Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #36

[Amonet]

IMO, CW would’ve thought that an “I was asleep all night” alibi would have been easy enough to avoid suspicion.

When he did see her, apparently it was at 2am, and was “real quick,” per one of his interviews.

So imagine CW in bed from around 2am-5am 2am-4am

Why would CW have pushed the conversation as far out as he could, but not as far as the time in which his truck backed into the garage? And why not say they had an emotional conversation way earlier, when she arrived at 2am?

IMO, seems he might have been trying to divert LE attention away from something that may have occurred between 2am - 4am. Jmo

That is very good thinking!

ETA I thought in another case that someone's stories seemed to be avoiding certain rooms and I thought that was suspicious. I never thought of the same thing maybe happening here with regard to the times that CW was avoiding...that makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I agree Shekkiec. IMO A lot of theories, guesses, ideas, have been posted as to what would lead a seemingly normal man to commit these crimes. Some of the theories are very unpopular and some have been dissected and discussed again and again. I posted my theory as to what happened on a previous thread (CW being gay and not wanting his secret revealed) and while it definitely does not fit with the majority, I felt very safe posting it on here. I think we are all asking questions, throwing ideas out, even if they don't seem to be relevant, because this is a safe place to do so and our family/friends are probably sick of talking about this case. I know mine are.

If the affair with a man is borne out, I agree that could be a big part of his identity issue and reason for family annihilation. While today's society is (rightfully, IMO) much more accepting of bi or homosexuality, a great number of people are still tied to antiquated thinking on this, IMO, particularly perhaps for family in the south. The fear must be compounded by the fact that it is not just an issue of sexual orientation, but that of a married, family man with another child on the way. But at this point we just do not know whether this was an issue in this case or if there was any real fear of exposure if he was bisexual. So I think people don't feel comfortable speculating on it when it hasn't been established as fact, IMO.

 

[Layla123]

“It’s possible that putting the girls in separate tanks may have been some sort of symbolic thing done with a loved one after death.” I thought it was so interesting when AB and her guest discussed this, yesterday. Creepy, but interesting. It’s the only reason both of them could come up with for CW placing the girls in separate tanks. I’ve never heard of murderers offering meaningful, symbolic gestures to their victims before. Has anyone else?

 

[Mellowmelly]

The kids very well may have been killed first, but the lack of screaming probably doesn’t provide evidence of this, one way or another.

The kids may not have heard anything, they may have and not screamed, they could have screamed and no one heard them (kids don’t scream as loud as adults). Some people freeze under stress and terror, the kids may have as well.

True, they may not have heard anything, or if they did I agree their screams wouldn’t be as loud as an adults screams. I do think he planned it all though and he killed the girls first, which would mean he would have had to silence SW before she seen her babies lifeless. We will not know until more information is released by LE. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

There was just the one. Others are speculating about them filing again, which they wouldn't be allowed to do after only 3 years.

Oh I see. I thought it would be more than 3 years. Jmo I think it's eight years anyway...

 

[MassGuy]

“It’s possible that putting the girls in separate tanks may have been some sort of symbolic thing done with a loved one after death.” I thought it was so interesting when AB and her guest discussed this, yesterday. Creepy, but interesting. It’s the only reason both of them could come up with for CW placing the girls in separate tanks. I’ve never heard of murderers offering meaningful, symbolic gestures to their victims before. Has anyone else?

Sometimes, but it’s unusual, and I don’t think that’s the case here.

I think they were placed in separate tanks for a logistical reason, and I smiled when AB responded with something to the effect of “wouldn’t a loving father put his kids together?”

A loving father would. And he wouldn’t kill his family in the first place.

 

[MassGuy]

True, they may not have heard anything, or if they did I agree their screams wouldn’t be as loud as an adults screams. I do think he planned it all though and he killed the girls first, which would mean he would have had to silence SW before she seen her babies lifeless. We will not know until more information is released by LE. JMO

Agreed. I’m torn myself. I just don’t think there’s enough information here to reach a conclusion as to if this was completely premeditated, or even the order of the killings.

 

[Mrspratcher]

I agree Shekkiec. IMO A lot of theories, guesses, ideas, have been posted as to what would lead a seemingly normal man to commit these crimes. Some of the theories are very unpopular and some have been dissected and discussed again and again. I posted my theory as to what happened on a previous thread (CW being gay and not wanting his secret revealed) and while it definitely does not fit with the majority, I felt very safe posting it on here. I think we are all asking questions, throwing ideas out, even if they don't seem to be relevant, because this is a safe place to do so and our family/friends are probably sick of talking about this case. I know mine are.

That was actually my Hubby's take on the case.

 

[MsBetsy]

Sometimes, but it’s unusual, and I don’t think that’s the case here.

I think they were placed in separate tanks for a logistical reason, and I smiled when AB responded with something to the effect of “wouldn’t a loving father put his kids together?”

A loving father would. And he wouldn’t kill his family in the first place.

I think it was simply a matter of convenience. I think the oil distribution theory might be true. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

True, they may not have heard anything, or if they did I agree their screams wouldn’t be as loud as an adults screams. I do think he planned it all though and he killed the girls first, which would mean he would have had to silence SW before she seen her babies lifeless. We will not know until more information is released by LE. JMO

I don't think he would have wanted to deal with the confrontation if she had seen them, and he did what was easiest for him, which was to kill the girls first. Or maybe he actually was considerate enough to kill her before she knew her babies were dead. If that makes any sense.

 

[MsBetsy]

Hi Hatfield. I know MassGuy has already answered your question, but thought I'd pass along this handy link where you can find all of the court documents including the arrest affidavit, complaint and all of the motions filed so far: Colorado Judicial Branch


I agree, she would find one easily.

Happy Birthday, @MsBetsy!

OMG, thank you!!!!!!

 

[Lady Justice21]

Agreed. I’m torn myself. I just don’t think there’s enough information here to reach a conclusion as to if this was completely premeditated, or even the order of the killings.

In other family annihilator cases is there a "typical" pattern. Either kids than spouse or spouse then kids? Or is it a mixed bag?

IMO I'd think the first would have to be the one that is the primary target or source of whatever your "reason" is. Maybe?

 

[Misy]

Hi everyone! AB did a bit recently about the videos that were posted by SW per month, starting I think in May. Lots & lots as you can imagine. There were a few, way less I think, when she went back to NC. But interestingly, when CW showed up for that last week, she didnt post any videos at all during that time. Not one. Zero.
If true I wonder why.

Do we know.... did CW stay with his family when he visited NC for that week? And SW and the girls at her family's? Did CW stay where SW and the girls were staying? Maybe one of the V1's know... TIA !

ETA....were they basically estranged at that point? We know he was distant and someone (SW?) talked of a separation. I suppose it doesn't make much difference now, but I wonder why no videos of CW back together with the family after 5 weeks apart. So maybe not such a happy reunion. And where, then, did everyone stay?

 

[Backstroke10]

If the affair with a man is borne out, I agree that could be a big part of his identity issue and reason for family annihilation. While today's society is (rightfully, IMO) much more accepting of bi or homosexuality, a great number of people are still tied to antiquated thinking on this, IMO, particularly perhaps for family in the south. The fear must be compounded by the fact that it is not just an issue of sexual orientation, but that of a married, family man with another child on the way. But at this point we just do not know whether this was an issue in this case or if there was any real fear of exposure if he was bisexual. So I think people don't feel comfortable speculating on it when it hasn't been established as fact, IMO.

Wow, thanks Best of What's Around, for that excellent, thoughtful and insightful post! In the same post with my theory, I also stated that my son had come out as bisexual (later stating he was gay). I agree, society today is more accepting. However, being from the deep south and now living in Texas, it has been extremely difficult for him. Not one of his friends (in their 20's) that are gay have told their parents. I share this only because if CW was keeping this secret, and like you said "if the affair with a man is borne out", I can see this being a significant factor in his family annihilation. I am NOT making any excuses for CW. I am just sharing my idea as to what may have led to this.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I don't think he would have wanted to deal with the confrontation if she had seen them, and he did what was easiest for him, which was to kill the girls first. Or maybe he actually was considerate enough to kill her before she knew her babies were dead. If that makes any sense.

I agree, I think in order to avoid that confrontation he had to have ambushed her almost as soon as she came through the door. IMO if it wasn’t planned he would not have been so calm the next day in his interviews. He would possibly be in shock and grief for his children, even if he had killed them. It’s just the feeling I get from the facts so far, I could be completely wrong.

 

[Serena Angelique]

SW may have purchased Thrive products in the beginning. But after she referred 2 people who began to use the products, she received hers for free. As additional people joined, she continued to earn free product. Once she became a promoter and built her team, she would have been eligible to receive many of the new products at no cost. She then was able to use the product, or give away samples to increase sales.

Although; she could have written many of her expenses (product purchase- if any, home office, cell phone, Apple watch, internet, clothing, etc.) off on business taxes. I (personally) don't believe her business was contributing to any financial hardship at the time of her death.

“It’s possible that putting the girls in separate tanks may have been some sort of symbolic thing done with a loved one after death.” I thought it was so interesting when AB and her guest discussed this, yesterday. Creepy, but interesting. It’s the only reason both of them could come up with for CW placing the girls in separate tanks. I’ve never heard of murderers offering meaningful, symbolic gestures to their victims before. Has anyone else?

I read that crude oil has the capacity to gradually decompose tissue and bone over time. It could be possible that if he had known this then he may have felt that them being in separate tanks would have made this process more expedient. Just a thought.

 

[BabyButterfly]

That was actually my Hubby's take on the case.

I have to say, when my hubby saw CW interview, he looked at me and said did Shanann know she married someone who was gay? I ignored him, but, who knows?

 

[maeleemae]

Interesting read about Apple watches, being able to track movements and possibly exonerate SW from that ridiculous story about her killing the children.

A cynical side of me, just can't believe that this family took out bankruptcy, less than 3 years ago (2015?), and yet they are living pretty well, Apple watches, private nursery school, new cars, fancy house.

CW made $65,000 a year. That covers the basics, without a lot left over...SW was earning more, based on sales, but this can fluctuate. And the HOA fees, were being ignored. Interesting.

I don't understand folks who live in debt, it is tremendous pressure to maintain that facade. At some point, everything crashes.

Because it has to do with their finances and for no other reason I’d be interested to know how much SW earned. Does anyone know for certain? We don’t know how much inventory she bought, or freebies for marketing strategies, or airfare for the VIP mini getaways. There’s an up to $800 monthly bonus to put towards a luxury car at the 12k or above VIP rank. But that doesn’t include insurance and if you dip below that 12k the lease is in her name so she would be responsible for that month. It’s a new company (2013) and she apparently was a go getter so I imagine for those two reasons she was doing well. But what happens when the company becomes saturated with promoters? That is a moot point because she’s been killed. I honestly feel like the constant live videos affected this family adversely. I may not be thrilled that I’m now “older” but when I think back on my youth, families were closer. When I go out to a restaurant all I see are people on their phones. It’s sad, really.

 

[MassGuy]

In other family annihilator cases is there a "typical" pattern. Either kids than spouse or spouse then kids? Or is it a mixed bag?

IMO I'd think the first would have to be the one that is the primary target or source of whatever your "reason" is. Maybe?

The most common pattern is wife first, as she is the object or “primary target” as you put it.

If you think about it in purely practical terms, it makes sense that the wife would come before the kids.

Your plan is contingent upon killing them all, and the wife represents the biggest threat (fighting back, calling authorities, escaping).

 

[Backstroke10]

That was actually my Hubby's take on the case.

How interesting. Thanks Mrspratcher.