Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #36

[MerryB]

But those specific traits (not having friends, being quiet, etc) are pretty much standard with family annihilators.

How do we know he had no friends?

 

[MsBetsy]

My point is that it doesn’t prove he is. I’m willing to bet there are more people with those specific traits that aren’t family annihilators than are.
jmo

Well, yes, I certainly hope so. But the question is how many family annihilators don't have these traits? Or do? Does he fit the criteria?

 

[gitana1]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/U Peoples Notice.pdf

So autopsy is in. Any idea when we will know if it will be released before trial?

Edit for spelling error

Under the circumstances, that was quick!!

The defense will now review it and decide whether they too want it to be sealed. If so, the media has the opportunity to demand it's released.

So first the defense will respond to the people's motion. Then the media will have their say via responses to the motion.

Then the judge will make a decision.

Let me see what the timeline in the original order says.

 

[Thepoet]

In fact, didn't her teacher from high school point out that although she was shy and insecure in high school (which is common to me) he was so impressed by how much self confidence she had developed as an adult?

Yes, that's true and they remained friends.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

I'm going to make a rough guesstimate for CW's total compensation:

His 2015 base as an Anadarko operator was $61,500. If you conservatively add 2 years of raises of 3.5% to that you get $65,880. The average Anadarko salary is $105K and the average bonus is 15K, which is roughly a 14% annual bonus. This puts CW's total compensation with bonus (not including overtime) at $75K, which just so happens to match the average total compensation for an Anadarko operator.

Anadarko Petroleum Operator Salaries | Paysa

 

[Thepoet]

How do we know he had no friends?

Didn't Trinket tell us that, and that SW was his first serious relationship?

 

[gitana1]

I'm just so curious what type of defense the defense team can even put on. If it's motive and they stick with CW killed SW because she killed their daughters - well, that's his motive. If they decide that story is stupid because of how unlikely it would be that he would kill his wife in the same exact manner that she killed their daughters and then staged an elaborate cover up and disposal of bodies and fake worry news interviews, then hopefully there is enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did in fact murder the girls. He already confessed to killing SW.

I am not an attorney, but will any other factors like finances or social media or MLM matter in terms of being able to get a conviction? Those may be contributing factors as to the "why" - but do they add up to evidence? Is introducing reasons "why" CW may have done this enough to win a case? I still can't believe any juror would believe SW went into a rage and killed both kids and CW reacted by killing her. If he felt the slightest bit remorseful over what he has done to his family, he should spare her family the pain, confess to the truth, and spare everyone a charade of innocence. I get he is entitled to due process and a legal defense, but it is infuriating if he is blaming HIS crime as his VICTIM'S doing!

ETA: I guess what I am ultimately trying to say is:
- If CW says he killed SW because she was killing the kids - no other factors are coming into play. It was because he claims he saw her doing this.
- If this was not the reason why, and it was because - pick a reason - she was annoying, on SM all the time, he had a new love interest, he wanted a fresh start, debt, her MLM life was taking over - well, none of those are acceptable reasons for murder. It doesn't really matter why he killed her or what else was going on in their lives. It's a crime. Isn't that enough? Those aren't extenuating circumstances.

Anything can be a mitigator at least which could lessen his sentence even if he's found guilty.

So I expect every bit of salacious garbage and dirt against SW that they can get a judge to agree to admit into evidence, to come out at trial.

 

[MerryB]

What would they have to lose if they were confident that their friend was telling the truth?

I did not mean the friends were seeking representation. I meant that the defense has advised friends & family members of CW to stay silent for now in order to protect the investigation and future trial. MOO

 

[ZsaZsa]

No

How about the Thayers? They thought they knew him, but they had a lot to say about his apathy towards SW,BW,CCW when they were ' missing'.

 

[Thepoet]

Under the circumstances, that was quick!!

The defense will now review it and decide whether they too want it to be sealed. If so, the media has the opportunity to demand it's released.

So first the defense will respond to the people's motion. Then the media will have their say via responses to the motion.

Then the judge will make a decision.

Let me see what the timeline in the original order says.

Thanks so much Gitana.

 

[searchinGirl]

Do we have evidence the Watts were currently unable to pay their mortgage/bills? I think I missed something. Did something new come out about their finances?

There was an Assignment of Deed of Trust filed in July 2015 to Chase. It’s usually made in the process of Foreclosure. It only showed up in a search I made recently. I suspect it was indexed incorrectly at first. But it’s there now at Weld County Clerk & Recorder. It’s most likely related to the Bankruptcy.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

My point is that it doesn’t prove he is. I’m willing to bet there are more people with those specific traits that aren’t family annihilators than are.
jmo

You're not wrong that many people have those traits. Nothing can prove him being the killer 100% unless there's a video of the crime. But like someone else said, if it walks like a duck. Add up these traits as well as all of the other known facts we have (so far) and there's a very very good case for him being a family annihilator.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I mean that's the point. It's basic logic. The traits don't prove anything. They just support the madness of these cases and that seemingly normal men with no signs of the horror to come, commit such shockingly violent atrocities. And there's no way to predict it or prevent it.

I don't think most of us want to hear that or believe it. It's too scary.

We are going around and around -

"I don't think he's a murderer because he was reported to be such a great dad and a nice person."

"Yes but those are the very traits of a family annihilator."

"Well that doesn't prove he is one."

No but it does show why his reputation doesn't DISPROVE his commission of these crimes.

Amandaaa said: ↑
I feel like I’m always the one that looks at things differently, *sigh*

if nothing else, it will provide the rest of you with something to discuss

Yes, there’s a lengthy list of potential evidence in this case - but people are drawing different conclusions from the same facts. It doesn’t mean they’re ignoring facts - just reaching different conclusions. And that’s to be expected. That’s what happens on juries, too.

For instance: his interviews. It’s a fact that he gave them, and what was said during each of them, and his body language, etc. But people may draw very different conclusions about the importance of those interviews, or whether they are evidence he killed everyone. One person may think “yes, he’s definitely lying (which we know to be the case)... look at his body language and listen to the strange things he’s saying...why would he do this unless he killed them all?” Another person may think “yes, he’s definitely lying, but we KNOW he lied... and he had just disposed of 3 bodies... of course he’s nervous, and trying to preserve himself... but that doesn’t mean he killed them all.”

That’s just one example of many. Now, I’m not looking to get into an argument about whether or not a particular person could conclude one way or the other... because I can tell you they can, and they do. But that’s just my own personal experience - which has taught me to be very careful to analyze and distinguish facts from assumptions/conclusions. Because while some of those assumptions and conclusions are absolutely rational and likely true - that doesn’t mean that others will view things the same way.

Right now, we still don’t know very much about this case. We are grasping at any little bit of information we can find, turning it over and over and over... the media is doing the exact same thing. Expert after expert on tv and in the articles - and even THEY aren’t reaching the same conclusions!

We don’t know what else they have, or will have in the future. We don’t know if some of the evidence will be deemed inadmissible at trial. We don’t know the composition of the jury, or the identity of the judge that will hear the case. We don’t know which attorneys on either side will try the case. All of that comes into play.

One thing is clear - we need more information. It is taking FOR.EV.ER!!!


@Amandaaa thank you for your post. It’s excellent and you are much better than I am at explaining why some are looking at things different than others.
jmo

 

[tmar]

But then I would wonder why. If I were her I would want to be as far away from this case and him as humanly possible.

She could be used, by Police, in obtaining info from CW:
wired during visits.
She possibly aided Police, in this way, prior to the arrest.

 

[Thepoet]

I did not mean the friends were seeking representation. I meant that the defense has advised friends & family members of CW to stay silent for now in order to protect the investigation and future trial. MOO

That's very possible, that friends and family of CW have been advised to keep a low profile. That doesn't mean what they have to say would be good. We don't know, until it comes out.

 

[gitana1]

How do we know he had no friends?

We don't. I've seen no evidence that he's had close ones except Mr. Thayer who now apparently believes he's guilty.

The people who spoke about him - high school acquaintance, roommate, high school teacher, a girl he knew in high school who kept in touch with him via FB - all sort of made statements that indicate to me he was a bit of a loner. Withdrawn. Not good with the ladies. Didn't respond to the girls who liked him. Studious.

I haven't heard anything or seen anything to indicate any close ties to friends beyond the Thayers.

 

[PommyMommy]

There was an Assignment of Deed of Trust filed in July 2015 to Chase. It’s usually made in the process of Foreclosure. It only showed up in a search I made recently. I suspect it was indexed incorrectly at first. But it’s there now at Weld County Clerk & Recorder. It’s most likely related to the Bankruptcy.

It is also used when a lender sells a loan to another lender. Do you have the document?
MOO

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I did not mean the friends were seeking representation. I meant that the defense has advised friends & family members of CW to stay silent for now in order to protect the investigation and future trial. MOO

Could be, although I would think the defense would want positive stories and opinions put out about CW. He needs all the help he can get at this point.

 

[Layla123]

I would be afraid to speak out for CW if I was a friend of his. People are so mad and upset pertaining to this tragedy they might attack a so called friend of CW. No way would I say anything.

The host of the last birthday party they went to, Jeremy Lindstrom, spoke very highly of CW. He said CW was a great guy, always there to help, but he still thought CW committed all 3 murders. He was pretty much shocked by the way everything went down.

 

[Shekkiec]

How about the Thayers? They thought they knew him, but they had a lot to say about his apathy towards SW,BW,CCW when they were ' missing'.

They felt safe enough to have him in their house and if you listen to the interview which I can provide link they were extremely surprised. Nick Thayer even ran with them , they had holidays together . I thought the question was related to signs of character beforehand imo