. A father killing a 2- and 3-year old, hello?

 

[katydid23]

I was addressing the quoted post that said (paraphrasing) that the TO pics did not equate to inappropriate parenting & I explained why I felt differently. I also stated it was my personal opinion based on my professional knowledge and current AACAP research, and you could take it or leave it..

inappropriate:
not suitable or proper in the circumstances.
synonyms: unsuitable, unfitting, unseemly, unbecoming, unbefitting, improper, impolite;


It seems unfair, imo, to label her parenting as inappropriate. Nothing in your posted 'research' by the experts called timeouts unseemly or unbecoming, etc.

SW has no professional experience, nor years of studying AACAP Research. She is just a young Mom, doing what she was taught by her Mom and her friends. To label her parenting as unseemly or improper seems wrong, imo.

To be clear, I grew up with spankings & that’s definitely now looked down upon (though plenty of people still do it). I’m not suggesting that anyone who disciplines their children in a way I disagree with is more likely to murder them, which is what I feel like some of you are taking my previous state to mean.

Ok, then what is the point of all of the criticism of her parenting techniques?

What I am looking at is much more complicated. (Disclaimer: my mind is not made up yet, as I am looking at all possibilities & using my observations & the little information we have available to us to form my opinion).

I’ve noted in many of SW’s posts & videos that she portrays herself as a good parent who is dealing with an ungrateful child/children. The child is either directly or indirectly asking for nurturance & their mother attempts to provide it (sometimes—I also see incidents were it is refused). When that nurturance is somehow rejected, the child is cast as “bad” or “ungrateful.” The parent then withholds affection or even becomes angry with the child.

An example: The Santa video, where Bella & CeCe are scared & indirectly ask for nurturance in their own way, are refused it by their mother. CeCe is hysterical & is ignored. Bella is hesitant and clingy but is made to interact with Santa. She does not enjoy it, and expresses that to her mother (which is entirely appropriate for a child that age to express her autonomy). Her mother then casts Bella as “bad” or “ungrateful” by repeatedly calling her The Grinch. .

wow. That is quite a stretch, in my opinion. We don't know the context of the Grinch comments. They probably just watched to film or read the book that holiday week. So she was explaining to Bella how she was acting Grumpy. I don't see that as a horrible thing. That is not calling her ungrateful or bad, It is what it is.

Most of all, I see her as a very nurturing and engaged mother. She is totally communicative and available for her kids. I used to call my son the 'grouch' because he got grouchy quite a bit. It helped him understand how he was behaving because he knew all his Sesame Street characters. Was that inappropriate? I don't know but I do know I never did it maliciously.

As to the Santa lap picture incident---what is the big deal? You say Bella didn't 'enjoy it.' SO? Does a child have to instantly 'enjoy' every new experience we offer them? Later Bella will see those pictures and realize it wasn't that scary after all.

Are we supposed to stop immediately every time a toddler says NO to something? My son wouldn't have ever broadened his horizons if so. we had to force the issue with many new things, which he would quickly learn to accept.

Does this mean she killed her children? No. Does it raise red flags for me & any other poster here with a psychological background? I believe so.

What do the red flags symbolize then?

 

[Layla123]

I may be the only one who thinks this, but if it were my son, I would want him to tell the TRUTH!!! I hope he would understand, as I have taught him, there are consequences for your actions. Would a parent actually tell their child to lie in a situation like that? But, God only knows what he told his dad. We will probably never know what his dad truly believes happened either. What son wants to admit to his parent he killed the grand babies. And, I believe he did kill the grandbabies, all three of them. JMO MOO

Yes, but when you’ve committed a triple murder like he did, you’re facing the Death Penalty. There are different degrees of murder, and your fate will be a negotiation arrangement between the State and the Defense, or an all out battle in court. It’s best to shut your mouth and put yourself in your lawyer’s hands. Unfortunately, the State isn’t always fair.

 

[Thepoet]

I don't get the feeling that he will suicide and I also don't think that he is man enough to own up to his actions.
He knows what he did and is now probably trying to justify his lie about SW killing the girls to protect his remaining family's honour.

Good points. The thing is though, he's inherently weak. He created an image, with SW's help, that he liked and probably reveled in. He began to experience new things, like a lover, that he came to believe he deserved. He wanted more and likely resented being denied. Now he's back in a position of needing to be told what to do. Remember, he needed to talk to Daddy, before he could "tell the truth". Now he's staring at the abyss without any close support. If an opportunity presented itself, I could see him pulling the plug. I could also see a strong person or persons guiding him to a deal, to avoid years of bad publicity and a possible DS!

 

[searchinGirl]

I’ve never seen anything like it. So far, no one is willing to put their name out there to defend C.W. I don’t know what that means. I don’t know if CW’s father stayed in Colorado, or if he went back home. I imagine if he stayed in Colorado, he’d stay at CW’s house, hotels can get expensive, but you’d think some news organization would have filmed him coming and going, but so far, nothing. From what I’ve seen, I lean toward his father is horrified and wants nothing to do with him. But I don’t know. Maybe, the Defense has advised him to stay quiet and away.

I can’t imagine C.W. father wants nothing to do with him. He’s been put in a horrible situation. The way the media is these days, they blame him too. His heart is broken. I understand why C.W. parents are keeping a low profile. I’m sure they don’t want to be on camera.

 

[nwmouse]

FACT:
CW was having an ongoing affair at the time SW,BW,and CW passed.

Was CW Affair Person(AP) a MALE or FEMALE?
Did AP work for ANADARKO or THRIVE?

AFAIK there was a male AP TB who popped up and went on the talkshow circuit but he is not verified.
There is a female AP that is allegedly from Andarko, his work.
Not sure about others who told MSM about strangulation and rape fantasies, that has not been verified afaik.
AP worked for Andarko, not Thrive afaik.
MOO MOO

 

[sun16]

Respectfully speaking, not everyone here who wants to discuss all possibilities are saying awful, terrible things and victim bashing. Many members here haven't been looking at stuff from the internet in general or comments from SM so maybe that's where some of the confusion comes in.

I'm stuck on "what if" and I can't seem to get past "what if". I know the odds are stacked against CW and by his own admissions. But in all seriousness - what if? I've seen things play out much different before and I'm just not ready to say one or the other.

Can we think of any other cases that seemed stacked one way, and there were major surprises once a trial started and details/evidence came out, and the what if was actually true?

 

[Thepoet]

I hope this does come to trial, to give closure to both families and friends. It will never bring back pregnant mom SW and the toddlers, but hopefully the families/friends will be able to cope once justice is served. CW offing himself serves no use to anyone imho. MOO.

I agree whole-heartedly. I don't want him to commit suicide, but I can see it happening. If it does, the truth, or most of it, should come out. And, a trial doesn't guarantee the truth or closure, unfortunately. It could be like the MacDonald trial, or a circus like OJ. Look at all the silliness and vitriol already.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Very well said. Bravo! I just want to repeat;

SW was a fighter and she made things better.

There is no evidence SW lied. CW has been caught at, and has admitted to lying!

There is no evidence that SW committed adultery. CW is an admitted adulterer!

There is no evidence that SW ever obstructed justice. CW has admitted to obstructing justice!

There is no evidence SW harmed anyone. CW has admitted killing Shanann and Nico.

There is compelling evidence SW, Bella, Cece, and Nico are victims. There is no evidence that CW is a victim!

How do the scales balance?

Fantastic...one quick addition:

There is no evidence (quite to the contrary) that SW would not have dialed 911 to save her child she found actively being strangled. There is evidence CW did not by his own admission and 911 records.

 

[Bill Carson]

If a man/woman is happily married...would they still have an affair?

Hard question.

I would say: That sometimes temptations occur that may lead to an affair that was not preplanned.

That an affair does not always indicate that a person does not love their spouse or is unhappy in their marriage.

But an affair is a pretty good indication that not all of that spouse's needs are being met in the marriage. (And please don't construe this observation to mean that an affair is justified or that the other spouse is "at fault" when not all needs are being met.)

Edited for clarity.

 

[MassGuy]

It does raise red flags for me when it is obvious that the parent is emotionally unavailable and is unaware the child is merely reacting to the situation the parent has placed her in. I also wonder if SW was suffering from depression. The audience she seems to want to impress the most is herself. JMO

The audience she wanted to impress most, were Thrive customers (or potential ones).

Some of the posts may have not have had that intent, but if you ignore the context, you misread the content.

 

[nwmouse]

Yes, but when you’ve committed a triple murder like he did, you’re facing the Death Penalty. There are different degrees of murder, and your fate will be a negotiation arrangement between the State and the Defense, or an all out battle in court. It’s best to shut your mouth and put yourself in your lawyer’s hands. Unfortunately, the State isn’t always fair.

Not sure if he will face the DP though, its been talked about here as CO has not carried out a DP in decades.
Not a lawyer but perhaps they will use the DP as a bargaining plea deal?