Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Best of What's Around]

This is my specialty. I’m a dispatcher.

As fast as humanly possible. Lights and sirens. Meanwhile the dispatcher would be giving CPR instructions.

Multiple ambulances most likely, along with police, would be dispatched immediately.

Thank you! The irony of tonight's threads reminds me that CW has people earnestly trying not to accuse him without a full trial, yet he by his own admission and story played doctor with his children's lives, judge/jury/executioner with his wife, and took over the job of police and society at large when he hid the bodies and sent good, honest, worried people out frantically looking for his family. And that is if you actually believe him. Oh, the irony!

 

[Tigerlily75]

So you’re saying that you wouldn’t advise doing nothing, and dumping your children’s bodies in crude oil?

No....!!

We’ve had these kinds of events before, where one partner is harming the children and the other calls 911 (000 here). Thankfully not exactly an everyday occurrence, but when they do occur those jobs stay with you forever.

No one ever does what he did!

 

[mtnlites]

This is my specialty. I’m a dispatcher.

As fast as humanly possible. Lights and sirens. Meanwhile the dispatcher would be giving CPR instructions.

Multiple ambulances most likely, along with police, would be dispatched immediately.

We live 20 minutes from town and the paramedics were at our house in fewer than 10 minutes. I imagine that, in a place like Frederick, it would've been super fast. And yes, I can confirm that the dispatcher would be instructing the caller on performing CPR and anything else that might be helpful. That was my experience as well.

 

[MassGuy]

No....!!

We’ve had these kinds of events before, where one partner is harming the children and the other calls 911 (000 here). Thankfully not exactly an everyday occurrence, but when they do occur those jobs stay with you forever.

No one ever does what he did!

And that’s precisely the point. “No one ever does what he did.”

Unless he killed them, of course.

 

[mtnlites]

If you put 100 parents in that position, and none of them are named CW, all of them call 911.

It is human instinct to protect your children.

A loving parent doesn’t let his children die and instead, commit an act of unspeakable selfishness.

If he’s telling the truth, he deserves life in prison. If he’s lying (he is), he deserves the death penalty.

IMO, a loving parent doesn't just assume their child is dead and think, eh, they're already gone and there's no hope left so I may as well get rid of their body. You pretty much continue revival procedures until someone physically pulls you off or a doctor tells you it's too late. And even then a part of you thinks maybe the child will still be okay. Mine was starting to go into rigor and I still called 911 and continued to do CPR until they arrived.

 

[molly1255]

I don’t think anyone expects him to just watch her killing the kids while he’s busy on the phone with 911. Push her off, knock her out and call 911 while trying to save your child. It is said they had a panic button on their alarm. Hit that button. It takes two seconds.

ETA: And yes I do expect him to lie and hide bodies if he’s just committed a triple murder. But someone who saw their kids being murdered by someone else wouldn’t do that.

One thing from his story that probably bothers me the most is that he said he looked at the baby monitor and saw all of the mayhem, and his reaction was rage.

It seems to me that his story has a very strong insinuation that SW was reacting to his stated desire to separate, and she didn't want that, and she was either so desperate at the thought of losing him, or was so enraged at the thought of it that her immediate reaction was to strangle her own little daughters?

My thoughts are, his reaction would have been extreme panic at seeing this, not rage. IMO, he would have rushed in, in a state of extreme panic, and done everything he could to try to mitigate the damage.

Doesn't the very "core" of his story make him the impetus behind SW's extreme reaction? Why would his reaction be rage at SW? I do think he was in a rage that night. But not for the reasons he is willing to admit.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I posted something earlier that was removed which suggested that the public at large finds a bevy of improbable characters (including family annihilators) charged with crimes as sympathetic victims, and that gender and ethnicity may play a role that curries unwarranted sympathy and/or willingness to ensure fair, unbiased treatment. It was perceived as “male bashing & racist” but I cannot recall any case where a woman or minority has been charged with the murder of their spouse & toddlers deaths, but generated love letters and fan mail in spite of that.

I realize that we must operate under the assumption that we are all free and equal and receive equal treatment in kind , but it doesn’t always work that way.

IMO the Chris Watts’ fan clubs are getting national attention not only due to AB but because she can actually cite them. What is the name for women (or men) who get on that bandwagon? Or is it a problem that must remain “the problem with no name”....as Betty Friedan coined in “The Feminine Mystique” 60 + years ago?

This case makes me think that the women’s movement never even happened when it comes to victim blaming and the reasons it is permissible, and the reasons that CW continues to be given the benefit of the doubt and treated gingerly. There may be a remote possibility that his claim that his wife killed their children is accurate , but it is also his last chance at not going away forever, and seems IMO like a last ditch effort to save himself, while at the same time throwing his victim under the bus. It’s the only way he can come off as not seeming like a total heel, though nothing in his story adds up. Yet women are writing him love letters on top of everything?

Innocent until proven guilty even when his dishonest pleas for his family’s return to the press and the way he had disposed of them is paramount. His actions and words have given the most neutral bystanders chills. What could possibly be more of a stretch after his plea for them to “come home” than his “I am reading the Bible” shenanigans.

IMO there will be more pro-CW factions to come and I think that the defense is going to have a following-and we won’t be able to coin what that even is. It seems like another “problem with no name” to me-MOO.

I think you make some excellent points, and they are very relevant. Ironically, CW, the beneficiary of some of this built-in societal bias (as a white, good looking male in a well to do neighborhood), might just turn out to find some of that bias coming at him the wrong way if the affairs with men turn out to be true (homophobia). I wonder to what extent the forces that work in his favor now might flow against him in that case. It isn't fair, but sadly, it is the way it is right now. Thank you for pointing out these tendencies. Without that, we don't have a chance to change things.

 

[human]

I don’t care if it was 5 minutes or 20, when the lives of your children are on the line, you call 911. How long it takes them to arrive in that situation, there is no way of knowing.

If his story were true, they could potentially have been saved. Of course his story is a pure fabrication.

If a child is strangled by an adult, would there be massive damage to the throat area?

 

[MassGuy]

If a child is strangled by an adult, would there be massive damage to the throat area?

Broken hyoid most likely.

But them being savable or not, is beside the point. Those kids could have been hours beyond saving, and it shouldn’t have mattered one bit. You call 911.

It’s not the reality that’s the problem, it’s what his actions tell us about his culpability. His complete guilt.

 

[human]

I posted something earlier that was removed which suggested that the public at large finds a bevy of improbable characters (including family annihilators) charged with crimes as sympathetic victims, and that gender and ethnicity may play a role that curries unwarranted sympathy and/or willingness to ensure fair, unbiased treatment. It was perceived as “male bashing & racist” but I cannot recall any case where a woman or minority has been charged with the murder of their spouse & toddlers deaths, but generated love letters and fan mail in spite of that.

I realize that we must operate under the assumption that we are all free and equal and receive equal treatment in kind , but it doesn’t always work that way.

IMO the Chris Watts’ fan clubs are getting national attention not only due to AB but because she can actually cite them. What is the name for women (or men) who get on that bandwagon? Or is it a problem that must remain “the problem with no name”....as Betty Friedan coined in “The Feminine Mystique” 60 + years ago?

This case makes me think that the women’s movement never even happened when it comes to victim blaming and the reasons it is permissible, and the reasons that CW continues to be given the benefit of the doubt and treated gingerly. There may be a remote possibility that his claim that his wife killed their children is accurate , but it is also his last chance at not going away forever, and seems IMO like a last ditch effort to save himself, while at the same time throwing his victim under the bus. It’s the only way he can come off as not seeming like a total heel, though nothing in his story adds up. Yet women are writing him love letters on top of everything?

Innocent until proven guilty even when his dishonest pleas for his family’s return to the press and the way he had disposed of them is paramount. His actions and words have given the most neutral bystanders chills. What could possibly be more of a stretch after his plea for them to “come home” than his “I am reading the Bible” shenanigans.

IMO there will be more pro-CW factions to come and I think that the defense is going to have a following-and we won’t be able to coin what that even is. It seems like another “problem with no name” to me-MOO.

Casey Anthony had plenty of men who helped her. Jodi Arias has men admirers. Does Susan Smith? Cannot remember. I imagine if one would search out women killers, admirers would be found.

 

[esayer]

One thing from his story that probably bothers me the most is that he said he looked at the baby monitor and saw all of the mayhem, and his reaction was rage.

It seems to me that his story has a very strong insinuation that SW was reacting to his stated desire to separate, and she didn't want that, and she was either so desperate at the thought of losing him, or was so enraged at the thought of it that her immediate reaction was to strangle her own little daughters?

My thoughts are, his reaction would have been extreme panic at seeing this, not rage. IMO, he would have rushed in, in a state of extreme panic, and done everything he could to try to mitigate the damage.

Doesn't the very "core" of his story make him the impetus behind SW's extreme reaction? Why would his reaction be rage at SW? I do think he was in a rage that night. But not for the reasons he is willing to admit.

Yes he gives himself WAY too much credit: My wife was so mad I wanted to separate she killed the kids! Yeah right. Nice try.

 

[human]

One thing from his story that probably bothers me the most is that he said he looked at the baby monitor and saw all of the mayhem, and his reaction was rage.

It seems to me that his story has a very strong insinuation that SW was reacting to his stated desire to separate, and she didn't want that, and she was either so desperate at the thought of losing him, or was so enraged at the thought of it that her immediate reaction was to strangle her own little daughters?

My thoughts are, his reaction would have been extreme panic at seeing this, not rage. IMO, he would have rushed in, in a state of extreme panic, and done everything he could to try to mitigate the damage.

Doesn't the very "core" of his story make him the impetus behind SW's extreme reaction? Why would his reaction be rage at SW? I do think he was in a rage that night. But not for the reasons he is willing to admit.

I am sure baby monitors have improved since my grandkids were babies. ( 8 years ago).

I was a wreck watching them. I would look on the monitor and I could not tell a thing on it. It was not color.

I would have to physically go check them.

 

[human]

Broken hyoid most likely.

But them being savable or not, is beside the point. Those kids could have been hours beyond saving, and it shouldn’t have mattered one bit. You call 911.

It’s not the reality that’s the problem, it’s what his actions tell us about his culpability. His complete guilt.

Of course as a parent or really any caring adult, you would keep doing what you can. But the reality is that often nothing would work. For my job, every year we had to be trained in First Aid and CPR. The methods changed. I believe now you give chest compressions only. No rescue breathing.

It was terrifying . The responsiblity . Never had to use it in thirty years nor the epi pen either, thank goodness.

The reality was that even heroic measures were not necessarily going to work. That was the scary thing about it all. That is why I watched my students like a hawk. The responsiblity is heavy.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

Thank you! The irony of tonight's threads reminds me that CW has people earnestly trying not to accuse him without a full trial, yet he by his own admission and story played doctor with his children's lives, judge/jury/executioner with his wife, and took over the job of police and society at large when he hid the bodies and sent good, honest, worried people out frantically looking for his family. And that is if you actually believe him. Oh, the irony!

BBM
Just think if NUA hadn't contacted LE , he might have been able to follow through on his original plan to abandon SW's car and claim she just took the girls and left everything behind to punish him for wanting out of their marriage.

All of their family, friends and even strangers would STILL be looking for his family, everyone except him. Her parents and his parents, spending all their time and retirement nest eggs frantically looking for their grandchildren, worrying themselves into early graves.

And while everyone else was worried sick and looking about his missing family, he would have put his house on the market ASAP to collect that $100K tax free gain and maybe pocket big payout from GoFundMe that he could have set up to search for his missing family. Most of all he would be free to live his life without any parental responsibilities or having to deal with Shanann regarding his children. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

BBM
Just think if NUA hadn't contacted LE , he might have been able to follow through on his original plan to abandon SW's car and claim she just took the girls and left everything behind to punish him for wanting out of their marriage.

All of their family, friends and even strangers would STILL be looking for his family, everyone except him. Her parents and his parents, spending all their time and retirement nest eggs frantically looking for their grandchildren, worrying themselves into early graves.

And while everyone else was worried sick and looking about his missing family, he would have put his house on the market ASAP to collect that $100K tax free gain and maybe pocket big payout from GoFundMe that he could have set up to search for his missing family. Most of all he would be free to live his life without any parental responsibilities or having to deal with Shanann regarding his children. MOO

I disagree. I think that even if everything had gone according to plan, he still would have been found out.

His work vehicle likely had GPS, which is how they may have found the dumpsite in the first place.

His neighbor still had video footage of the comings and goings at the Watts house.

Cell phone records, technology at his workplace (surveillance), mistresses, computer records, all would have worked against him.

He may have gotten away with it for longer, but I highly doubt he would have gotten away with it entirely.

 

[human]

BBM
Just think if NUA hadn't contacted LE , he might have been able to follow through on his original plan to abandon SW's car and claim she just took the girls and left everything behind to punish him for wanting out of their marriage.

All of their family, friends and even strangers would STILL be looking for his family, everyone except him. Her parents and his parents, spending all their time and retirement nest eggs frantically looking for their grandchildren, worrying themselves into early graves.

And while everyone else was worried sick and looking about his missing family, he would have put his house on the market ASAP to collect that $100K tax free gain and maybe pocket big payout from GoFundMe that he could have set up to search for his missing family. Most of all he would be free to live his life without any parental responsibilities or having to deal with Shanann regarding his children. MOO

How would he have got the car out of the garage? Wear some kind of disguise so he looked like her?

 

[Deleted member 182072]

I disagree. I think that even if everything had gone according to plan, he still would have been found out.

His work vehicle likely had GPS, which is how they may have found the dumpsite in the first place.

His neighbor still had video footage of the comings and goings at the Watts house.

Cell phone records, technology at his workplace (surveillance), mistresses, computer records, all would have worked against him.

He may have gotten away with it for longer, but I highly doubt he would have gotten away with it entirely.

I completely agree that he would have been caught regardless but that's how things would have happened if everything went his way. JMO

 

[Serena Angelique]

I think you make some excellent points, and they are very relevant. Ironically, CW, the beneficiary of some of this built-in societal bias (as a white, good looking male in a well to do neighborhood), might just turn out to find some of that bias coming at him the wrong way if the affairs with men turn out to be true (homophobia). I wonder to what extent the forces that work in his favor now might flow against him in that case. It isn't fair, but sadly, it is the way it is right now. Thank you for pointing out these tendencies. Without that, we don't have a chance to change things.

What woman accused of these crimes would be receiving love letters in jail after likely killing her kids?

We know of women (Susan Smith immediately comes to mind) who did the unthinkable and were charged with the crime they committed and lied about it. They were not given the same reception after being charged.

What makes CW more sympathetic to some people? Because he was still married and he could place his wife at the scene and in the 3.5 short hours she was home, she COULD have potentially by virtue of her presence, killed her kids when she gave no signs of being capable of it?

If anything, in everything I’ve seen from her videos she was adamant to protect them at all costs, even though I know this is subjective and being used against her too. I just don’t see it.

This case IMO, excludes common sense when the man charged is vehemently defended, when what HAS been established is undeniably criminal (dumping kids in oil tanks alone), and the evidence that has been irrefutably presented is dismissed only because CW changed his story yet again.

If we must try to give CW the benefit of the doubt because HE SAYS SO - I can only wonder what makes people so amenable to his version of events over how and why he did this (which I feel we will never discover because we can’t trust him and he is the last man standing ). His version in the affidavit hardly seems like an honest confession IMO and it came a day late and tons of dollars short!

Yet he continues to be lent credence and in some circles- even adoration. I don’t think that we can refute that CW has a following which is gaining momentum when it is reported, (by AB) even on a slow day.

 

[cailleach]

This interests me in terms of the eventual trial. Not long ago it was agreed that the Kara Kopetsky/Jessica Runions jury will come from suburban St Louis as opposed to the greater Kansas City area - so other side of the state. I don’t think this helps their murderer at all, but okay. If CW goes to trial, can they get the jury from the area or do they go elsewhere?

They can get a jury but the venire (jury pool) will be large. Weld County, 19th District, is the third largest in Colorado. I doubt we'll see a request for a venue. (Trivia: Interestingly, at least to some, the fourth floor of the courthouse in Greeley was initially built to house juries. The courthouse is actually quite stately, built in the Beaux-Arts style. See here: Google Maps: Report Inappropriate Image )

 

[DexterMorgan]

I can't believe he dug a grave that quickly. That dirt is not soft at all.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

How would he have got the car out of the garage? Wear some kind of disguise so he looked like her?

I think he would have waited until it was dark and no one could see who was driving, then abandon her car. He could have gotten back home by using another car/motorcycle/bicycle he had in place and then go back inside through the backyard. The neighbor's camera would actually have backed up his story about leaving for work and coming home at the normal times in his truck. MOO