Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[gitana1]

Interesting but can I just ask if this is heavily researched as to how SP was raised? Because it does bug me that the mother is ALWAYS blamed. Did SP have a dad involved with his upbringing? And this "bad mothering," the smothering and oppressive mother, they KNOW this is how he was raised? I am not sure I buy this as the explanation for these sociopaths. Seems reductive and mommy-blaming IMO

Well in that case I think he is mommy blaming and perhaps with good reason. At least as in part as to how his character was developed. Because let's be clear: NO ONE is to blame for these crimes but the murderer themself.

In some of the cases of sociopathic criminals they have mothers with seeming personality disorders and their fathers are the passive, enabling counterparts. And the two work in tandem with each other.

In others, like Ted Bundy, the sociopath has a likely brutal and abusive father and a passive mother.

In Chris Coleman's case he had a strict, pastor father that he could not bear to disappoint.

But in many of the surviving annihilator type cases I've looked at, a dominant mother with issues and a passive, enabling father (or one who doesn't have a lot of canera time) seem to be more common.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wouldn't it be irrelevant? IMO, he is an adult responsible for his own actions, even IF he had a bad childhood. JMO

For medication, no it's not irrelevant at all. That is what a mitigation specialist is hired to do for death penalty cases. That is why death penalty cases will take much longer to go to court is because of the research they have to go into the background of the accused. Perhaps one of our lawyers can explain it better than I.

 

[nwmouse]

If it is 'abusive' to tell your spouse that they have a lack of fashion sense, and to pick out and purchase all their clothing for work and important events, then ARREST ME right now. I have been abusive for 36 years now.

I think many women buy clothes for their husbands/boyfriends.
If I do not pay attention to what Mr Mouse is wearing he'll go out in khaki shorts with mandals and horrid long socks. He looks as though he's going on safari. I don't think its a red flag that SW bought CW new outfits - they were probably more suitable than ones he'd pick for himself.

 

[Amandaaa]

That's actually not really true. Per the Colorado constitution:

Section 19. Right to bail � exceptions. (1) All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties pending disposition of charges except:

(a) For capital offenses when proof is evident or presumption is great;

Article II, Bill of Rights

This is mirrored in the CRS:

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 16 - :: Criminal Proceedings :: Code of Criminal Procedure :: Article 4 - :: Release From Custody Pending Final Adjudication :: Part 1 - :: Release on Bail :: § 16-4-101. Bailable offenses - definitions

No bail is not automatic. If there was something super exculpatory there would not longer be "evident proof" or "great presumption".

I believe it is automatically no bond unless prosecution fails to demonstrate the required standard at the hearing.

ETA: unless something has changed (a definite possibility) since i worked in a Colorado DA’s office...

 

[tara83]

As a scenario, he could be. I do not think this anymore, but his actions do show it. He seems to do whatever she wants. He does not save his child who does not want to ve squirted, for instance. It could be because he is abused.Not physically, but mentally. Never good enough.Never does the right thing.

The fact that she is always praising him is as if she is the superior judge and he is the child who is imrpoving to meet her better standards.

That is a way of looking at it.

I so not like her gratuitous hyping of him on the net. It really bothers me. It’s as if she is approving.

Save her from being squirted with a water hose?Really?The kid looked like she was having fun to me.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Truly, you must read the book. It is clear as day as to what happened. Every thing that causes issues including being separated from parents at birth is his story.

His story, as in SP, not CW’s. We don’t know CW’s story yet, but we probably will.
jmo

 

[JEM1975]

I know exactly what you are saying and I can see how you and others would see them and this case the way you do, but I don't see CW and SW the way so many others do. I absolutely hate being the minority on here. It would be so much easier for me to see it the way you and others do, but I can't.
jmo

Tippy Lynn I would like to hear your viewpoint. I think a lot of the things you say make sense and come from a thought out position.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

My husband owns one shirt which I absolutely hate. It has weird colors on it and makes him at least ten years older. It simply doesn't look good on him. I told him at least 10000 times but he never listens to me...
I thought about secretly getting rid of it. I could never do this because I know he (somehow) likes it but I wish I could .

But back to topic: I think that there are always two parts playing in a relationship when it comes to situations like this. One who likes to lead and the other who want's to follow. He could have simply said: Shannan - thank you sweetie, but it's my style and if you want me than you'll need to accept me the way I am. Instead he accepted her buying him new clothes. I mean he was a grown up man and I'm sure he had the possibitly to speak for himself more than once. And at that point (without children and being married) he could have simply ended it in an instant. But for whatever reason he decided to hold on.

The flip side of her buying his wardrobe is it could be argued she was caring and thoughtful enough to do all his shopping for him. It takes two to tango, it seems his quiet shy nature as described by friends, meshed well with her take charge, leading the way attitude. Per their friend’s they started out in that dynamic when they first met, they told friends SW did everything because “he had no game”. It seems he was ok with her til he wasn’t, and that seems to coincide with the affair. I don’t see a build up of rage over the years. Prior to the last few months, friends described them as always touching, hugging andkdding each other, that is not a description of an unhappy couple.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Save her from being squirted with a water hose?Really?The kid looked like she was having fun to me.

She was. People see what they want to see. Abusing a laughing child with a water spray bottle. What a horrid childhood we must have all had.

 

[nwmouse]

As a scenario, he could be. I do not think this anymore, but his actions do show it. He seems to do whatever she wants. He does not save his child who does not want to be squirted, for instance. It could be because he is abused.Not physically, but mentally. Never good enough.Never does the right thing.

The fact that she is always praising him is as if she is the superior judge and he is the child who is imrpoving to meet her better standards.

That is a way of looking at it.

I do not like her gratuitous hyping of him on the net. It really bothers me. It’s as if she is approving.

I'm confused now. On one hand this post is alluding to SW being mentally abusive to CW, and on the other hand this post says she is always praising him and hyping him.
How does praise equate to mental abuse?
MOO

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Agree, Bella was laughing and every time SW squirted the door to include CeCe Bella moved in to get her mom squirting her again. CW closed the door once then opened it for Bella to go in, he did not. make her stay out there.

 

[katydid23]

As a scenario, he could be. I do not think this anymore, but his actions do show it. He seems to do whatever she wants. He does not save his child who does not want to be squirted, for instance. It could be because he is abused.Not physically, but mentally. Never good enough.Never does the right thing.

The fact that she is always praising him is as if she is the superior judge and he is the child who is imrpoving to meet her better standards.

That is a way of looking at it.

I do not like her gratuitous hyping of him on the net. It really bothers me. It’s as if she is approving.

I guess there are 'levels' of abuse. Just because a wife is bossy or assertive, that does not mean she is 'abusive.' To me, abusive means there is a punitive, aggressive behavior connected to those demands.

But just telling Santa where to sit or stand for the video, does not seem like abusive behavior, imo.

 

[rainynights]

entertainment industry? There is a lot of latitude there. Now that is scary. My hubby bought his jeans at .....Menards. So do not give me your tale of woe.

But you can save big money at Menards

I'm wondering if people would think the same if the genders were reversed. Man and woman meet, he tells her he almost didn't even finish the date due to her personal style, then "fixes" her by getting rid of all her clothes and buying her a new wardrobe he found suitable.

People who are victims of spousal abuse often don't leave. Abuse is insidious in that it happens over time, and little by little so it becomes difficult to sometimes recognize from the inside of the situation. Questioning why a person didn't leave an abusive situation is really oversimplifying the complex nature of abuse.

Now, before y'all get your throwing tomatoes out, no, I don't know that he was an abused spouse. I also don't know that he wasn't.

Where's that "ducking behind the couch" emoticon? Lol

Back to the original topic, I don't think a woman (or a man for that matter) buying new clothes for a love interest is a big deal. SW likely cared about fashion, as we can see from her showcase of BW's closet from her blog.

Journey of Bella Marie: I organized your closet today. More clothes!

If we flipped it and spoke of a man buying his new woman clothes, I don't know if it would hold the same comparison if that same man later proudly photographed his daughter's closet full of clothes that he purchased and neatly arranged in the closet on perfectly spaced hangers in anticipation of her arrival. Jmo

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I'm confused now. On one hand this post is alluding to SW being mentally abusive to CW, and on the other hand this post says she is always praising him and hyping him.
How does praise equate to mental abuse?
MOO

Because she was lying, don't you know? When she's nice, it's just for the cameras. When the camera/phone is off, she's mean to him. She's an actress, or so we've been told.

 

[human]

Well in that case I think he is mommy blaming and perhaps with good reason. At least as in part as to how his character was developed. Because let's be clear: NO ONE is to blame for these crimes but the murderer themself.

In some of the cases of sociopathic criminals they have mothers with seeming personality disorders and their fathers are the passive, enabling counterparts. And the two work in tandem with each other.

In others, like Ted Bundy, the sociopath has a likely brutal and abusive father and a passive mother.

In Chris Coleman's case he had a strict, pastor father that he could not bear to disappoint.

But in many of the surviving annihilator type cases I've looked at, a dominant mother with issues and a passive, enabling father (or one who doesn't have a lot of canera time) seem to be more common.

These are not issues like the mother did somethings wrong. These are deeply pathological.

We all have parenting screw ups. These issues are

His story, as in SP, not CW’s. We don’t know CW’s story yet, but we probably will.
jmo

I really want to hear his story. Trauma for sure. Maybe he was in the hospital for a long time as an infant.

The Umibomber went to hospital as a baby and was not allowed to be held. I think his parents were not allowed to visit. Not sure. But mom said he came home changed.

I believe it

 

[Golden Girl]

Most people don't murder, no. There was definitely something not right in him for that to have been even an option to him.

Exactly! Something must have been going on within himself to choose the option he has admitted. MOO

 

[nwmouse]

I think it would depend on the evidence presented. I’m guessing more will come out that will sway me to one side.

Tippy, we're trying to help get your other cheek off the fence!!!!! Just kidding.
Its interesting to read about the different perspectives in this case.

 

[human]

I guess there are 'levels' of abuse. Just because a wife is bossy or assertive, that does not mean she is 'abusive.' To me, abusive means there is a punitive, aggressive behavior connected to those demands.

But just telling Santa where to sit or stand for the video, does not seem like abusive behavior, imo.

If he is treated abusively off camera, he WILL DO as she says.

I think he is a psychopath now, though. He acts like an abused woman would act, to me.

I think it is because he has no idea of how to be.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

She was. People see what they want to see. Abusing a laughing child with a water spray bottle. What a horrid childhood we must have all had.

I never realized I was abusing my cats by using the same kind of squirt bottle whenever they used to jump on the kitchen counter or dining room table. I feel like such a horrible person now.

 

[rogue ant]

Statistically, men are more likely to kill children. Statistically, pregnant women are more likely to be killed by their partners.

CW is still alive. His family is dead. Purely based on the math, CW committed the crimes.

I also think he is guilty on all counts, but a death penalty case can't be decided based on statistics. Or any case for that matter.