Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Thepoet]

I think the footprint was made in the house. I think the kids were put in bags for transportation.

I still have absolutely no idea why he would have found it necessary to step on what I believe to be a trash bag.

Why would he be barefoot in the house, when he was moving bodies and getting ready to leave? Why would he step on the bag with enough force to leave a print?

 

[Mellowmelly]

I'm back!!!! After almost a month without internet (because of a move) and a phone crash...I can get back online now.

I've got about 20 threads to catch up on but can someone give me a little bit of a summary? I see something about a footprint but not sure what that is about. Try not to move to fast until I get caught up please.

Welcome back ! It must’ve been hell... I would go insane without any internet lol.

 

[MassGuy]

I just had a horrific thought. What if one the girls wasn't dead yet? What if he saw the plastic bag move from slight breathing after he put her in it? Maybe he was barefoot while getting dressed for work and stepped on the bag to stop the breathing?

It’s possible, but I would expect him to strangle her again, and not take the chance that she would regain consciousness.

 

[Thepoet]

The court denied the state's motion to seal the records. The court agreed with the media who filed responses that the criminal court lacks the authority to decide the issue and that if they want it sealed the custodian has to file a separate action in district court.

If they do, then a separate court will decide.

Thank you. How much time do you think this will take?

 

[Nikynoo]

Why would he be barefoot in the house, when he was moving bodies and getting ready to leave? Why would he step on the bag with enough force to leave a print?

Perhaps he bagged and then dressed? I agree that Massguys scenario is more likely at present.

Unless he wore flip flops to the site and they somehow came off?

 

[PommyMommy]

There was no reason for CW to be barefoot at the house, not at the time he would be using a bag. He would be fully dressed and ready to leave. From the true crime books, articles, etc., that I have read, killers are so busy being smart that sometimes, they end up being dumb. (Sorry for this description) I think CW had a problem getting, at least one of the girls, through the hatch. He couldn't bare to look at them, so he covers them with the bag they had been transported in and uses his foot to push down (legs are stronger than arms and there's more leverage), But being smart he doesn't want a shoe print, so he removes his shoe, leaving a foot print. When he's done he throws the bag down, over the side and then forgets about it while he's burying SW. Since there seems to be no blood traces anywhere, perhaps he was very careful of not causing blood. In that case maybe the bag over the body, while it was in the hatch, was a barrier to blood and the shoe was removed because shoe soles do retain traces of blood, DNA, etc., in the nooks and crannies. Feet can be wiped off or washed. The DA did want prints and measurements of his feet. IIRC. Again, sorry for the descriptions. Any way you turn, it's horrible.

That's interesting, and thank you. Although that's possible, I'm going with the impression being made at the house, for now. I don't think he necessarily would have been dressed and ready for work at the time of the murders. I also recall seeing videos from SW's FB where he is barefoot in the home, and it just seems more likely to me. And yes, any way you look at it, it's horrible.

In any case, I feel like we've had some very productive and logical discussions in the past few days and I hope that continues. Thanks again for your input.
MOO

 

[ZsaZsa]

I agree. Not to mention, the whole meaning of Christmas was completely missed......
jmo

My brother sent me one of my all time favorite Christmas videos some years ago. I had thought I bought just the right gift for my great niece. I looked forward to seeing her (3 yr old) playing with it.Instead when she opened it she said "I hate it, it's horrible, take it away". We still laugh about that now she is grown up...

 

[MassGuy]

Why would he be barefoot in the house, when he was moving bodies and getting ready to leave? Why would he step on the bag with enough force to leave a print?

Assuming that he was barefoot when he committed the crime (more probable than not), his next step was to prep the bodies for transportation.

He places each child in a trash bag (when print would be left), wraps Shanann in a sheet, ties up some loose ends, and then gets dressed.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Why would he be barefoot in the house, when he was moving bodies and getting ready to leave? Why would he step on the bag with enough force to leave a print?

He may have got dressed in a hurry after carrying out his appalling acts, he may well have been panicking about getting rid of any evidence, knowing time was not on his side, he IMO would have been chaotic, rushing around and just didn’t need to put his shoes on until he was ready to leave the house.

 

[gitana1]

Is this good?

Depends on your point of view. The state apparently thinks sealing the results will prevent a jury pool or witnesses from being tainted. The media is worried about constitutional rights and things like not having secret trials. The defense doesn't seem to think it's important.

 

[Nikynoo]

He may have got dressed in a hurry after carrying out his appalling acts, he may well have been panicking about getting rid of any evidence, knowing time was not on his side, he IMO would have been chaotic, rushing around and just didn’t need to put his shoes on until he was ready to leave the house.

Also, he may have kept his work boots in his truck?

 

[MassGuy]

Also, he may have kept his work boots in his truck?

I think when he left that house, he was fully dressed in his work clothes.

 

[Seattle1]

Is this good?

It's what was expected all along. The DA filed a preemptive motion not to disclose the reports until trial, on a date when the autopsy reports didn't even exist. Although the statutory custodian of autopsy records is the Coroner, he could not file petition on the date the DA filed because the reports did not exist.

Nonetheless, a Weld County Judge earlier recognized the DA as the "custodian" for "homicide" autopsy reports. The court also requested that the Defense decide whether or not they agreed there was merit to delay disclosure of the reports.

The Media wants the reports released now, and since they are required to make their request to the Coroner, and not the DA, the Media filed a motion to require the Coroner to file a separate petition not to disclose the reports, and the court just ruled that this was proper.

The Coroner has previously stated that he agreed with the DA's motion to not release the autopsy reports until trial for the reasons stated by the DA, but also said he would comply with any ruling. The question now is whether or not the Coroner will seek to seal the reports from the Media until trial. I think the Media will prevail sooner than later. MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

It’s possible, but I would expect him to strangle her again, and not take the chance that she would regain consciousness.

IDK he seems lazy and if he had already taped up the bag or tied it closed he might think it was faster to step on her neck to break it or step on the bag where it was loose in order to pull it tight across her mouth and cause suffocation. These differences in MOD would show up on the autopsy report right? Perhaps that is why he was so vague about one girl being blue. He only described one as being strangled. Just speculation.

 

[Thepoet]

Experiment time! Take a non-porous bag, lay it on the floor, step on it (a normal step), and see how long the print is retained. Then take the bag and put something in it, like a large teddy bear, and tie it up. Carry it around, put it in a car, and then check it to see how much of a print was retained and if the print has been distorted. If the prosecution is comparing prints it's most likely the print was made with enough force to be retained (more than just stepping backward) and wasn't distorted. IMHO the print had be made with force and just before the bag was discarded. I'm a big man and I tried this test with a trash bag. In a matter of minutes the print was gone. Trash bags are made to be flexible.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Also, he may have kept his work boots in his truck?

Very possible, from the videos I have seen, the house looks immaculate. I would imagine there was a take your shoes off before you enter rule. Especially dirty work boots.

 

[MassGuy]

Experiment time! Take a non-porous bag, lay it on the floor, step on it (a normal step), and see how long the print is retained. Then take the bag and put something in it, like a large teddy bear, and tie it up. Carry it around, put it in a car, and then check it to see how much of a print was retained and if the print has been distorted. If the prosecution is comparing prints it's most likely the print was made with enough force to be retained (more than just stepping backward) and wasn't distorted. IMHO the print had be made with force and just before the bag was discarded. I'm a big man and I tried this test with a trash bag. In a matter of minutes the print was gone. Trash bags are made to be flexible.

The question isn’t so much if it would be retained, as it is the reason that one would step on it in the first place.

It could have been incidental.

It could have also been for some practical reason. What is the practical reason?

 

[Davia18]

So I completely read the post about maybe the footprint was not CW but someone else from the house. I know that was not the post but that's what my brain read then thought OMG was it one of the girls or SW and maybe one of them was not deceased at the time. YIKES just freaked myself out

 

[Nikynoo]

Experiment time! Take a non-porous bag, lay it on the floor, step on it (a normal step), and see how long the print is retained. Then take the bag and put something in it, like a large teddy bear, and tie it up. Carry it around, put it in a car, and then check it to see how much of a print was retained and if the print has been distorted. If the prosecution is comparing prints it's most likely the print was made with enough force to be retained (more than just stepping backward) and wasn't distorted. IMHO the print had be made with force and just before the bag was discarded. I'm a big man and I tried this test with a trash bag. In a matter of minutes the print was gone. Trash bags are made to be flexible.

I would do this (do I need sweaty feet?), but I do not have any technology laying around that would detect possible latent footprints

 

[PommyMommy]

Experiment time! Take a non-porous bag, lay it on the floor, step on it (a normal step), and see how long the print is retained. Then take the bag and put something in it, like a large teddy bear, and tie it up. Carry it around, put it in a car, and then check it to see how much of a print was retained and if the print has been distorted. If the prosecution is comparing prints it's most likely the print was made with enough force to be retained (more than just stepping backward) and wasn't distorted. IMHO the print had be made with force and just before the bag was discarded. I'm a big man and I tried this test with a trash bag. In a matter of minutes the print was gone. Trash bags are made to be flexible.

What method did you use to retrieve the barefoot impression from the bag?
MOO