Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[human]

Wouldn't there have to be some prior documented violence on the part of CW for SW to get a protective order? As far as we know there was nothing in their past that would have been a red flag to her that he might kill them all. No previous domestic calls, no threats. Although I hope if he ever made threats to her in private that she somehow recorded it, I'm afraid this will end up being just like all the other family annihilator cases where there was no warning.

There were some signs, They were cheaters. I think they all had financial issues

 

[Charlot123]

BBM. Yes, the Metallica concert was his birthday present from SW from last year. Not sure what you mean by the bolded as SW was doing many Thrive videos on her SM during the year 2017 too. Thrive probably paid well enough that she could buy concert tickets for him. She surprised him by putting his present (A Metallica t-shirt and tickets) in a box that said "LeVel" on it. I think she made him think he was getting Thrive products for his birthday and that she was going to film a video of him as a promo. MOO.

Here's the video of CW opening his birthday present (SW says in the beginning "Watch Daddy open his birthday present, he's getting a month of Thrive"): Shanann Watts

You know why I though it was pre-Thrive?
Because the posts next to that video were normal! Her dad, with his good-natured joking at CW, herself mentioning Colorado nights.

All the posts related to her sales activity ring fake or overly enthusiastic. I am far from blaming SW for feeding the kids a nut bar, or search for hidden meaning in her water squirt video. I think it is all normal and she never crossed the line.

I feel so sorry for SW. She battled a serious illness, she had two kids, she was trying to create a better life for herself and her family, the way she saw fit, she has done nothing wrong, her friends say she was kind. She was horribly deceived and killed. And wronged.

Why can't I find good words for her? I know she did not kill her kids. I know it was her husband. I despise him.

It is just that selling these products and fake lifestyle is terribly irritating.

So I wonder - even from people who recognize SW was only the victim, I see many posts in SM horribly bashing her. Is it because most of her posts were made after she started selling Thrive, and real SW we don't know? Or simply, the SM is so cruel? Or both?

 

[human]

That could be if there’s no documented violence. An affair is not looked upon kindly in divorce cases I’m familiar with especially if there are dependent children in the home.

I think CO is a no fault state? Cheaters don’t matter

 

[mickey2942]

I believe CW is a lot like McDonald, although, not as smart. CW is a psychopath, who has by this time, convinced himself that his version of the story is true. He will play the Victim and Martyr role to the hilt, and enjoy the trial for the attention. His sick, narcissistic self, is probably already doing "fantasy" trial scenarios in his head. What he will say, how he will act, his facial expressions. No doubt, the trial is epic, in his head.

 

[Charlot123]

Here is what I think the defense could say in response to your points.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls
• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls
• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away
• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters
• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this
• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors
• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them
• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck
• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above
• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them
• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them
• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different
• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt - possbily
• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since
• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW

jmo

True, but she ended up lying in a s shallow grave, her kids were extracted from oil tanks, her husband inspiredly lied during the interview - and later acknowledged to killing her and burying all of them.

If the LE finds evidence of an accessory, I am prepared to review this version. But nothing has been offered so far. And SW is innocent.

 

[MCDRAW]

Ugh, I’m with you there. Absolutely 100% mothers AND fathers can do terrible damage to a psyche. But it’s very difficult to determine whether it’s the case. And there’s individual responsibility.

It’s very murky territory. Chris didn’t kill them because his mommy spanked him (or didn’t) — or whatever. She’s no more responsible for the deaths than Shanann is, for pity’s sake.

It is always the Mother's fault, didn't you know? I say this with great sarcasm because I hear this all the time.

 

[human]

I believe CW is a lot like McDonald, although, not as smart. CW is a psychopath, who has by this time, convinced himself that his version of the story is true. He will play the Victim and Martyr role to the hilt, and enjoy the trial for the attention. His sick, narcissistic self, is probably already doing "fantasy" trial scenarios in his head. What he will say, how he will act, his facial expressions. No doubt, the trial is epic, in his head.

If he is a psycopath, he has no idea of how to act or what would be human.

 

[Gardener1850]

Hypothetical question: I noticed in all their Thrive event videos that SW was not the only one videoing everything going on. There were always hundreds of other Thrivers holding up their phones taking video. In all the event videos and photos they are of course promoting their product and showing a "lifestyle" where they are happy and partying. So it's no wonder they look like a perfect couple in love in the pictures and videos. Other couples they knew from these events have said they acted like a normal couple too. But I wonder if anyone who videoed the Thrive events for their own page could have captured SW and CW on video without their knowledge? Especially the last trip they took together to San Diego. Theoretically, if there was video like this taken by a third party and it showed something significant (like they were arguing or looking really upset at each other), would this video be allowed as evidence?

 

[human]

It is always the Mother's fault, didn't you know? I say this with great sarcasm because I hear this all the time.

Perhaps if you read the story of SP’s mother, it would become obvious. She is a victim of horrible circumstances that were chosen for her as a child. Sad, but true that the trauma lives on

 

[human]

'They' were cheaters ? SW was a cheater? Any msm links for that?

Scott Peterson. CW. McDonald. Longo? Who else?

 

[katydid23]

Scott Peterson. CW. McDonald. Longo? Who else?

Oh, I thought you were talking about the Watts. I thought the original question was why didn't she get a Order of Protection?

 

[Charlot123]

Interesting. JMD also murdered his pregnant-with-a-son wife Collette. And their 2 young daughters. There's a brief section in Fatal Vision that addresses similar subconscious motivations of being threatened in some way by having a son, because he wasnt secure in his own masculinity and/or had latent homosexual tendencies.

I once read a book about mythology, only I can't remember the author. Perhaps it was James Frazer (or one of that bunch).

It spoke about the tanist, the son, or the new moon, arising above the horizon when the father, the moon, the king, is in full strength and the prime of his reign. And as the father becomes older and loses strength, the new moon becomes stronger and ultimately, kills the father and reigns himself.

This is a very symbolic representation of the father-son relationship, but it bypasses erotic side substituting it for the power (the kingdom).

Personally, I think both SP and CW were scared of inner worlds (very cruel, as we know now) and the possibility of passing whatever they saw in themselves to their sons.

 

[MassGuy]

Hypothetical question: I noticed in all their Thrive event videos that SW was not the only one videoing everything going on. There were always hundreds of other Thrivers holding up their phones taking video. In all the event videos and photos they are of course promoting their product and showing a "lifestyle" where they are happy and partying. So it's no wonder they look like a perfect couple in love in the pictures and videos. Other couples they knew from these events have said they acted like a normal couple too. But I wonder if anyone who videoed the Thrive events for their own page could have captured SW and CW on video without their knowledge? Especially the last trip they took together to San Diego. Theoretically, if there was video like this taken by a third party and it showed something significant (like they were arguing or looking really upset at each other), would this video be allowed as evidence?

Perhaps. But I'm not sure if it would be that big of a deal. Couples argue all the time, and Facebook videos aside, I don't think anyone is under the impression that these two did not have it out, from time to time.

 

[MCDRAW]

Perhaps if you read the story of SP’s mother, it would become obvious. She is a victim of horrible circumstances that were chosen for her as a child. Sad, but true that the trauma lives on

Wasn't speaking in terms of SP, really just speaking in general terms. Edited to add: I was totally being sarcastic because my 4 teenagers all felt like everything was my fault because I was the disciplinarian.

 

[riolove77]

I believe CW is a lot like McDonald, although, not as smart. CW is a psychopath, who has by this time, convinced himself that his version of the story is true. He will play the Victim and Martyr role to the hilt, and enjoy the trial for the attention. His sick, narcissistic self, is probably already doing "fantasy" trial scenarios in his head. What he will say, how he will act, his facial expressions. No doubt, the trial is epic, in his head.

Yeah, I agree. When this first happened, I immediately thought of JMcD. Everyone said SP but I think people forget about JM cause it's so much further in the past. But the circumstances were eerily similar, in that both had two young daughters and their wives were pregnant with sons and there was cheating going on on behalf of the perpetrator. It's also weird to me (though obviously coincidental) that CW hails from the Fort Bragg, NC and that's where JM was stationed when he killed his family.

They also both had/have outlandish stories, though I gotta give JM the credit here on being the more creative of the two in his fairytale.

The difference is the level of intellect. CW has shown us that he is completely unable to lie, regardless of how well he tried to hide it. His story was unbelievable from the get go, but coupled with his incredibly inappropriate affect and mannerisms, my dog even knew he was guilty.

JM also had a ridiculous recounting (and his appearance on Dick Cavett was a whole different story) but he DID get away with the murders for nearly a full decade. He was very intelligent, an accomplished serviceman and doctor, well-educated (Princeton), charming, charismatic, and outgoing. Totally different from CW, who by all accounts seemed withdrawn and seemingly in his wife's shadow.

I highly recommend Fatal Vision, for anyone looking for a good read.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

For those who haven't seen it, I recommend this episode of 48 hours about Christian Longo, another FA.

The Pretender
*video at link

The episode is about 45min. I'd seen it before back when it originally aired, but was interesting to watch it again with fresh eyes (since following this CW case). There are some amazing similarities, IMO. Jmo

Thanks for posting the program about Longo. I'm 20 minutes in and there's already one amazing similarity that jumped out at me.
Longo went into his place of work and told a work colleague (who often babysat the kids) that he and Mary Jane were separating (it was also the day the body of Zac was found in the river).
She found it strange for him to come in to tell her, CW did the same with NUA.
NUA was worried SW was ill inside the house and CW informs her, he and SW are separating! CW already setting up a scenario like Longo, that their wives have taken off with their children. Also, in the doco, people commenting Longo seemed like an ordinary guy, a family man.

 

[Gardener1850]

You know why I though it was pre-Thrive?
Because the posts next to that video were normal! Her dad, with his good-natured joking at CW, herself mentioning Colorado nights.

All the posts related to her sales activity ring fake or overly enthusiastic. I am far from blaming SW for feeding the kids a nut bar, or search for hidden meaning in her water squirt video. I think it is all normal and she never crossed the line.

I feel so sorry for SW. She battled a serious illness, she had two kids, she was trying to create a better life for herself and her family, the way she saw fit, she has done nothing wrong, her friends say she was kind. She was horribly deceived and killed. And wronged.

Why can't I find good words for her? I know she did not kill her kids. I know it was her husband. I despise him.

It is just that selling these products and fake lifestyle is terribly irritating.

So I wonder - even from people who recognize SW was only the victim, I see many posts in SM horribly bashing her. Is it because most of her posts were made after she started selling Thrive, and real SW we don't know? Or simply, the SM is so cruel? Or both?

Her social media was used to sell Thrive but she also did posts for family in NC too. I think the lines blurred at times because she was technically always promoting Thrive just by wearing one of their DFT patches. Her family members commented on the posts throughout, even some of the obvious Thrive sales posts. There was one I recall where CW had just started a new type of patch that was for weight loss and SW's mom commented how he doesn't need to lose any more weight (I think she meant it as a compliment to CW). SW replied the patch was for maintaining. There was also a promo type post where SW talked about her dad trying out one of the patches and had a picture of him wearing it.
Based on these posts I take it her parents were following every post she made and were supportive of her MLM business. They probably posted normal comments to their daughter because to them this was a normal business. Or they loved her enough to not criticize her choice to do MLM/direct sales.
I get the irritation with MLMs (I don't think we're allowed to discuss that aspect and if they are legit anymore per the rules on the first page) but I think the thing to keep in mind is that these are real people. Even in the sales videos SW is a person trying to do her job and make a living for her family. I think social media gets nasty because people can be anonymous and can project all kinds of things on the people in the video that may not be there. SW was brave to put her life all out there as public posts. JMO.

 

[Misy]

Hi, May I ask you a question, Tippy Lynn? I hope this is not against the TOS. Please remove if it is. I would like to tell you, Tippy, that I appreciate your sense of innocence and trust. I think one of the worst things in life would be to be accused/convicted for something you did not do. I 100% believe that CW killed all 4 of his family members (3 his children!!). But I appreciate your kindness and open mindedness in the face of such evidence. So here’s my question. You state that you need more information before you believe/feel CW guilty of these crimes. Proof. If there is no proof, in a hypothetical scenario where you are a juror in a murder trial where the evidence is purely circumstantial... let’s say that even the “victim” has disappeared, has never been found, and is deemed deceased at the hands of the accused, or any circumstantial case, like Scott P, Drew P, etc... sitting on a jury, could you ever find someone guilty without “proof” and based on purely circumstantial evidence? I apologize if this is/seems intrusive, and please don’t answer if you have any reservations at all to do so.

 

[mtnlites]

Thanks for posting the program about Longo. I'm 20 minutes in and there's already one amazing similarity that jumped out at me.
Longo went into his place of work and told a work colleague (who often babysat the kids) that he and Mary Jane were separating (it was also the day the body of Zac was found in the river).
She found it strange for him to come in to tell her, CW did the same with NUA.
NUA was worried SW was ill inside the house and CW informs her, he and SW are separating! CW already setting up a scenario like Longo, that their wives have taken off with their children. Also, in the doco, people commenting Longo seemed like an ordinary guy, a family man.

There are many, many similarities between these cases. Naturally there are differences in how they lived, their personalities, their ages, etc but a lot of the MAIN things are eerily alike. Both laid groundwork with friends/co-workers for a "separation." Both had financial difficulties. Both had affairs. Both dumped their children's bodies in liquid (CW oil tank, CL water). Both strangled their wives. Both accused the wife of killing the children and both claimed that they killed their wives in a rage. Both were fairly good looking. Both moved with their families across the United States. Both were fairly religious. The main striking difference is that CL took off to Mexico after the murders. However, we have no idea what CW would have done had NUA not shown up.

 

[MKZoo]

Yeah, I agree. When this first happened, I immediately thought of JMcD. Everyone said SP but I think people forget about JM cause it's so much further in the past. But the circumstances were eerily similar, in that both had two young daughters and their wives were pregnant with sons and there was cheating going on on behalf of the perpetrator. It's also weird to me (though obviously coincidental) that CW hails from the Fort Bragg, NC and that's where JM was stationed when he killed his family.

They also both had/have outlandish stories, though I gotta give JM the credit here on being the more creative of the two in his fairytale.

The difference is the level of intellect. CW has shown us that he is completely unable to lie, regardless of how well he tried to hide it. His story was unbelievable from the get go, but coupled with his incredibly inappropriate affect and mannerisms, my dog even knew he was guilty.

JM also had a ridiculous recounting (and his appearance on Dick Cavett was a whole different story) but he DID get away with the murders for nearly a full decade. He was very intelligent, an accomplished serviceman and doctor, well-educated (Princeton), charming, charismatic, and outgoing. Totally different from CW, who by all accounts seemed withdrawn and seemingly in his wife's shadow.

I highly recommend Fatal Vision, for anyone looking for a good read.

One of my earlier childhood memories was watching Fatal Vision. Gary Cole version, not Scott Foley (what on earth were my parents thinking!?). I agree that the big difference is that everyone believed JMcD’s story for so long, including Colette’s family. Maybe it was the proximity in time to Manson, maybe the country was naive, who knows. I actually think it’s cases like his and fellow McGinniss alum, Robert Marshall (not a FA, just a wife killer) that made us all stop believing these bizarre stories. Once burned etc ... CW is definitely experiencing the flip side where we all now immediately see how preposterous a story can seem when we consider things that actually, logically happen in real life. Jmo.