Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

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  • #641
I can totally see him offering Shannan something like a "Thrive Shake" (with sleeping pills or something similar in it). I think she really believed in it and would have taken it after a long flight feeling totally exhausted. He could have even made the kids drink it before they went to bed and before she arrived because they than just would "sleep" when she would check on them (regarding the time Shannan arrived nothing suspicious). But I don't know if he was thinking that far...

I would doubt SW would drink a Thrive drink when she just arrived home very late from a weekend trip and those drinks are not used for sleep - quite the opposite. On second consideration, I am open to believe anything in this case.
 
  • #642
I would doubt SW would drink a Thrive drink when she just arrived home very late from a weekend trip and those drinks are not used for sleep - quite the opposite. On second consideration, I am open to believe anything in this case.
I think I remember reading there were some drinks that didn't have caffeine or other stimulants. But either way I could definitely see him giving them something, somehow, to knock them out. I have always hoped they were all drugged up and had no idea what was happening to them. Probably not the case, but that's what I would like to believe.
 
  • #643
If the motion was to save SW information from the public then her family and the prosecution would be more proactive.

So I doubt this hippa thing has anything to do with her. Jmo
It's a criminal proceeding so I think the effort of the defense is to obtain the information thru subpoena and then protect it from the public view until trial. I also think it is more likely about marriage therapy or pediatric care. JMO
 
  • #644
It's a criminal proceeding so I think the effort of the defense is to obtain the information thru subpoena and then protect it from the public view until trial. I also think it is more likely about marriage therapy or pediatric care. JMO
Were they in marriage counseling ? Or is it just a possible plausible?
 
  • #645
I agree with you that CW killed the girls first and then killed SW as soon she arrived home. As far as the phone, I believe it ended up on the sofa when CW killed her. I base this on the evidence and on what I've read about SW. First, NAU dropped SW off, and from all that I've read, I have to believe she didn't see CW. He didn't greet them. Her description, if I'm correct, was that she watched SW get out of the car and go into the house and then she (NUA) left. Next, inside the house, SW left her purse, suitcase, keys, and shoes by the door. That was out character! She was about being clean and organized and would have carried everything upstairs to the bedroom. Even if she was tired. I believe she set everything down, took off her shoes to be quiet, and rushed upstairs to see her children, out of concern. Her cell phone would have been in her hand, because to her, it was a necessary appendage like her arms and legs. Once she was upstairs, the nightmare began. I believe CW wanted her to see the dead children. A macabra " see what you made me do!" moment. In that moment he attacked and they ended up on the sofa, with her probably face down, and the phone under the pillows/cushions. When it was over, CW sat and thought about what he had done and probably ordered, in his mind, what he needed to do next. How long he sat and what he felt and thought is left to conjecture, at least until the trial. (autopsy results may answer some questions) Meanwhile, his schedule had been thrown off by the late flight. He probably could have gone out at 11:30 or even midnight without arousing suspicion (again, in his mind), to take care of "business", but 3 or 4 A.M. would be hard to explain. So, he had to wait until time to go to work. What did he do? A nap? I don't know. He probably did carry SW into the bedroom and placed her on the bed, on top of the fitted sheet. That might explain his "she had barely got into bed" statement. And, there probably was some last minute preparation, before he loaded the truck and left at 5:15 A.M. Upstairs, the phone was lying somewhere on the sofa, waiting to be discovered. I wonder if he thought about where it was when he called and texted her? Or, when he was racing to the house to meet NUA and LE? I wonder if LE asked him to call the phone so they could listen for ringing? Anyway, IMHO, that is how the phone ended up on the sofa.

I have often thought it might have been a scenario like you describe. It would explain the phone in the couch. Any thoughts on how her purse ended up in the kitchen? I noticed on their floorplans she would have had to walk past the stairs to get to the kitchen. Sample floorplan posted here by TheSaint: Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34
 
  • #646
  • #647
I would doubt SW would drink a Thrive drink when she just arrived home very late from a weekend trip and those drinks are not used for sleep - quite the opposite. On second consideration, I am open to believe anything in this case.

I see absolutly what you mean but consider it was already Monday "morning" when she arrived and she clearly wouldn't have much time to sleep in. Chris had to go to work early in the morning and she than would be alone at home with two small kids or at least had them to be ready for the daycare. But maybe he just ambushed her shortly after she arrived and she had absolutly no chance. She was pregnant, not feeling well and probably very very tired. So he would have had an easy game. I was always wondering how much struggle was going on in this house on that night. And like you I'm open to nearly everything except for his stupid story that she harmed any of their children.
 
  • #648
He does not know more than the public, doesn't he? I find it kind of impious that he tries to make money with this story. Sad sad world we are living in.
No he doesn’t know more than the public. He lives in South Africa and plagiarizes stuff from Reddit, Facebook, and god knows where else.

He takes public information, adds in a few drops of his insanity, and publishes garbage that he calls a “book.”

He does this with high profile cases, especially in the early days when public interest is high.
 
  • #649
No I haven't. I'm still waiting on my law partner. You said you worked at the district attorney's office in CO? Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

And that you've worked as both a criminal defense attorney and prosecutor.

I'm family law. I make appearances in criminal law here and there. Nothing major. So I do the best I can with research and asking my law partner (he does criminal defense both privately and for the alternate defender in LA).

But with your experience in criminal law in CO and in criminal law in general, I assume you can easily help us with CO criminal procedure? I assume you know it very well working as a prosecutor for the state of CO. And being a criminal law attorney in general?

A lot of stuff comes up that takes me awhile to answer.
Colorado was ages ago - so I can help with the caveat that things may have changed since then. I will try to check back later during the day when I get some time.
 
  • #650
You will learn more here IMO

In fact, I would almost bet money that most of his information comes from here and other similar sites.
 
  • #651
Weld County judge to hear arguments over Watts family autopsy reports


A Weld District Court judge has scheduled a hearing to determine if the autopsy reports in the Christopher Watts triple homicide case should be made public.

Weld County Assistant Attorney Karin McDougal, who is one of the attorneys representing Weld County Coroner Carl Blesch, filed the hearing notice Tuesday morning. The hearing about the autopsy reports for Shanann Watts, 34, and her two daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, will take place at 9 a.m. Dec. 21 before Weld District Court Judge Todd Taylor.


more in article
 
  • #652
Stomach contents has been mentioned a number of times in relation to the girls’ time of death. Unfortunately, it’s an inexact science and dependent on many things.

Knight’s Forensic Pathology:

The state of digestion, as opposed to the volume and exit of food from the stomach, is almost impossible to assess.

Variations in the type of food eaten make vast differences to the dissolution rate. Hard objects, such as nuts and seeds, resist digestion whereas soft carbohydrates can liquefy almost immediately. The size and dispersion of particles is crucial, including the amount of chewing and admixed saliva. The efficiency of the teeth and gastric acid are also of prime importance, as is the amount of liquid either in the original food or drunk during the meal. Fat and oil in the meal slow digestion and all these variables make it impossible to time the rate of digestion.

One of the most important factors in the forensic context is the effect of a physical or mental shock or stress during the digestion process as this can completely inhibit digestion. Even if one accepts an ‘average’ gastric transit time of an ‘average’ meal as being of the order of 2–3 hours, the assumption that death took place within this time can only be valid if the death was quite sudden and unexpected, with no stressful prior event.

A leading expert testified for the defence in the Pistorius trial. She said that underlying medical conditions, types of medication the person used , exercise and sleep routine can also delay gastric emptying.
 
  • #653
I’ve seen many videos of men subsequently convicted of premeditated murder pleading to the public to help find their missing wife and others sobbing at their wife’s funeral. What I have never seen is a man smiling, giggling, preening for the media and showing off his shirt. How the defence can get around this is simply beyond me.
 
  • #654
I’ve seen many videos of men subsequently convicted of premeditated murder pleading to the public to help find their missing wife and others sobbing at their wife’s funeral. What I have never seen is a man smiling, giggling, preening for the media and showing off his shirt. How the defence can get around this is simply beyond me.

I so agree with you: Even Scott Peterson and Lori Hacking's husband, and other killers made an attempt to look sad and at least act like they cared about their "missing" loved one. This turd Watts, I was aghast when he was smiling and giggling while talking about his "missing" wife. I think he was really satisfied with himself to the point he couldn't even control his glee at how smart he thought he was. I knew then and there he did something really terrible.
 
  • #655
I have often thought it might have been a scenario like you describe. It would explain the phone in the couch. Any thoughts on how her purse ended up in the kitchen? I noticed on their floorplans she would have had to walk past the stairs to get to the kitchen. Sample floorplan posted here by TheSaint: Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34
I thought her purse was by the door. I'll have to check that out. If her purse was in the kitchen, perhaps CW carried it there later looking for the phone?
 
  • #656
I’ve seen many videos of men subsequently convicted of premeditated murder pleading to the public to help find their missing wife and others sobbing at their wife’s funeral. What I have never seen is a man smiling, giggling, preening for the media and showing off his shirt. How the defence can get around this is simply beyond me.

They could try to make others believe that he was just nervous...
There are people out there who giggle or laugh at funerals and on similar occasions while they are in realty very very sad. Remembering my own mother if she had a mental breakdown . She would begin to laugh but later cry her heart out.

I would never defend this man in any way (never ever after the way he got "rid" of the bodies but this has been discussed already a thousand times) but I think they could even use this point for making him look more innocent. If he have had to hide something why wouldn't he than have played the "griefing father" instead? Or something like this... I would NOT buy this since for me he appeared to be nervous but somehow relieved. For me his smiling could have been a sign that he was happy the person who interviewed him actually really believed him and his plan seemed to work. Like ilovewings mentioned before. But other people might have just another interpretation of his body language and general appearance while being interviewed.
And there are people out there who just want to believe what they want to believe. Because it fits better in the way they see the world.
 
  • #657
The alleged male lover - approximately 10-month relationship after meeting online in June 2017.
They saw each other off and on through the spring, ending things in March or April 2018.

SW conceived at the end of April 2018.

A woman who claimed she had a six-week affair with him in May and June 2018. “He would put his hands on my throat during intercourse”.

Family confirmed CW wasn’t being himself and suspects his affair with co-worker had been going on for 6 - 10 months. (Ashleigh Banfield 10/03/18)

These are the ones we know about. All I can say is … he didn’t let the grass grow under his feet.
 
  • #658
I have often thought it might have been a scenario like you describe. It would explain the phone in the couch. Any thoughts on how her purse ended up in the kitchen? I noticed on their floorplans she would have had to walk past the stairs to get to the kitchen. Sample floorplan posted here by TheSaint: Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34
Still looking for info on purse. This article;

Shanann Watts’ girls may have been dead when she got home, husband’s charges show

Says shanann's shoes and suitcase were at the foot of the stairs and said wallet, phone, and keys were found "inside the house". I know I've read shoes, suitcase, wallet/purse were all together.
 
  • #659
Were charges updated or changed recently - I thought I read there were some changes but can not find what his current charges are.

TIA

I would think Hipaa info could either confirm or repudiate her "health challenges".

Pregnancy etc.
 
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  • #660
I have often thought it might have been a scenario like you describe. It would explain the phone in the couch. Any thoughts on how her purse ended up in the kitchen? I noticed on their floorplans she would have had to walk past the stairs to get to the kitchen. Sample floorplan posted here by TheSaint: Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34
Okay, I found an article that said the purse was found on the kitchen counter. I'll need to thinkabout it.
 
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