Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Thepoet]

Yeah the defense has an uphill battle. But they're doing what they're supposed to. The defense are used to losing motions, BTW. It doesn't indicate they're doing a bad job. It indicates they have a hard battle. And it's about due diligence and making sure they try to preserve all their client's rights and make the state prove its case.

The state doesn't have to disclose proposed testimony except of experts. They do have to disclose any recorded surveillance, like recorded calls between a witness and a suspect, and police reports, which would often include witness statements, and anything that could be seen as "exculpatory" evidence, including witness statements.

https://www.hmichaelsteinberg.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Colorado-Rules-Of-Criminal-Procedure.pdf

Thanks so much.

 

[Nudgee]

Well, you're right. It's not truly a leak because there's no gag order. The defense is allowed to discuss what they want to.

However, I fully believe the "source" was someone on the defense team. They are quite motivated to paint their client as a holy family man who spends his time staring at his dead family and reading the bible.

I don't believe any of it (at the least if he's doing so it's to make an impression) and I don't think any fellow prisoner or any prison staff would care to contact the media.

This is straight defense PR in my opinion. Timed perfectly to coincide with their motion response and to cushion the effects the release of the autopsy will have.

@gitana1 .... I'm not going to guess who is leaking anything..... what I do think long and hard about are the families of the DA's & PD's ..... I could not even imagine living with my spouse if they couldn't talk when they came home....i think about their families daily, and how their family lives may have been totally changed over this case! I hope the best for all of them!

 

[Natusry]

If the defense is responsible for attempting to vilify SW with the rumors and videos on sm, it WAS a suicidal mission. I never thought about the fact that it removes the element of surprise and allows the prosecution to plan how to address it.
My main beef with how they’re presenting SW is that it makes CW version of events even less likely. All of the sudden, he can stand up to this powerful, dominating woman that has emasculated him for so long and boldly tell her he wants a separation? And their discussion is merely “emotional”until he finds her strangling the kids?
Rubbish.
It points more to the fact that he was scared of her and was convinced his only way out of the marriage was to annihilate his family. He saw no other out.
Bad defense, imo. He just made the case for the prosecution while also shaming the victim.

 

[MassGuy]

If the defense is responsible for attempting to vilify SW with the rumors and videos on sm, it WAS a suicidal mission. I never thought about the fact that it removes the element of surprise and allows the prosecution to plan how to address it.
My main beef with how they’re presenting SW is that it makes CW version of events even less likely. All of the sudden, he can stand up to this powerful, dominating woman that has emasculated him for so long and boldly tell her he wants a separation? And their discussion is merely “emotional”until he finds her strangling the kids?
Rubbish.
It points more to the fact that he was scared of her and was convinced his only way out of the marriage was to annihilate his family. He saw no other out.
Bad defense, imo. He just made the case for the prosecution while also shaming the victim.

They’ve been handed a losing case. I think they’re doing all they can here, and playing the best hand they have.

It will fail, but they have to try. It’s messy business, but a necessary one.

 

[gitana1]

Please know that I hold your opinion in the highest regard, and I fully admit that I’m an amateur, but when I see an insulting motions from the Defense insinuating that the Coroners Office would be so incompetent that they wouldn't think to take a DNA swab from a child’s neck when there is uncertainty as to who strangled her, or to accuse the Prosecution of deliberately withholding the Autopsy reports when they haven’t even received them seems frivolous to me. I apologize for offending you.

Nope. I'm not offended. I think it looks different depending on whether you're an attorney or not, maybe.

The motion asking to swab the kids' necks is due diligence. Not an accusation of incompetence. And there have been issues with coroners before. Just remember, this is a possible death penalty case.

The insinuation that the reports had been withheld is not without basis. It can be super hard to get stuff from the state, despite the rules. They had indications that suggested the state had info from the report. We know now that's not true but it is very likely that the state had preliminary info and findings that the defense was not privy to.

This is a high stakes "game". The death penalty may be involved.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Innocent men don’t pretend they don’t know where their dead family is. Innocent men don’t ignore their dead children without at least trying to save them. Innocent men don’t hide the bodies of a murder that someone else committed. Innocent men don’t destroy evidence that could prove they are innocent. Innocent men don’t make another murderers crime look like their own. It’s absurd.

I, for one, cannot ignore all of that in case *maybe* there’s something horrible we don’t know yet about SW. Finding out something about SW isnt going to erase what I already know about CW. If that makes me bias then I guess I am. I’ve added up all of the information and it’s very clear to me he’s guilty of all crimes. I’m going to need some pretty hardcore proof to change my mind. I have zero empathy for him and think he’s a disgusting human. If it’s proven she’s the killer then I will think the same of her. I just don’t think there were two murderers in that house that night.

He's not innocent. He confessed to killing his pregnant wife.

 

[Shekkiec]

Imo the prosecution did say that they acknowledge some leaks came from within the the law enforcement agency but felt the process of finding the leaks would be costly and involve too many people to be investigated. They claim some of the information came from the unsealed affadavit , which the defense had thought would possibly taint jurors and filed the motion for on 8/20 and was denied . The prosecution filed to seal autopsy imo after they had most likely all ready interviewed every one of their witnesses and potential jurors had most likely come in contact with information leaks . What possibly now after so much information and inuendo could the prosecution try to save ? Imo it may be damning against them . It is not the defense wanting it sealed, they have asked Protection if leaks and information from the start. The prosecution imo may have acted carelessly by not sealing the facts and not taking precautions within their LE community to keep leaks from happening. When CW was arrested the headlines were he confessed to all the murders ! This came 2 officers from within LE . It was false. Imo at that moment the world heard from law enforcement C.W. confessed the damage was done bc everyone assumed he was guilty Chris Watts’ attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the press
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...T OF ARREST WARRANT FOR CHRISTOPHER WATTS.pdf
Report: Man with NC ties confesses to killing wife, 2 daughters in Colorado

 

[Best of What's Around]

He can tell "his truth" until the cows come home.
Without evidence to back it up is is just another story he is telling.
How many versions of the truth did he tell prior to settling on that one?
Is there anything that corroborates his story?
Any single little thing?
Evidence and actions speak louder than the words of proven liar.
That is the determining factor for me on whether I am willing to listen.
Show me the evidence and I'll fairly consider it.
So far, that evidence doesn't exist and a mountain of evidence controverting his "true story" has been presented.
I don't have to give a confessed liar, confessed adulterer and confessed murderer the benefit of the doubt that, despite all the evidence existing to the contrary, maybe he is telling the truth on this one unbelievable thing (SW killing the girls).
If I'm wrong then there is very little difference in how I will view him-- a dangerous man who murdered his wife and unborn son in an uncontrollable rage and made no effort to try to save his daughters does not belong in society IMO. He didn't stop it and he didn't make any attempt to rescue them. He wasn't helpless or weaker than her or so stupid he didn't know to call 911 when a child is blue. If he is telling the truth, he is not much better than the cold calculating man I believe him to be, who laid in wait to murder his whole family so he could be free of them.
If SW murdered the girls first it doesn't change CW's level of despicably in my book.
It doesn't make him sympathetic at all, because of what he did in response.
So I'd rather error on the side of believing the victims are true victims of CW and he is just trying to get off on a lesser charge by blaming SW.
MOO.

Looking for my 1,000 likes button here...Thank you! So well put.

 

[Natusry]

I certainly wouldn’t want the case. They are doing their best. But, their best will probably come in the form of a plea bargain.

 

[Jennifer17]

Imo the prosecution did say that they acknowledge some leaks came from within the the law enforcement agency but felt the process of finding the leaks would be costly and involve too many people to be investigated. They claim some of the information came from the unsealed affadavit , which the defense had thought would possibly taint jurors and filed the motion for on 8/20 and was denied . The prosecution filed to seal autopsy imo after they had most likely all ready interviewed every one of their witnesses and potential jurors had most likely come in contact with information leaks . What possibly now after so much information and inuendo could the prosecution try to save ? Imo it may be damning against them . It is not the defense wanting it sealed, they have asked Protection if leaks and information from the start. The prosecution imo may have acted carelessly by not sealing the facts and not taking precautions within their LE community to keep leaks from happening. When CW was arrested the headlines were he confessed to all the murders ! This came 2 officers from within LE . It was false. Imo at that moment the world heard from law enforcement C.W. confessed the damage was done bc everyone assumed he was guilty Chris Watts’ attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the press
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/MOTION TO SEAL APPLICATION AND AFFIDAVIT IN SUPPORT OF ARREST WARRANT FOR CHRISTOPHER WATTS.pdf
Report: Man with NC ties confesses to killing wife, 2 daughters in Colorado

BBM. We do not know what was in his first confession.

 

[MassGuy]

He's not innocent. He confessed to killing his pregnant wife.

I agree. He’s only confessed to killing his wife and unborn child.

I’ve said this before, but hypothetically if he were telling the truth, he deserves a life sentence for that and what he did to his kid’s bodies.

Of course he’s lying, and deserves the death penalty.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I agree. He’s only confessed to killing his wife and unborn child.

I’ve said this before, but hypothetically if he were telling the truth, he deserves a life sentence for that and what he did to his kid’s bodies.

Of course he’s lying, and deserves the death penalty.

Lock him up and throw away the keys.

 

[kkdj]

I agree. He’s only confessed to killing his wife and unborn child.

I’ve said this before, but hypothetically if he were telling the truth, he deserves a life sentence for that and what he did to his kid’s bodies.

Of course he’s lying, and deserves the death penalty.

I honestly can't imagine anyone thinking otherwise. IMO it's just plain obvious. Who wouldn't do everything and anything they could think of to save their children? He apparently just took them and put them in oil containers to hide them and then made up stories.

 

[gitana1]

If the defense is responsible for attempting to vilify SW with the rumors and videos on sm, it WAS a suicidal mission. I never thought about the fact that it removes the element of surprise and allows the prosecution to plan how to address it.
My main beef with how they’re presenting SW is that it makes CW version of events even less likely. All of the sudden, he can stand up to this powerful, dominating woman that has emasculated him for so long and boldly tell her he wants a separation? And their discussion is merely “emotional”until he finds her strangling the kids?
Rubbish.
It points more to the fact that he was scared of her and was convinced his only way out of the marriage was to annihilate his family. He saw no other out.
Bad defense, imo. He just made the case for the prosecution while also shaming the victim.

Yeah. At first I thought it was smart but nasty tactic. Now in retrospect I realize what a catastrophic mistake it was as it really took away the element of surprise that these types of allegations benefit from. Looking at that and the way the defense have litigated thus far, I'm changing my mind.

How long will it take to get to trial? Could be years! In that time they're going to be pouring over both of their medical and psych records, the kids records, talking to teachers, co-workers, friends, employers, daycare workers and babysitters, going over calls for service to the home, if any, legal documents, and on and on.

Some stuff that CW or those who support him feel will be relevant and game changing likely will not be at all. They can say nasty things in opening but while the court usually gives leeway to the defense on such things, some nonsense will likely not be admissible at all and not be allowed to come in.

And now, the state has all the time in the world to counter the nasty innuendo and gossip with the facts which I believe show a stable, hard working and devoted parent - her health care records, the fact that her husband left her alone with the the kids repeatedly, her work, friends and sitters and business associates who saw her on a regular basis and interacted with her, etc. It all shows functionality and stability.

They're going to need big stuff to show she flew into a rage and murdered her kids in that manner. Super big. And not even stuff like, "Yes, I was suicidal for a bit after my diagnosis 8 years ago" or whatever.

I think they will need stuff like threats to do CW or the kids harm, in writing or audio recordings. Multiple and recent calls for service at the house because she was acting insane, or hospitalizations. Statements by her to a therapist or clergy that she is feeling obsessive and her expressed fears about what she might do if he tries to leave or take her kids.

Stuff we have seen in female family annihilator cases.

I'm pretty sure I've heard all the gossip floating around out there. I think most of it is silly and some of it is born of desperate hope. I haven't heard anything that I find one bit persuasive that she could've harmed her kids.

And the state now has all the time in the world to show how stable and normal and loving she was.

Massive, incredible error.

It made me so disgusted and angry at first. Now I am ecstatic.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Imo the prosecution did say that they acknowledge some leaks came from within the the law enforcement agency but felt the process of finding the leaks would be costly and involve too many people to be investigated. They claim some of the information came from the unsealed affadavit , which the defense had thought would possibly taint jurors and filed the motion for on 8/20 and was denied . The prosecution filed to seal autopsy imo after they had most likely all ready interviewed every one of their witnesses and potential jurors had most likely come in contact with information leaks . What possibly now after so much information and inuendo could the prosecution try to save ? Imo it may be damning against them . It is not the defense wanting it sealed, they have asked Protection if leaks and information from the start. The prosecution imo may have acted carelessly by not sealing the facts and not taking precautions within their LE community to keep leaks from happening. When CW was arrested the headlines were he confessed to all the murders ! This came 2 officers from within LE . It was false. Imo at that moment the world heard from law enforcement C.W. confessed the damage was done bc everyone assumed he was guilty Chris Watts’ attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the press
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/MOTION TO SEAL APPLICATION AND AFFIDAVIT IN SUPPORT OF ARREST WARRANT FOR CHRISTOPHER WATTS.pdf
Report: Man with NC ties confesses to killing wife, 2 daughters in Colorado

There is no evidence the Prosecution (nor the Defense for that matter) has acted carelessly. Leaks always happen. In fact, I think it could be said there have been less leaks here than in a lot of high profile cases, IMO.

 

[Best of What's Around]

BBM. We do not know what was in his first confession.

Yes, and the report was not that it was officers. Just an LE source. @Shekkiec - please post the link for this (where you said "When CW was arrested the headlines were he confessed to all the murders ! This came 2 officers from within LE . It was false.") Thank you.

 

[nwmouse]

Lock him up and throw away the keys.

Now you're talking!

 

[Amandaaa]

Yeah. At first I thought it was smart but nasty tactic. Now in retrospect I realize what a catastrophic mistake it was as it really took away the element of surprise that these types of allegations benefit from. Looking at that and the way the defense have litigated thus far, I'm changing my mind.

How long will it take to get to trial? Could be years! In that time they're going to be pouring over both of their medical and psych records, the kids records, talking to teachers, co-workers, friends, employers, daycare workers and babysitters, going over calls for service to the home, if any, legal documents, and on and on.

Some stuff that CW or those who support him feel will be relevant and game changing likely will not be at all. They can say nasty things in opening but while the court usually gives leeway to the defense on such things, some nonsense will likely not be admissible at all and not be allowed to come in.

And now, the state has all the time in the world to counter the nasty innuendo and gossip with the facts which I believe show a stable, hard working and devoted parent - her health care records, the fact that her husband left her alone with the the kids repeatedly, her work, friends and sitters and business associates who saw her on a regular basis and interacted with her, etc. It all shows functionality and stability.

They're going to need big stuff to show she flew into a rage and murdered her kids in that manner. Super big. And not even stuff like, "Yes, I was suicidal for a bit after my diagnosis 8 years ago" or whatever.

I think they will need stuff like threats to do CW or the kids harm, in writing or audio recordings. Multiple and recent calls for service at the house because she was acting insane, or hospitalizations. Statements by her to a therapist or clergy that she is feeling obsessive and her expressed fears about what she might do if he tries to leave or take her kids.

Stuff we have seen in female family annihilator cases.

I'm pretty sure I've heard all the gossip floating around out there. I think most of it is silly and some of it is born of desperate hope. I haven't heard anything that I find one bit persuasive that she could've harmed her kids.

And the state now has all the time in the world to show how stable and normal and loving she was.

Massive, incredible error.

It made me so disgusted and angry at first. Now I am ecstatic.

Are you totally sold on this as being the defense’s tactic? Based on what I’ve seen from them so far, I have to think they’re smarter than that... social media usage (in cases) is so commonplace now - and the element of surprise is the critical component. I would be incredibly surprised if they’d made such a rookie mistake by highlighting it up front.

I think it’s all just been brought to the forefront by armchair critics with nothing better to do.

What makes you think it’s the defense?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Now you're talking!

I didn't really mean it

 

[Anicole]

<modsnip - removed quoted post>

I have got the impression from reading many posts from many members here that they have given attention to other possibilities and simply can't find anything to really support other possibilities, yet they find a lot to support that CW killed them all.

BBM

Innocent people call the police. Innocent people don't hide bodies.

Even claiming self defense, you don't hide bodies.