Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Thepoet]

He's not thinking it through. It's hard to keep up with all the lies. The picture display is a feeble attempt for sympathy. JMO

PR. Probably orchestrated by the defense. IMO it's so obviously a PR attempt, it'll fail.

 

[human]

From the book.

When she demands that he eat foods he dislikes, he learns that his tastes are beside the point. He will swallow what he is fed, period. He will pretend not to mind. And, once he turns himself completely inside out psychologically, he will actually enjoy it. When she forces him to nap when he would prefer to play or read, he learns his internal clock is broken, and that he must look to others to know when he is tired. When she lets him cry himself to sleep rather than comforting him, he learns that his loneliness and protests and sadness and tears are to no avail—ignored, useless, as though not even real. And he will soon stop feeling those feelings and be silent at bedtime, already an expert at putting his desperation and anger to sleep. When she stops talking to him for hours or days when he disappoints her, he cannot miss the terrifying symbol that she has the capacity to cut him out of her life, and to effectively end his. And he will strive—swear a blood oath, if necessary—to never let her down. If he ever shows her how angry he is becoming, she might tell him he has no right to feel that way and should “leave her house” if he isn’t happy with the way she runs it. And, terrified at being cast out to fend for himself, he will disguise his curling lip or swallow his harsh words or learn to ignore the clenching of his jaw, and bury his rage deep inside him. When he laughs at something, she can shake her head quizzically, as though there is nothing funny at all, and he will learn not to trust his sense of humor, to resist smiling or laughing at things that amuse him. He will instead check the faces of others to know precisely when they are beginning to smile, so he can mimic their expressions, and laugh when they laugh. “We have exactly the same sense of humor,” he will tell them. And they will believe they are with a blood brother. When she tells him enough times that he “makes no sense,” he will start to believe her express any opinions, instead soliciting the ideas of others, and restating them as his own. “We think alike,” he will tell them. And they will believe they have found a kindred spirit. He will slowly kill himself off, and become a person imitating a person, a hunter-gatherer of the “emotions” and facial expressions and ideas that will receive the best reception, that will get him some of what he needs from a world he has learned is unfeeling and unpredictable and cruel and potentially lethal. He will start down the road to sociopathy. And there are so many more ways a mother could push a child there, from his earliest years. She could force him to use the toilet when he is resistant to doing so, then ridicule or punish him when he fails to harness his bodily functions perfectly to her will. She could simply fail to show any joy at signs of his developing personhood—his favorite color, favorite song, favorite animal, favorite food or piece of clothing or storybook. “Green?” she could ask, with a shrug. “You like green? I always thought it was such a boring color.” And from that day forward, he will hate the color green. He will ask his roommates or friends or girlfriends the colors they like and profess to like the very same ones. How coincidental. How lucky to find such a perfect friend, or a lover so much like you. She could disagree with him about reality—the color of a shirt, whether a promise was ever made to go somewhere after school, when a period of punishment was slated to end.

 

[ZsaZsa]

CW seems to be a classic covert narcissist. He plays the victim to garner sympathy from his friends and co-workers and I won't be one bit surprised if it comes to light that CW complained about SW to everyone who would listen. He probably never let SW know that he had issues with their relationship. He probably liked being submissive to SW in certain aspects. It was convenient to let her make all the decisions and planning. That way, she would be held accountable and he could claim it was all her decisions because she was "so controlling" to his sympathetic friends and family. It will be interesting to hear what he confided to his affair partner about SW. I'm guessing he sat back on his passive arse and SW was left to make all the serious decisions by default.
Covert narcissists are the most dangerous. At least with the malignant narcs (Trump etc.), you know how they are already.

What's the betting he will also blame AP for the affair? IMO he will claim he was a reluctant adulterer who was pressured into it.....

 

[Tippy Lynn]

We have one side of the story and that is CW since he admittedly killed SW.
If we (I) go with CW side of the story he's still wrong, evil and a very bad person. Why anyone would defend him is mind boggling to me JMO
If his story is true his demeanor and lack of any emotion during the news interviews is extremely disturbing MOO
I have zero sympathy for CW and feel he deserves the DP. IMO

Defending someone and exploring possibilities are different. I see both sides being possible. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't discuss both sides. If there's a trial both sides will be discussed. jmo

 

[Thepoet]

“How a person should be.” I think about how I would react in that situation and the first thing that comes to my mind is, there could be no interviews because I would be sedated in my bed under a doctor’s care. Perhaps in time, and with the support of my family, I could maybe, beg and plead for the safe return of my loved one. There would be no make up, no hair do, just a crying, skinny woman with bags under her eyes from lack of sleep and no appetite.
But just look at him and SP and Susan Smith etc. They’re up, put together, doing interviews...I just don’t get it.

They're getting the attention they desperately need/want.

 

[katydid23]

IMO he was trying to disguise the panic he was feeling inside.

But if someone is in a 'total panic' they cannot disguise it the way this guy did, by appearing totally calm and casual and smiling and making small talk, for 3 interviews. A total panic means one is acting erraticly and is unable to think clearly etc.

And his speaking was very calm and rational. he was nervous, sure, but he was not in a panic.

 

[Charlot123]

Exactly. In the book I am reading about Scott P, they learn how to be by denying any feelings or sense of self as an infant and then a child. Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson explains the process of how someone turns into a CW or Scott P. No crying allowed. Never angry. Be what someone else wants you to be. Agree with everything. Never cause a fuss.

Another thought - what both SP, who seemed social, and CW (less so) had in common was certain emotional dumbness. Being emotionally dense, or emotionally obtuse. Maybe it comes up with upbringing, or is genetic, but it is not being a nerd. It is just that trait, and when you think of both guys burying their partners/kids, it becomes obvious.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

They're getting the attention they desperately need/want.

I suppose.

 

[Gardener1850]

I agree. Without the murders, what I see is a guy who is simply not too graceful. There is another video of CW, made a few years ago, before his weight loss. He is in his kitchen, in a wide shirt, singing (to a dog? Not sure). All I can see is that he has imperfect pitch and moves out of sync with own singing, and the video is funny, but that is all. Yes, slightly nerdy, but this is not an explanation for his actions. Interestingly, it seems that his nerdiness generated some fun at home, as on Metallica video, SW's father, good-naturedly, posts something like, "sounds like Chris is having fun". Overall, a normal video, a normal family, normal responses. But it was a year ago, before SW was deep into marketing of her product, I understand.

BBM. Yes, the Metallica concert was his birthday present from SW from last year. Not sure what you mean by the bolded as SW was doing many Thrive videos on her SM during the year 2017 too. Thrive probably paid well enough that she could buy concert tickets for him. She surprised him by putting his present (A Metallica t-shirt and tickets) in a box that said "LeVel" on it. I think she made him think he was getting Thrive products for his birthday and that she was going to film a video of him as a promo. MOO.

Here's the video of CW opening his birthday present (SW says in the beginning "Watch Daddy open his birthday present, he's getting a month of Thrive"): Shanann Watts

 

[PommyMommy]

But if someone is in a 'total panic' they cannot disguise it the way this guy did, by appearing totally calm and casual and smiling and making small talk, for 3 interviews. A total panic means one is acting erraticly and is unable to think clearly etc.

And his speaking was very calm and rational. he was nervous, sure, but he was not in a panic.

And he didn't just smile.
He laughed.
THREE TIMES in one interview!
Hahahaha, I have no inclination where they're at.
MOO

 

[katydid23]

Defending someone and exploring possibilities are different. I see both sides being possible. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't discuss both sides. If there's a trial both sides will be discussed. jmo

It is totally fine to discuss both sides. And discussion goes back and forth. So if someone wants to set forth a statement describing the validity of CW's version, then the discussion will continue, with some people replying in opposition to that statement. I think we should be allowed to discuss, in a back and forth way, which is natural and normal when people are not in agreement.

 

[Amonet]

I realize it's not a cookie cutter scenario. The media interviews and the actions CW took after the fact are bizarre and unexplainable to me. The point I was looking at is the fact that mothers have killed their children when the father wanted out of the marriage.
jmo

I think if anyone were to deny that mothers have ever killed their children before they would be incorrect.

That article about Brandi Worley lacked a lot of information compared to what we have in this case, so it's really hard to look for comparison points. Her behavior in killing her children and then calling LE is a little more reminiscent to me of psychosis cases, but we've heard from our verified psychologist people on the board that it's extremely unlikely that psychosis would come on and leave within an hour or so period and disappear.

And on top of that, how many husbands go on to kill the wife and then proceed to hide everyone's bodies and lie to LE and pretend the wife ran away with the kids? The spouses in those cases seem to suffer extreme protective responses, if they're aware their children are in the process of being attacked by their spouse, they call LE, they call for an ambulance. They don't seem to calm down and decide to hide the bodies?

Male familicide perps who don't commit suicide seem to be the closest analogy to what happened here. I am thinking that some of those male familicide perps might show similarities with other cases where there aren't living children but either a pregnant wife or a non-pregnant wife.

I looked up Neil Entwistle on YouTube and the only documentary I could come across was one from Investigatino Discovery(?) where they had two cases on one show, one was Entwistle and the other was a man who poisoned his wife to death. The latter was lying about things to his wife, unlike CW he had an outgoing gregarious nature, and as his lies and financial troubles started coming down on him his solution was to poison the wife, leave town and start afresh. Other than the poison and the gregarious nature, it seems to have similarities to CW's presentation of murdering his family, pretending he had nothing to do with it, and him saying that he was thinking of selling the house...presumably with the thought of moving on and starting afresh?

And I think that hope of starting afresh might make the difference between some familicide perps who commit suicide once they've killed the family, and those who lie and say they didn't do it, and then they seem to move on, perhaps move to a different part of the country, start a new relationship, get a new job and a new life, leaving the old life behind. I suspect that's the sort of thing CW had in mind once he got LE convinced that Shanann had simply walked out on him and taken the children with her.

 

[rogue ant]

IMO he was trying to disguise the panic he was feeling inside.

But why didn't he just leave??

 

[noel leon]

In the interviews , not only NOT in a panic but I swear he is wearing face makeup!

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Excellent point about the picture! Kudos

Excellente’!

 

[Davia18]

Defending someone and exploring possibilities are different. I see both sides being possible. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't discuss both sides. If there's a trial both sides will be discussed. jmo

Exploring Possibilities ?
I'm going with CW story and what he has said and his 100% fact actions (news interviews), so not sure what is meant by possibilities?
By the way my post was not directed at anyone, just was speaking in general.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yes, Shanann and her children are not here to tell their side, but the State of Colorado will do that for them. And, I believe it will be compelling. What they have and will be able to show is far more than what we have here at this point, and that is plenty.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls
• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months
• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am
• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son
• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled
• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors
• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children
• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck
• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence
• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt
• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches
• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode
• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt
• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW
• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point)

AFFIDAVIT:https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

INTERVIEWS: CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #15

NO evidence that slain mom Shan’ann Watts killed her young children: Report
MOO

Here is what I think the defense could say in response to your points.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls
• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls
• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away
• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters
• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this
• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors
• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them
• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck
• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above
• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them
• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them
• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different
• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt - possbily
• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since
• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW

jmo

 

[Best of What's Around]

But if someone is in a 'total panic' they cannot disguise it the way this guy did, by appearing totally calm and casual and smiling and making small talk, for 3 interviews. A total panic means one is acting erraticly and is unable to think clearly etc.

And his speaking was very calm and rational. he was nervous, sure, but he was not in a panic.

Right. And IMO DEVASTATION AND GRIEF should have overtaken any other emotion IF his later story were actually true. If you believe CW's confession, IMO you must believe that two parents did not care about their children and became murderers the same night. And, that CW had superhuman powers over his emotions to have suffered the unspeakable tragedy and yet be able to immediately cover for it and do many of the things someone who had PLANNED the murder of his entire family would do. IMO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

It is totally fine to discuss both sides. And discussion goes back and forth. So if someone wants to set forth a statement describing the validity of CW's version, then the discussion will continue, with some people replying in opposition to that statement. I think we should be allowed to discuss, in a back and forth way, which is natural and normal when people are not in agreement.

Agreed.

 

[Layla123]

But when we look at him, and his demeanor during the three interviews, he was NOT in a 'complete panic.'


panic=
sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior.

CW’s actions were so reprehensible, the likes of which, I’ve never seen in my life before. The worst for me is lifting his 2 precious little daughters out of their beds, dead and stiff, carrying them downstairs, loading them up into his truck, driving them 40 miles away to an oil field out in the middle of nowhere, then taking their bodies out of his truck, and carrying them up 20’ of stairs to the top of an oil tank, opening that tank, and dumping them in. I think that is the most callous act I’ve ever heard that anyone ever committed. I find his behavior so repulsive and disgusting, I can’t bring myself to believe a word he said after that point in time. In my book, he’s lost his right to continue to exist on this planet. Guilty or innocent, I don’t care. He brought this all onto himself. And if it turns out that SW killed those little girls, all I would say is she should have killed him, instead.