Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #37

[Thepoet]

Thanks - I am here to see if I can offer anything based on my professional experience and understanding of the legal process. I’m trying to be as impartial as I can and minimize any personal opinions/thoughts.

The legal system is fairly complicated - often times (especially in criminal cases) there are routine motions and objections based on constitutional issues or potential defenses - to the uninitiated, they may look suspicious but in all reality they’re just a sign of good representation and our judicial process at work.

Thanks for your valuable insight, also for the calming words you've offered a number of times.. it must be interesting from your view point; the high emotions mixed with the labyrinth of the legal system. Thanks again for helping us understand.

 

[Lady Justice21]

Nothing new, why was CW held with no bond or bail?

1. The evidence against him for the crime was absolutely ironclad?
2. He is considered a flight risk?
3. He is considered a suicide risk?
4. Is he considered a danger to the community?
It is interesting that McDonald, who also killed his two daughters and pregnant wife, was out on bond. However, this crime was over 40 years ago.

IMO in Colorado a murder 1 charge is a no bond charge.

 

[Amandaaa]

Thanks for your valuable insight, also for the calming words you've offered a number of times.. it must be interesting from your view point; the high emotions mixed with the labyrinth of the legal system. Thanks again for helping us understand.

Thank you... I totally understand why emotions are flying high on this one - The facts are absolutely horrible, no matter HOW it actually played out.

I think my value here is in my ability to potentially assist in providing a bit of a framework within which people can analyze the facts and arrive at their own conclusions... not in offering my personal opinion (which would simply add more fuel to the fire).

 

[The Saint]

I'm wondering whether Shanann really wrote Chris' college paper about relationships. Maybe those were her thoughts about the danger of cheating with someone in the workplace and that a baby can sometimes help
a troubled marriage.

I wouldn't call CW a cut-out cardboard figure. SW was an extrovert
and he is an introvert. There are friends, a roommate, classmates, a teacher and former boss who have granted interviews about CW.

The powermower is not necessary for the little yard but maybe he bought it at a garage sale. It could have been a new or used gift from a friend otr family.

It could be that the Apple watches were a Christmas gift from family members. I hope that the data from the 2 watches help prosecutors figure out what really happened.

The Apple watch may have served like a Medic Alert for SW to call for emergency help if she felt ill.

 

[Thepoet]

I don’t think any of those things you listed are in question.

Where the discrepancy lies is between who the Prosecution says killed the girls and who the Defense says did it.

The question then is; what evidence does the defense have other than CW's accusation? IMO CW's behavior, from the minute SW died, is horrible and inexcusable.

 

[The Saint]

@Mrspratcher

“IIRC, the 65k salary was @ the time of filing the 2015 bankruptcy. We don't know what he was making at the time of the murders. I too would like to know what his salary/financial status was at the time of the murders”.

Financial details for 2016 and 2017 don’t appear to have surfaced yet, but numerous articles state that he was earning between $61,500 - $63,000 in 2015. Additional expenses since 2015 would obviously include childcare and increased medical expenses.

Documents reveal they sought Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection in July 2015, claiming liabilities that totaled $448,820. At the time, CW reported earning a monthly salary of around $5,400 from Anadarko Petroleum.

When they filed for bankruptcy, SW worked at Children’s Hospital Colorado, earning a monthly salary of $2,977. But for reasons not made clear in the filing, their reported combined income was tumbling — from $147,256 in fiscal year 2013, down to $90,789 in fiscal 2014, and then to $40,491 at the time of their 2015 filing.

In Colorado, a Chapter 7 filing, if approved by the court, allows debtors to hold onto and keep making payments on assets such as a house and car but offers a “fresh start” by eliminating other debts, according to ColoradoBankruptcy.com.

Their listed debts and some of their assets as at July 2015 are set out in the article. It was sad to learn that they valued little Dieter at $5. For me, a family pet is precious … $5!!!!!

https://people.com/crime/shanann-chris-watts-bankruptcy-filing-2015/

They said their nearly $3,000 mortgage and $600 in monthly car payments formed the bulk of their $4,900 in monthly expenses.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/16/christopher-watts-shanann-watts-filed-bankruptcy-2/\

The bankruptcy case was closed in October 2015.

Could the drop in SW's salary be that she was pregant with CeCe?
In one video, she said that she was so tired working 2 jobs. In another video, SW spoke of having to drive in snow at night to get to the Children's Hospital job.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Nothing new, why was CW held with no bond or bail?

1. The evidence against him for the crime was absolutely ironclad?
2. He is considered a flight risk?
3. He is considered a suicide risk?
4. Is he considered a danger to the community?
It is interesting that McDonald, who also killed his two daughters and pregnant wife, was out on bond. However, this crime was over 40 years ago.

I have done some Google searches, and none of them are mainstream media but mostly lawyer sites and other sites. But it appears that to protect the community and make sure he appears is number one. We know that family annihilators commit suicide 81% of the time. So perhaps that was something that judge considered? That it was necessary for him to appear and to protect the community.

Oh, and yes, he admitted to killing his child and wife. That might have something to do with it.

ETA, I just had a thought for @gitana1 to add to her list for what the defense might use as to why he did not do it. They might say 81% commit suicide and he did not commit suicide so therefore he did not do it. Pffft

ETA #2- An attempted suicide may actually help his case?

 

[Medstudies]

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them, the first time.” Maya Angelou

CW showed (and told us) that he has within him rage, and the ability to kill with no visible remorse. He has also shown us he is a liar.

Experience (and common sense) tells us to value a persons actions over their words. He killed. He cheated. He has told so many lies.

His self-serving words hold absolutely no value for me.

What I would need to believe his “words”? Show me the CCTV monitor video of her actively strangling the children.

 

[DexterMorgan]

You obviously have your mind made up.

But the truth is, even if there are marks on those little girls’ necks from long acrylic fingernails (for example), the Prosecution (and people who already have their theories set in stone, like you) will say he put them there.

If there already is so much irrefutable evidence that he did it, why would the autopsy results potentially alter the charges?

JMO

I just doubt CW would go through all of that trouble to save the honor of his wife. Jmo.

Its not like if your spouse committed suicide while naked and you simply put clothing on them before the emt people arrive, out of decency and spousal respect.

So he clearly didn't do all of this because SW supposedly killed the kids and he wanted to save her honor in the public eye. Jmo.

 

[MerryB]

The question then is; what evidence does the defense have other than CW's accusation? IMO CW's behavior, from the minute SW died, is horrible and inexcusable.

We just don’t know all of the evidence yet. Very little has been made public to date.

Many people feel they can firmly stand in the “guilty” camp based on what little we know (the fact that he admitted to killing his wife, disposing of their bodies, giving strange interviews afterward). I’m not discounting those things at all.

However, we don’t yet know the details of the autopsy report. We don’t know anything about prior Internet searches or lack thereof. We don’t know about prior texts or conversations between the couple. We don’t know anything about DNA findings or other findings in the home other than what LE has made public.

Some of us are reserving judgement until we know more. IMO it could go either way, depending on what the whole of the evidence shows.

JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

@NuttMegg

“The body adjusts to altitude, it's easy to measure in RBCs, etc, after a few months, and after a few days one usually feels fine up to reasonable elevations like 10,000' unless high blood pressure is present, best to get back down. Of course there is a limit to this, miners in Bolivia can work at about 15,000' or even more, but they have larger lung capacity. I doubt altitude would be a defense ever, but given how long he had lived at those relatively low elevations compared to so much of the rest of the world, I would wonder how that would be woven into a mass murder defense”.


I totally agree. Altitude would be the most ludicrous defence I’ve ever heard of. Frederick is less than 5,000’. They had been living there for years, he was running on a regular basis and didn’t do hard manual labour like that of a miner. Most people don’t notice much of a change until they reach 8,000-10,000’. I know a lot on this subject but TOS won’t allow me to go there, and IMO it’s too absurd to even contemplate.

 

[PommyMommy]

I'm wondering whether Shanann really wrote Chris' college paper about relationships. Maybe those were her thoughts about the danger of cheating with someone in the workplace and that a baby can sometimes help
a troubled marriage.

I wouldn't call CW a cut-out cardboard figure. SW was an extrovert
and he is an introvert. There are friends, a roommate, classmates, a teacher and former boss who have granted interviews about CW.

The powermower is not necessary for the little yard but maybe he bought it at a garage sale. It could have been a new or used gift from a friend otr family.

It could be that the Apple watches were a Christmas gift from family members. I hope that the data from the 2 watches help prosecutors figure out what really happened.

The only thing though, about his "friends," is that none of them who have granted interviews were close to him in recent years. The teacher knew him from high school and the classmate merely stayed in touch via Facebook. There hasn't been anyone who knew him recently who has spoken in his defense. Instead, those who knew him and spent time with him recently have said they don't believe his story.

At :26 in this video, he says, "We all have friends in North Carolina, we have friends here, we have friends everywhere."

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Where are all these friends that are "everywhere?" Why have none of them come to his defense?
MOO

 

[MerryB]

What I would need to believe his “words”? Show me the CCTV monitor video of her actively strangling the children.

SBM for brevity. Unfortunately, I don’t think you will get that, my friend. But I do think there will be loads of evidence to steer those of us who are undecided in one direction or another.
MOO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I just doubt CW would go through all of that trouble to save the honor of his wife. Jmo.

Its not like if your spouse committed suicide while naked and you simply put clothing on them before the emt people arrive, out of decency and spousal respect.

So he clearly didn't do all of this because SW supposedly killed the kids and he wanted to save her honor in the public eye. Jmo.

I can't get over the fact that he disposed of the girls' bodies in such a way as to TRY and destroy any forensic evidence. JMOO

 

[rainynights]

The only thing though, about his "friends," is that none of them who have granted interviews were close to him in recent years. The teacher knew him from high school and the classmate merely stayed in touch via Facebook. There hasn't been anyone who knew him recently who has spoken in his defense. Instead, those who knew him and spent time with him recently have said they don't believe his story.

At :26 in this video, he says, "We all have friends in North Carolina, we have friends here, we have friends everywhere."

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Where are all these friends that are "everywhere?" Why have none of them come to his defense?
MOO

Exactly. I speculate the "we have friends everywhere" to be the wide network of friends that SW acquired throughout her time with Thrive. Jmo

 

[mickey2942]

"Have a baby to improve a marriage."?!

Seriously? The worst time of our marriage was when we had a baby, and a toddler! I was always exhausted, he was tired. One kid was always crying, or both at the same time! We couldn't do the fun things we used to do before kids, like kayaking, skiing, ice skating, even hiking wasn't that fun, and forget mountain biking.

Having kids is great, but it definitely isn't a great idea for "improving" a marriage!

Maybe CW wasn't on board with this plan...sounds like he was ready to jump ship. Or couldn't manage all the stress.

 

[PommyMommy]

I can't get over the fact that he disposed of the girls' bodies in such a way as to TRY and destroy any forensic evidence. JMOO

And then called and texted his wife the next day (or so he claims). Huh? I can't wait to hear those voicemails if they exist, because supposedly she killed his children...and he killed her...and he's calling her...why? To cover his a$$ of course. Just like he concealed the bodies in the most despicable manner imaginable. It all screams consciousness of guilt.
MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

@NuttMegg

“The body adjusts to altitude, it's easy to measure in RBCs, etc, after a few months, and after a few days one usually feels fine up to reasonable elevations like 10,000' unless high blood pressure is present, best to get back down. Of course there is a limit to this, miners in Bolivia can work at about 15,000' or even more, but they have larger lung capacity. I doubt altitude would be a defense ever, but given how long he had lived at those relatively low elevations compared to so much of the rest of the world, I would wonder how that would be woven into a mass murder defense”.


I totally agree. Altitude would be the most ludicrous defence I’ve ever heard of. Frederick is less than 5,000’. They had been living there for years, he was running on a regular basis and didn’t do hard manual labour like that of a miner. Most people don’t notice much of a change until they reach 8,000-10,000’. I know a lot on this subject but TOS won’t allow me to go there, and IMO it’s too absurd to even contemplate.

I've had it a few times, medium cases at 15k, it's no fun, but you stick it out if the reward is great, usually it's gone in a day or two. So I can assure ppl that the LAST things a person suffering from altitude sickness would do are 1) voluntarily get up off the bed 2) violently murder people and energetically strew their bodies in oil tanks after lifting heavy weights on ladders and digging graves in hard, nearly "cemented" earth. Anyway a person acclimatizes or not, there's no way CW apologists could claim that he was a murderer because he lived at what few people would even consider a "high altitude".

 

[gitana1]

The threads keep changing faster and faster!

Glad to see we’re getting *some* kind of movement on the autopsy reports...

On that issue - I would NOT read into anything regarding the relationship between the autopsy report and the initial charges. I would not have expected anything to change, one way or another.

The autopsy reports will contain some pertinent details to demonstrate the manner/cause of death and *maybe* (hopefully?) even some details that would either point toward - or away from - a particular person being the killer.

Remember, the autopsy reports are just one piece of the puzzle. While it would be great if the report could definitively prove who killed the girls, that’s just not how it works.

I would expect the charges to remain the same, as initially filed.

But what happened to all the conjecture about how the state was asking the reports to be sealed because they didn't support the charges and thus SW's family was in town so the prosecution could gently break the news to them that the charges would be reduced or dismissed?

And what about the statement that the state requested the report be sealed because it needed time to develop new theories or investigate new angles due to unexpected findings in the report, even though the defense gets the report at essentially the same time?

Or did I have that wrong?

 

[JudgeJudi]

@Tippy Lynn

“If I could ask CW 3 questions that could only be answered truthfully I would ask:

Who killed the girls?

Why did you dump your daughters bodies into the oil tanks?

What was the reason for the 4am emotional conversation?


What would you ask?”


Quite frankly, I wouldn’t ask him anything. He’d only lie as he’s done before repeatedly. His concern is only for himself. I’m not interested in why or what because nothing can bring back SW and Nico or the babies he so heinously murdered. I just want the prosecutor to do his job and see that he’s imprisoned for the rest of his life.