Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

[RachB65]

My guess on this is that it’s someone related to the defense and the revelation of the name/identity alone would actually end up revealing much more.

Yes, its too bad isnt it.(sarcasm).People visiting anyone incarcerated in jail have no expectation of privacy, nor does the person incarcerated. Ive never heard of a motion to seal a visitor's log before

 

[Best of What's Around]

The prosecution filed the first motion to have them sealed and the defense and media is asking for them to be released.
jmo

I thought the defense basically said they don't really care and leave it up to the discretion of the court in a "we're already not receiving a fair trial, so whatever!" kind of motion. No?

 

[Best of What's Around]

The defense doesn't control the release of the autopsy reports. They are supposed to be public records and if the Judge does release them, the media will have their experts do the analyzing. The defense has its hands full focusing on their job and they seem to be doing a stellar job. JMO

Who said the defense has control of the release of the reports? They were expected to file a response and they did, to my knowledge.

I am certain the defense has their own experts to analyze the reports.

 

[Johnny1181]

The defense doesn't control the release of the autopsy reports. They are supposed to be public records and if the Judge does release them, the media will have their experts do the analyzing. The defense has its hands full focusing on their job and they seem to be doing a stellar job. JMO

True, but imo if they were helpful to the defense, as in leant any credibility to CW's incredible story, they would be advocating for their release.

As far as doing a stellar job, it seems early to assert that. Right now they have a client sitting in a cell without bail, and a confession that seems to be an incredible uphill battle against common sense to make believable to a jury. jmo

 

[Johnny1181]

I thought the defense basically said they don't really care and leave it up to the discretion of the court in a "we're already not receiving a fair trial, so whatever!" kind of motion. No?

Exactly. https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D 039 Notice(1).pdf

 

[ZsaZsa]

Agree. He aced the coherent test ever since he did his best to immediately cover up the crime plus immediately started to lie to everyone.

And he failed the temporary insanity test ever since he did his best to immediately cover up the crime plus immediately started to lie to everyone.

So if they did pay for a psychologist to see him and test him. Then it was probably a waste of money. Jmo

Maybe the reverse, they were hoping a psychiatrist would find some condition they could use to plead with, but they found him stone cold sober, lacking remorse and completely sane. They would need to hide that kind of asssessment...

 

[MyBelle]

Who said the defense has control of the release of the reports? They were expected to file a response and they did, to my knowledge.

I am certain the defense has their own experts to analyze the reports.

I'm pretty sure VA Amandaaa said up thread that they didn't have to file any response at all. The defense was trying to find out WHY the prosecution thought the reports should be sealed and what witnesses they claimed had not been interviewed.

Of course the defense will hire their own experts. My posting was in response to your post. The defense is not going to be "shouting from the rooftops" about anything before trial. JMO
Best of What's Around said: ↑

I imagine if it was anything truly exculpatory for the defense, they would have been shouting from the rooftops to have them released ASAP.

 

[Johnny1181]

I'm pretty sure VA Amandaaa said up thread that they didn't have to file any response at all. The defense was trying to find out WHY the prosecution thought the reports should be sealed and what witnesses they claimed had not been interviewed.

Of course the defense will hire their own experts. My posting was in response to your post. The defense is not going to be "shouting from the rooftops" about anything before trial. JMO
Best of What's Around said: ↑

I imagine if it was anything truly exculpatory for the defense, they would have been shouting from the rooftops to have them released ASAP.

I disagree. Those reports are most likely going to be released imo. The defense would know this and if there is anything in those reports to confirm their defendant's tale, I think they would indeed be "shouting from the rooftops" to have them released to the public and thus a potential jury pool.

Instead they filed a response saying basically, it doesn't matter, the defendent's not getting a fair trial anyway.
All jmo

 

[Best of What's Around]

I'm pretty sure VA Amandaaa said up thread that they didn't have to file any response at all. The defense was trying to find out WHY the prosecution thought the reports should be sealed and what witnesses they claimed had not been interviewed.

Of course the defense will hire their own experts. My posting was in response to your post. The defense is not going to be "shouting from the rooftops" about anything before trial. JMO
Best of What's Around said: ↑

I imagine if it was anything truly exculpatory for the defense, they would have been shouting from the rooftops to have them released ASAP.

​

IMO If there was something incredibly exculpatory for CW in the autopsy results, they would be doing everything they could to legally have it released ASAP. The fact that they are not indicates to me it is at best a wash, likely due to CW's plan to dump the evidence in crude oil for as long as possible.

<modsnip: info was corrected upthread>

 

[MyBelle]

True, but imo if they were helpful to the defense, as in leant any credibility to CW's incredible story, they would be advocating for their release.

As far as doing a stellar job, it seems early to assert that. Right now they have a client sitting in a cell without bail, and a confession that seems to be an incredible uphill battle against common sense to make believable to a jury. jmo

Respectfully, I am allowed to assert my opinion whenever I like. I think the defense is doing a stellar job protecting the rights of their client including due process and CW is innocent until proved guilty.

The defense's job isn't to advocate for release of records that are, by Colorado statute, public records. That's the job of the media attorneys. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure a verified attorney will weigh in and set me straight. JMO

 

[Johnny1181]

Respectfully, I am allowed to assert my opinion whenever I like. I think the defense is doing a stellar job protecting the rights of their client including due process and CW is innocent until proved guilty.

The defense's job isn't to advocate for release of records that are, by Colorado statute, public records. That's the job of the media attorneys. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure a VI attorney will weigh in and set me straight. JMO

Respectfully, I agree with asserting your opinion. I don't recall saying otherwise. That's why I am here, to express opinions in a healthy debate and exchange ideas. Which means a difference of opinions sometimes.
I have not said that it is the job of the defense to advocate for the release of the autopsy reports. I do believe imo, that if they were helpful to their client they would have. Rather than basically taking the approach of it doesn't matter because their client isn't getting a fair trial anyway. All jmo

 

[molly1255]

In your opinion. Which you're entitled to. The opinion that the murderer of Bella and CeCe may have been their loving, pregnant mother. Based on the confession of a murdering, smiling, lying adulterer. You are entitled to that opinion.

Based on the confession of a "man" who supposedly saw his babies being murdered and offered no life sustaining support. Did not call 911. Instead strangled his wife and killed his unborn son Nico.

Based on the confession of a "man" who then loaded the dead bodies of Bella, CeCe, Shannan and unborn Nico into his truck. And drove with them.

Then picked up Bella, or CeCe, we don't know who went first. And climbed all the way up that ladder with her, and dropped her in oil. Then down again, picked up his other daughter, climbed all the way up a different ladder, dumped her, then down again. Or perhaps he decided to dump Shanann and Nico in a shallow grave first. And shovel dirt over them.

Instead of calling 911. Instead of screaming his head off for help.

Based on the confession of a "man" who knowing he had committed these horrific acts, smiled, laughed, and showed off his shirt for the cameras on his porch. Knowing exactly where CeCe, Bella, Shanann, and Nico were. These are the facts we have. jmo

Agree - and to add, according to A. Thayer in a media interview, CW ate pizza at their house on Tuesday evening. He must have worked up quite an appetite.

 

[molly1255]

I finally remembered what I wanted to ask about this motion to hide the health records. Jumping off your post because you reminded me Doghairrules (thank you) but this is a question for anyone who wants to discuss-- Throughout these threads a few have implied that the defense will bring up Shanann and the girls' health issues (Lupus, nut allergies and asthma) as if those health issues are somehow evidence she could have flipped out and harmed her daughters. I don't believe there is anything in their medical records that will show that possibility. However, I'm curious how the defense could be looking to use this sealing of Shanann's medical records-- will they try to make claims about what is in the sealed records? On the flip side, could there be something in Shanann's medical records that would harm the defense (evidence of an STD or evidence SW was abused?)
Sorry if it's dumb question, but I have not followed too many court cases closely, so I don't know how this usually works if they seal the medical records of a victim. Do we think Shanann's medical records are more likely to help or hurt CW's case? Okay, discuss.

My thoughts are there is something in someone (s) medical records that is of concern to CW's defense. I don't know if the records of concern pertain to SW, the little girls, or CW.

That said, SW may have seen a counselor in the weeks before she died, if she discovered CW's affair (or more). If she did, IMO, those records would be very damaging to CW. I think that would outline his selfishness and cruelty toward SW and his lack of concern for the welfare of his little daughters.

 

[Mrspratcher]

No, the coroner did not file a lot of petitions to seal reports when I was there. In fact, none at all (that I’m aware of). And in all my decades of practice, I have *never* seen a prosecutor file a motion like this.

In the context of CORA (in the general sense) it isn’t strange to have a petition by the custodian - that follows the regular statutory procedure. That’s why I said the current one isn’t odd. I wouldn’t be surprised by it - even if I disagreed with it.

I have no way of knowing why the DA filed the motion, and I am as interested in finding out as everyone else. If I had to guess, though, I would say that there was something in the reports they didn’t expect. They filed before they had the final report - that, in and of itself, is strange - since CORA doesn’t even apply at that stage. And, from my experience (in Colorado and other states) they would have had most of the preliminary results by then.

ETA: I also find their rationale strange. Of course, we don’t know the contents of those reports so it’s impossible to know for sure.

Yeah, time will tell us for sure. November 19 is quickly approaching.

Can’t wait to see how this unfolds.

 

[liltexans]

MOD NOTE

STOP personalizing your posts. Stick to talking about the case and not about each other or you will get a thread ban. Some of you need to put each other on ignore.

This post falls at random.

 

[Amandaaa]

Respectfully, I agree with asserting your opinion. I don't recall saying otherwise. That's why I am here, to express opinions in a healthy debate and exchange ideas. Which means a difference of opinions sometimes.
I have not said that it is the job of the defense to advocate for the release of the autopsy reports. I do believe imo, that if they were helpful to their client they would have. Rather than basically taking the approach of it doesn't matter because their client isn't getting a fair trial anyway. All jmo

Respectfully, that’s not how it happens... the records are public - coroner (or DA) requests to seal them - defense could have stayed silent, but instead chose to respond and question both arguments. They want those records to come out.

I can see how it might look like they threw their hands up and didn’t really care, but IMO if you read between the lines it’s very clear that’s not at ALL what they’re doing.

They are actually arguing *against* the sealing- which is really the most they can do in this situation.

ETA: My opinion on this has ZERO to do with any possible reason they might want them to come out, and has zero to do with the question of guilt or innocence. It’s simply an observation based upon my years of practice, and knowledge of the criminal justice process and Freedom of information laws/procedure.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully, I agree with asserting your opinion. I don't recall saying otherwise. That's why I am here, to express opinions in a healthy debate and exchange ideas. Which means a difference of opinions sometimes.
I have not said that it is the job of the defense to advocate for the release of the autopsy reports. I do believe imo, that if they were helpful to their client they would have. Rather than basically taking the approach of it doesn't matter because their client isn't getting a fair trial anyway. All jmo

<modsnip - personalizing>. We'll agree to disagree.

Filling the role of advocate for the release of autopsy reports in other cases such as James Holmes have been the attorneys for the news media. JMO

 

[Johnny1181]

Respectfully, that’s not how it happens... the records are public - coroner (or DA) requests to seal them - defense could have stayed silent, but instead chose to respond and question both arguments. They want those records to come out.

I can see how it might look like they threw their hands up and didn’t really care, but IMO if you read between the lines it’s very clear that’s not at ALL what they’re doing.

They are actually arguing *against* the sealing- which is really the most they can do in this situation.

ETA: My opinion on this has ZERO to do with any possible reason they might want them to come out, and has zero to do with the question of guilt or innocence. It’s simply an observation based upon my years of practice, and knowledge of the criminal justice process and Freedom of information laws/procedure.

I respectfully disagree based on this filing. That's just my opinion.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D 039 Notice(1).pdf

 

[gitana1]

I fully realize I’m in the minority here - but I think there might just be something in those reports that is useful to the defense.

Ultimately, it’s anyones guess - and we will just have to wait and see...

If there was something "useful" in those reports to the defense they would be demanding a new bail hearing. IMO.

 

[Gardener1850]

My thoughts are there is something in someone (s) medical records that is of concern to CW's defense. I don't know if the records of concern pertain to SW, the little girls, or CW.

That said, SW may have seen a counselor in the weeks before she died, if she discovered CW's affair (or more). If she did, IMO, those records would be very damaging to CW. I think that would outline his selfishness and cruelty toward SW and his lack of concern for the welfare of his little daughters.

Interesting thought, molly1255. I had not considered that SW could have confided all she knew about CW's affairs to a counselor.

No one has brought it up yet, but I have wondered if the cause of SW neck issues leading to her surgery were written down somewhere in her medical records. I recall looking up the condition she had and getting the impression it could be caused by either an injury or a congenital condition. Do we know what caused her neck condition leading to surgery? No matter the cause however, I was thinking that the revelation of SW's neck issues could make CW's method of murder especially heinous in the eyes of a jury-- he knew her neck was especially vulnerable and yet he chose to strangle her. Going after a spouses "Achilles heel" so to speak, makes the murder seem more cold and premeditated rather than something occurring in a fit of rage. JMO.