Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

[book-thinker]

So tired of reading the HIV route in this case honestly. If that guy had not come forward with his story about having an affair with CW the unreasonable, biased speculation about the HIPPA seal would not include HIV. Sign of the times. jmo

I hoped by now the assumption, a person sexual orientation doesn't inequality the person might have HIV.

 

[mtnlites]

I am trying to find a case where both parents kill on the same night out of revenge and can't find any yet except where a male family annihilator killed his family and tried to blame it at least in part on his wife. Found 2 cases for that from the past.

I have found cases where parent A claimed that parent B killed the kids so parent A killed B out of anger (only to later learn that A killed everyone), but I haven't been able to find a case wherein both parents kill in the same manner on the same night.

 

[MassGuy]

I have found cases where parent A claimed that parent B killed the kids so parent A killed B out of anger (only to later learn that A killed everyone), but I haven't been able to find a case wherein both parents kill in the same manner on the same night.

There’s good reason for that. It doesn’t appear to have happened in recorded human history.

 

[mtnlites]

Why is it impossible to see SW had a motive? I find it plausible she had several.
1. Divorce
Woman have killed husbands that left them
2.money
She had a lot to lose
The exact reasons CW had motive are the same for her

1. She had already been through one divorce and did well for herself once it was over. It wouldn't be new territory for her. Also, she had just spent 6 weeks away from Colorado. And we don't know that CW wanted to leave her. All we have is a third party quote and there's no way of knowing whether CW was telling that person the truth.
2. I think she had more to GAIN by leaving him. This is a woman who bought a nice house on her own at the age of 25. In addition, if the people who I know that work for MLMs are any proof, women who suddenly find themselves on their own and supporting their children find quite a bit of support in the selling angle of such products. Of course, there would have also been child support payments, possibly alimony, and financial assistance from her family if she needed it.

CW was having an affair, probably more than one.

 

[MKZoo]

A thought on this woman possibly facing a second divorce. I think some are surmising that in CWs version of things, SW became a murderer because she was so despondent she could not let this marriage fail and killing her children suddenly made some crazy sense.

I think that a woman who had one failed marriage might fight to save a second one. Even if it was toxic. Even if it was not at all in her best interest to do so. Even if it was unknowingly dangerous to do so. I think that’s entirely possible.

I do not think a woman who experienced a failed marriage and thrived afterwards would forget she could survive. I don’t think she would forget her real life experience that would tell her she and all of her babies would be okay. That is the essential reason I can’t buy CW’s story. SW was nothing if not a woman who was able to examine her own life. After all, we have so many posts of her doing just that.

Jmo.

 

[mtnlites]

A thought on this woman possibly facing a second divorce. I think some are surmising that in CWs version of things, SW became a murderer because she was so despondent she could not let this marriage fail and killing her children suddenly made some crazy sense.

I think that a woman who had one failed marriage might fight to save a second one. Even if it was toxic. Even if it was not at all in her best interest to do so. Even if it was unknowingly dangerous to do so. I think that’s entirely possible.

I do not think a woman who experienced a failed marriage and thrived afterwards would forget she could survive. I don’t think she would forget her real life experience that would tell her she and all of her babies would be okay. That is the essential reason I can’t buy CW’s story. SW was nothing if not a woman who was able to examine her own life. After all, we have so many posts of her doing just that.

Jmo.

Yes! Indeed.

A woman who experienced a failed marriage, at least two debilitating medical conditions (Lupus and fibro), sick children, and a cross-country move away from family and friends. This was a woman who was so organized that her organizers were labeled. And despite how we may feel about Thrive (I don't particularly get into that kind of thing) it takes a LOT of work. Yet she was able to build a downline, become a part of that very supportive community, rise several levels, and even become someone that a lot of sellers looked up to. In what, like, two years?

From what we can see from the outside, SW was an organized, ambitious, go getter who appeared to give 110% to whatever she was doing-whether it was socializing with her "people", keeping her house spotless, or organizing games and playtime for her children. Though, like many people, she probably cared about appearances, she also appeared to put in the actual work. And while she may have gotten emotional on a few FB posts, she didn't seem to let things hold her back. As a member of the Lupus and chronic pain communities, I've seen many people more or less give up when their health just becomes too much to handle; SW seemed to tackle her issues head on. I've seen nothing in any of her online activity to suggest that she couldn't have handled a new wrench in her life plans.

 

[Colorado303]

I agree. I have only seen black and white cameras, so it sounds suspicious that he claimed to be able to see her “blue face”, especially with the monitor screen being so small.

I thought it was odd that he saw one of his children sprawled out and blue yet waited for the camera to switch over to his second daughter’s room before doing amything. If it had been me, the instant I saw my child blue I would be dashing to them as fast as I could...

 

[gitana1]

I think the HIV route referenced is a biased and an uneducated assumption that if the defendent slept with a man (the alleged AP who came forward) then must have contracted HIV.

As far as the sealed HIPPA motion, I think it's a strategy for a mental illness claim to mitigate the death penalty when he is found guilty. jmo

It a delaying tactic. Or a CYA competency exam request on the part of a defense team who may be looking at a client whose competency they think may indeed be in question.

 

[Colorado303]

I'm sure he did realize this. As for being part of the motive - I can definitely see this as a possibility. In their media interview, the Thayers said that when CW stayed with them Tuesday night, he told them he was going to sell the house. They said that was the first time they had heard about financial problems.

CW's wife and children were supposedly "missing" when he made this statement to the Thayers. He wasn't apparently concerned about them - he was apparently concerned about that house. JMO.

IMO when he said that he was still spinning the tale that he and SW had separated, and ising the “fact” that they had discussed selling the house as further “proof” she had up and left. I don’t think he realized his goose was cooked until the day after. The Thayers were just pawns to him. Bet he wishes he had made up stories about SW losing her temper instead.

 

[gitana1]

I thought it was odd that he saw one of his children sprawled out and blue yet waited for the camera to switch over to his second daughter’s room before doing amything. If it had been me, the instant I saw my child blue I would be dashing to them as fast as I could...

Of course. That's what any sane parent would do. Just one more crazy part of the story one would have to accept, along with every other improbable, fantastical leap in logic that one would have to take in order to find his nonsensical story remotely plausible.

There's just too much one would have to pretend didn't occur or have to pretend doesn't matter that it didn't occur, or have to pretend isn't reality (like pregnant women never being family annihilators but routinely being victims of them), in order to get there.

At a certain point I truly think it comes down to motivation to want to believe she killed her kids due to intense dislike for her.

No doubt in my mind that twisted whispering in internet land has helped foment that dislike.

Yet all I can think of now is how beautifully it's going to backfire.

Trial won't be for years. That's years the state has to refute the ugly and ridiculous rumors some who support CW out there have spread. Years for the state to line up every teacher, colleague, co-worker, fellow parent, doctor, neighbor, friend, family member, child care provider, etc., to attest to the reality of who she was and what she did, all juxtaposed with evidence of the depths of depravity of the sinister liar CW is. The mountains of texts messages and internet searches and witness evidence of months of deception that I think it's a safe bet to make, exist in this case - as they do in most every other.

 

[Colorado303]

Of course. That's what any sane parent would do. Just one more crazy part of the story one would have to accept, along with every other improbable, fantastical leap in logic that one would have to take in order to find his nonsensical story remotely plausible.

There's just too much one would have to pretend didn't occur or have to pretend doesn't matter that it didn't occur, or have to pretend isn't reality (like pregnant women never being family annihilators but routinely being victims of them), in order to get there.

At a certain point I truly think it comes down to motivation to want to believe she killed her kids due to intense dislike for her.

No doubt in my mind that twisted whispering in internet land has helped foment that dislike.

Yet all I can think of now is how beautifully it's going to backfire.

Trial won't be for years. That's years the state has to refute the ugly and ridiculous rumors some who support CW out there have spread. Years for the state to line up every teacher, colleague, co-worker, fellow parent, doctor, neighbor, friend, family member, child care provider, etc., to attest to the reality of who she was and what she did, all juxtaposed with evidence of the depths of depravity of the sinister liar CW is. The mountains of texts messages and internet searches and witness evidence of months of deception that I think it's a safe bet to make, exist in this case - as they do in most every other.

Yes. Considering the reaction most people have when they see victim blaming, in this case the prosecution may well turn it to their advantage.

 

[tmar]

Source: CDC. Diagnoses of HIV infection in the United States and dependent areas, 2016. HIV Surveillance Report 2017;28.

Gay and bisexual menc are the population most affected by HIV. In 2016:

• Gay and bisexual men accounted for 67% (26,570) of all HIV diagnoses and 83% of diagnoses among males.
• Black/African Americand gay and bisexual men accounted for the largest number of HIV diagnoses (10,223), followed by Hispanic/Latinoe (7,425) and white (7,390) gay and bisexual men.

Trends among gay and bisexual men have varied by race. From 2011 to 2015:

• Among white gay and bisexual men, diagnoses decreased 10%.
• Among African American gay and bisexual men, diagnoses increased 4%.
• After years of sharp increases, diagnoses among young African American gay and bisexual men (aged 13 to 24) stayed about the same.
• Among Hispanic/Latino gay and bisexual men, diagnoses increased 14%.

 

[mtnlites]

It wasn't CW's alleged homosexual affair that made me think of HIV or an STD, but the promiscuity in general. There are at least two people who have been made public (the AP in the legal doc and the man who called into the newschannel) and whispers of more (the woman on the dating app who he took to Chik fil A). And these were all in the past year. While people can certainly have sexual affairs and remain "safe" with their new partners, sometimes they're not. The old cliche is still true–when you sleep with someone, you're also sleeping with that person's previous partners. A newly diagnosed STD would be VERY difficult to explain to your spouse, especially if you've previously been tested in the past.

 

[wildflower@]

Source: CDC. Diagnoses of HIV infection in the United States and dependent areas, 2016. HIV Surveillance Report 2017;28.

Gay and bisexual menc are the population most affected by HIV. In 2016:

• Gay and bisexual men accounted for 67% (26,570) of all HIV diagnoses and 83% of diagnoses among males.
• Black/African Americand gay and bisexual men accounted for the largest number of HIV diagnoses (10,223), followed by Hispanic/Latinoe (7,425) and white (7,390) gay and bisexual men.

Trends among gay and bisexual men have varied by race. From 2011 to 2015:

• Among white gay and bisexual men, diagnoses decreased 10%.
• Among African American gay and bisexual men, diagnoses increased 4%.
• After years of sharp increases, diagnoses among young African American gay and bisexual men (aged 13 to 24) stayed about the same.
• Among Hispanic/Latino gay and bisexual men, diagnoses increased 14%.

• Heterosexual contact accounted for 24% (9,578) of HIV diagnoses.
• Women accounted for 19% (7,529) of HIV diagnoses

U.S. Statistics

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if there even was “an emotional conversation.”

So do I.

I have a suspicion that he waited for Shanann to go to sleep before strangling her. And that he hid her phone first in case she got away and tried to call for help. From what I've seen of him I don't think he experiences rage, I think he is emotionally empty. I do believe this was premeditated from the fact that he left the house with their bodies so soon. If Shannan did go to sleep that shortens the window of time between killing and leaving the house.

 

[MsBetsy]

So do I.

I have a suspicion that he waited for Shanann to go to sleep before strangling her. And that he hid her phone first in case she got away and tried to call for help. From what I've seen of him I don't think he experiences rage, I think he is emotionally empty. I do believe this was premeditated from the fact that he left the house with their bodies so soon. If Shannan did go to sleep that shortens the window of time between killing and leaving the house.

That's a very good point about the phone. I have always thought he killed the kids before she got home and then killed her as soon as she arrived in order to prevent her from checking in on the kids and risking confrontation. But I have always wondered how the phone ended up there, since he apparently did not take the time to stage a scene. Maybe she was fast asleep by 2:30, and shortly after he killed her and then proceeded to kill the children. He would have had plenty of time to get them loaded in the car by 5:15, or around that time. But it does make sense that he would have hidden the phone before he murdered her, just in case. Jmo

 

[NuttMegg]

I dont know if he planned to end the marriage completely or just wanted to go off and be single for awhile yet still keep his family to fall back on/return to.

Through myriad ways he has told us so, so I believe him that he is a coward, and would never give her an ultimatum that he was leaving to actually do something on his own. I maintain that (IMO) the AP told him she wanted out, on Friday night, because yet again she was seeing the family coming together, and that he even had to have the kids over what could have been a clandestine AP weekend. Of course he didn't want to end the marriage completely, ie honestly. He just wanted them gone, but without losing the assets.

 

[NuttMegg]

Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Keith Ablow, author of "Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson,” spoke to Inside Edition.

"In every case I have looked at, they all make sense – it may be a terrible kind of sense but the narrative makes sense – that the birth of that child represented a kind of death, an impending death for the man," he said.

And, birth of the child would certainly represent an impending death of any serious extracurricular relationship, such as with a long term AP.

 

[Tortoise]

That's a very good point about the phone. I have always thought he killed the kids before she got home and then killed her as soon as she arrived in order to prevent her from checking in on the kids and risking confrontation. But I have always wondered how the phone ended up there, since he apparently did not take the time to stage a scene. Maybe she was fast asleep by 2:30, and shortly after he killed her and then proceeded to kill the children. He would have had plenty of time to get them loaded in the car by 5:15, or around that time. But it does make sense that he would have hidden the phone before he murdered her, just in case. Jmo

There's something in what he said about her going to bed that seemed to be genuine memory, I'm going to have another listen to see what it was.

 

[Tortoise]

There's something in what he said about her going to bed that seemed to be genuine memory, I'm going to have another listen to see what it was.

Hmm, maybe I'm talking out of my backside. I've written it down for the record, maybe it was the way he glanced to his left as he said it, or that it was an odd thing to say "barely" when he didn't leave for another three hours, but I did feel the utterance had spontaneity and was otherwise even more odd if he was making it up, I dunno. Just a feeling it's true.

4:35 minutes in:

"I le...I left work, for work early that morning, like 5:15, 5:30, so like she barely, I mean she barely got, barely gotten into bed pretty much"