Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[dixiegirl1035]

Ashleigh didn't call it strange, but she did briefly discuss it on yesterday's show (apologies if you were already aware - I wasn't sure.)
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

AB 10/09/18
1. CW has photo of SW. BW, and C.W. in his cell as well as a Bible. Is it for show, was he advised by the Defense to display these items in his cell, so he’d look good? Or is CW a man who is deep in mourning? We don’t know what he’s thinking. Scott Peterson had Laci’s photo in his cell. OJ had a picture of Nicole in his cell. There could be an innocent explanation. Prisoners can get permission to have pictures of loved ones in their cells. It’s very common for prisoners to have religious materials in jail. If he’s on Close Watch Protocol he’s not supposed to have reading material in his room.That may have changed, nobody knows. The Weld County Jail has a Public Information Officer who has never once returned a call to AB.

Thank you so very much Layla for doing all the summaries for each of her shows, and I missed that summary! Appreciate you adding the link to this post Pommy.

 

[kkdj]

There is no explanation for his actions, and I am sure he killed the kids.

But lack of solid evidence, or one hung jury member could be enough to scramble all of it.

However, in the most liberal California, SP got life for killing LP and Conner P. I don't expect less in CO.

I sure hope you're correct. I have seen an absent of charges brought on cases where it was obvious who did it but the prosecution didn't feel they had enough solid evidence to secure a conviction. We don't know what all the evidence is in this case and they have brought charges for murdering all 4. I just hope it sticks.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I wonder when this will be resolved?
Potential release of Christopher Watts case autopsies is focus of conflicting arguments

 

[gitana1]

IIRC, you were able to get your hands on the actual hard drive information and found out things that the prosecution never did. (And then info was in book)

Wish we could get the hard drive and phone information in this case to go through.

That was AZLawyer!

 

[ZsaZsa]

There is no explanation for his actions, and I am sure he killed the kids.

But lack of solid evidence, or one hung jury member could be enough to scramble all of it.

However, in the most liberal California, SP got life for killing LP and Conner P. I don't expect less in CO.

Justice for the girls would also mean exonerating SW, so it needs to be done.

Death sentences are almost never carried out, so in reality it would be life without parole.

I think SP got the death sentence, didn't he?
I think CW should get it too....

 

[Charlot123]

I think DP got the death sentence, didn't he?
I think CW should get it too....

Death sentence in reality means life in jail till he dies.

And I am against torturing those convicted to death by keeping them in inhuman conditions or subjecting to abuse by other prisoners.
Lack of freedom, forever, is bad enough.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

That was AZLawyer!

Oops. Yes!

It's too late to go back and correct my post. Sorry!

 

[Gardener1850]

I think those were really weird, general comments about his children. Like "Look what a good dad I am! I know what cartoon characters my kids like!" When, in reality, those are very famous cartoon characters and most toddlers I know are into them. Almost everything he said, other than the "motherly" and "rampage" comments were general things that could be applied to many kids that age. Telling them to eat their supper, that one had a Sofia the First chair, etc. That whole interview made me feel like he didn't really know his kids at all so he was pulling out superficial traits.

After watching a lot of videos of the kids I think he had their personalities correct-- Bella is quieter and CeCe is a ball of energy all the time, HOWEVER, I don't think those words were HIS words. He says Bella is "calm, cautious, mothering type and shes more like me" which makes no sense-- Is CW calling himself motherly? He quickly adds again that she is "calm" as if he realizes that it didn't sound right to say he his 4 year old picked up "mothering" traits from him, and he wants to emphasize that he is the calm type. But it makes sense that Shanann might say something like at and she did say that Bella "is motherly like me (SW)" here: Shanann Watts

I think if this interview had been a high school book report, CW would have plagiarized the entire thing. IMO, he didn't know his family, he just knew how to repeat words others had said. Which makes me wonder if perhaps while Shannan was in AZ she told CW to make sure the girls were eating well (no dessert before dinner) and be sure to turn on their rain machines so they could sleep. Things that a parent who was away would worry about telling an occasional caregiver not to forget but no parent would choose as things they will miss when their children are "missing". MOO.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I have a question. Attorneys are not supposed to knowingly present lies to the court correct? So, does the defendant have to be the one to come up with the lies or does their attorney somehow come up with it and get their client to go along with it? For instance, how Jose Baez represented to the court that CA's dad had abused her. Did he suggest that line of thinking to her or did she come up with that on her own? I'm just wondering how these defense attorneys come up with their strategies.

Your post will be answered by one our learned attorneys but your question prompted me to research a little. Now this excerpt is from a paper written by a Deputy Senior Public Defender, I'm sure this applies in the US too and it's quite a head scratcher -

For the defence then the object of the trial is to prevent the prosecution getting evidence in that can prove the elements of the offence and to present or get from prosecution witnesses evidence that will compel doubt.
Now there is an abiding myth that all criminal lawyers are good for is explaining facts. It is a myth. Good criminal lawyers are good with the facts because they know there is no way the facts can help if they aren't admitted and its corollary, that if prosecution facts aren't admitted they can't hurt. Good criminal lawyers are good with the facts because they know their way around the Evidence Act.
Evidence - Using the Evidence Act for the Defence

 

[riolove77]

I think SP got the death sentence, didn't he?
I think CW should get it too....

Yes, he did. But in my glorious state of CA, the average time from the handing down of a sentence of death until actual execution is 37.5 years. We have not executed anyone since January of 2006. We have approximately 750 inmates on death row as I write this. It's absolutely ridiculous. We had Prop 66 on the 2016 ballot, which was passed marginally, and it's intended to cap appeals for capital punishment at five years, but it's going to be tied up in constitutional litigation for so long that it'll never be enforced.

 

[rainynights]

After watching a lot of videos of the kids I think he had their personalities correct-- Bella is quieter and CeCe is a ball of energy all the time, HOWEVER, I don't think those words were HIS words. He says Bella is "calm, cautious, mothering type and shes more like me" which makes no sense-- Is CW calling himself motherly? He quickly adds again that she is "calm" as if he realizes that it didn't sound right to say he his 4 year old picked up "mothering" traits from him, and he wants to emphasize that he is the calm type. But it makes sense that Shanann might say something like at and she did say that Bella "is motherly like me (SW)" here: Shanann Watts

I think if this interview had been a high school book report, CW would have plagiarized the entire thing. IMO, he didn't know his family, he just knew how to repeat words others had said. Which makes me wonder if perhaps while Shannan was in AZ she told CW to make sure the girls were eating well (no dessert before dinner) and be sure to turn on their rain machines so they could sleep. Things that a parent who was away would worry about telling an occasional caregiver not to forget but no parent would choose as things they will miss when their children are "missing". MOO.

Great thinking! SW seemed to be both energetic, as well as calm and nurturing, IMO. I could see BW and CCW having unique (and perhaps even contrasting) personalities, and despite that still being more like SW.

CW seemed to be going through the motions, but the deeper connection seemed to be a loving mother with her much loved girls. Jmo

 

[PrimeSuspect]

After watching a lot of videos of the kids I think he had their personalities correct-- Bella is quieter and CeCe is a ball of energy all the time, HOWEVER, I don't think those words were HIS words. He says Bella is "calm, cautious, mothering type and shes more like me" which makes no sense-- Is CW calling himself motherly? He quickly adds again that she is "calm" as if he realizes that it didn't sound right to say he his 4 year old picked up "mothering" traits from him, and he wants to emphasize that he is the calm type. But it makes sense that Shanann might say something like at and she did say that Bella "is motherly like me (SW)" here: Shanann Watts

I think if this interview had been a high school book report, CW would have plagiarized the entire thing. IMO, he didn't know his family, he just knew how to repeat words others had said. Which makes me wonder if perhaps while Shannan was in AZ she told CW to make sure the girls were eating well (no dessert before dinner) and be sure to turn on their rain machines so they could sleep. Things that a parent who was away would worry about telling an occasional caregiver not to forget but no parent would choose as things they will miss when their children are "missing". MOO.

Great post and I agree. CW is good at parroting. I think he picked up from SW the reason for the baby monitor too. SW would have explained why they need to have one, so they can see the babies, if they're in distress or being harmed, that it's a life saving device. jmo

 

[Seattle1]

I wonder when this will be resolved?
Potential release of Christopher Watts case autopsies is focus of conflicting arguments

Few things are more emotional than the autopsy report of a child.

Per the article: The defense says they have no knowledge of witnesses who the prosecution have not yet interviewed. If the court makes its ruling based on this criteria, Watts' attorneys have asked for a hearing to determine whether this position has any merit.

I don't think there will be a hearing until after 19 November 2018 and/or CW status hearing previously scheduled. MOO

 

[riolove77]

I feel like I'm waiting for November 19 more than I am for Thanksgiving, and I LOVE Thanksgiving.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Let us folks know when Ashley tells her audience it's strange that he supposedly has a photograph up in his cell of his wife, the wife that killed his beloved children. The wife that he had to kill because she was strangling her children. Pffft

I thought of the oddness of that, too, but then I realized that the defense will likely be putting forth his remorse for "rage" killing her even though she killed his children. So this is a sign of "forgiveness" and "regret" IMO being set forward.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I was talking about a personal journal. Personal as in - not something shared on SM.
jmo

I understood what you meant, hand written entries in a pretty book. IMO, what she shared on SM couldn’t get much more personal. I think part the reason people are captivated by this case, is because we almost think we know her and we can relate to so many things that she shared about her personal life, family life, past, present and future. I honestly don’t know where she’d find the time in the day to sit down and hand write anything more personal. JMO. Does anyone know if there has ever been another criminal case where the public has had such an open window into the personal life of a victim? Please know, I am not in anyway attacking SW, I am pointing out my opinion regarding whether or not she kept a journal.

 

[PommyMommy]

After watching a lot of videos of the kids I think he had their personalities correct-- Bella is quieter and CeCe is a ball of energy all the time, HOWEVER, I don't think those words were HIS words. He says Bella is "calm, cautious, mothering type and shes more like me" which makes no sense-- Is CW calling himself motherly? He quickly adds again that she is "calm" as if he realizes that it didn't sound right to say he his 4 year old picked up "mothering" traits from him, and he wants to emphasize that he is the calm type. But it makes sense that Shanann might say something like at and she did say that Bella "is motherly like me (SW)" here: Shanann Watts

I think if this interview had been a high school book report, CW would have plagiarized the entire thing. IMO, he didn't know his family, he just knew how to repeat words others had said. Which makes me wonder if perhaps while Shannan was in AZ she told CW to make sure the girls were eating well (no dessert before dinner) and be sure to turn on their rain machines so they could sleep. Things that a parent who was away would worry about telling an occasional caregiver not to forget but no parent would choose as things they will miss when their children are "missing". MOO.

Great post!

First, that video... Two opposite little personalities, but it is clear what a loving, sisterly bond they had. It's so incredibly unfair that their grandparents will never get to see their "first day of school" photos, the dresses they pick out for their proms, their graduations... Ugh, makes my heart hurt.

Second, it was apparent to me from the first time I watched his video interviews that he was trying to say the right words (FAIL) and express the correct emotions (DOUBLE FAIL), but he couldn't do either. But, I didn't think about him mimicking Shanann. What stood out to me was how his words and actions resembled other murderers. How he mirrors some of Shanann's statements is a very intriguing observation indeed.

MOO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I understood what you meant, hand written entries in a pretty book. IMO, what she shared on SM couldn’t get much more personal. I think part the reason people are captivated by this case, is because we almost think we know her and we can relate to so many things that she shared about her personal life, family life, past, present and future. I honestly don’t know where she’d find the time in the day to sit down and hand write anything more personal. JMO. Does anyone know if there has ever been another criminal case where the public has had such an open window into the personal life of a victim? Please know, I am not in anyway attacking SW, I am pointing out my opinion regarding whether or not she kept a journal.

Not necessarily hand written notes in a pretty book. From what I gather SW was tech savvy and if she did have a personal journal I suspect she used a digital format. We know there were problems in their marriage and as far as I can tell she wasn't sharing that on SM. If she did journal, as I was suggesting, maybe that would be something she would have in her personal journal.
jmo

 

[idfinch]

I feel like I'm waiting for November 19 more than I am for Thanksgiving, and I LOVE Thanksgiving.

I hadn’t realized that was the holiday week! I personally despise Thanksgiving so this will give me something else to look towards.

The hardest part about each step of these long cases is the hurry up and wait.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I have vague recollections of that case. At the time I found it so hard to believe he was guilty.

After being on WS for a couple of years and trying to learn to pick up on different types of signs... I'd like to go back over that case and see it with 'new' eyes. Right now I'm feeling that I was a bit naive and going on emotion when I looked at the Entwistle case back then.

With CW I am trying to remove as much emotion from my assessments and analysis as I can. I still have emotional reactions, especially when looking at the photos and videos of little Bella and Celeste. But I don't want those emotions to cloud a colder assessment. It's not about what I want, it's about finding out what really happened. If I could have what I wanted in this case, none of them would be dead And if they had to be dead, then I'd rather it was something like CO poisoning than at the hands of any other human being.

I found a Real Crime show on youtube last night on Neil and Rachel (and Lilly Rose, their 9 month old daughter) Entwistle. Shout out to PommyMommy for the article about him! I found it very "on point" for this case. **Note if you read my post last night about Chris Coleman, I mistakenly referred to James List when I meant to say Christian Longo (had my FAs mixed up for a moment - what is it with FAs named Chris by the way??).

So many parallels with CW IMO with the Entwistle case. For those unfamiliar (I was): About 30 year old British guy with an American wife. He was quiet, shy, well liked, educated, and good looking. She was a teacher who loved kids and was considered very outgoing and full of life. In this case, as a computer savvy guy of the times (early 2000s), he is the one who creates and posts pictures online on a family web site of their life and travels and has a tag line of "happy family" for the pics with their new daughter on the site. Meet in England and move to Massachusetts. Her father bonds with him and teaches him how to shoot guns at his club (big mistake). He point blank shoots her and the 9 month old daughter while she is holding the baby in bed. He then drives to the airport (Boston) and flies home to England to stay with his parents, never reporting a thing. When authorities find his wife and child on a wellness check days later, they get ahold of him by phone and he says he just found them like that and in a state of shock, left. His story changes multiple times over the years. First he says he drove toward her parents house to get a gun to shoot himself after he "found" them like that because he was at a store when it happened, but no one was home so he left for the UK. He was asked on the phone call with police how he knew they were dead and he said he saw a gun shot burn hole on the baby's jumper but didn't see anything on the wife. So he just assumed she had been shot, too. Later, he is arrested (before it looks like he was about to go on the run after staying with his parents) and extradited. At trial...shocker...comes a new story by the defense after it has been figured out her father's gun was used in the crime (so how did a stranger do it?). Now he says he had found the gun on the bed and blames his wife - his wife had shot herself and the baby. To protect her reputation for being a murderer and committing suicide, he says took the gun and left. At trial they prove she probably couldn't have easily shot her baby (the bullet went through the baby and into her plus another in her own head) even though there is gun residue on the front and back of her hands (a point people, including his parents and brother, cling to to this day as evidence of his innocence). No gun residue is found in his car that he drove at some point afterward to the airport. He does not testify. Unsurprisingly, like all FA fathers, he has a SECRET LIFE. He lied about proceeds from his old job and was living on credit cards in America while living the high life. He was trying to produce hard core sites and frequently trolled for escorts online. Was even online after the murders trolling for escorts on his computer (at the house). Her family and friends felt re-victimized by him blaming it all on his wife and throwing mud at her at trial. Also, no surprise, a fangirl who wrote to him after trial years later was convinced of his innocence until he wrote her of seeing the look in his wife's eyes when she pulled the trigger and his daughter call out in pain, hence putting himself now in the room at the time of the killings even though he had always maintained he wasn't home. Now, she is convinced he is guilty after all. Anyway, amazing parallels IMO, no?