Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[MyBelle]

All Family Annihilators are described that way. For instance:

They were described as the perfect family: Richard and Clair, married for 13 years and with two sons, Aaron aged one and Ben, nine. Only a few weeks ago they’d posed for a family portrait and smiling into the camera they appear the epitome of a happy suburban family. Friends said that they seemed to have no problems.

In the early hours of last Saturday morning, Richard stabbed his wife and two young children on the marital bed, before setting fire to the room. He died of smoke inhalation. Detectives believe he may have been having an affair and that this may have been a factor in the tragedy.
What drives a father to kill?

All the friends described Marilyn Lemak as a great mom. Women can murder their children and many have. JMO

 

[Best of What's Around]

I doubt the shirt or the ambushing of CW with a camera in his face will be irrelevant at trial.

A friend knows only what SW told her and by that time, SW may have known about the AP. JMO

Do you think SW fabricated the photo of the text where CW says he loves the little peanut already?

I didn't see a camera in CW's face. It looked like it was on the kitchen counter.

 

[MassGuy]

Re the significance of the disposal of bodies to the trial and religious significance of desecration.

We need to keep in mind that the defence will admit body disposal and thus there will be at a basic statement of agreed facts read into evidence on that point.

So while the wording of the statute creating the offence is critical, in this case the prosecution and defence won't be contesting the meaning of those words or the basic actions.

Instead the prosecution will be using the body disposal as proven circumstantial evidence from which to infer guilt on the murder of the kids

So in that context the prosecution can indeed cast a wider net not limited to the words of the statute.

Especially in this case where the defence is bound to try to argue that CW was the model loving husband/family man.

The prosecution can legitimately argue that these are actions which no moral (or indeed christian), law abiding man would take - based upon generally accepted standards of behaviour in our society.

It is not only about the mechanics of concealment to get away with murder, but everything that implies about a lack of love, respect, morality and values

I completely agree. The prosecution will seek to prove that he was trying to conceal a crime, and by implication, conceal a crime that he alone committed.

This method of disposal will also play on the jury’s emotions, by illustrating the depths of his depravity.

Basically, no loving father does that.

 

[PommyMommy]

I doubt the shirt or the ambushing of CW with a camera in his face will be irrelevant at trial.

A friend knows only what SW told her and by that time, SW may have known about the AP. JMO

CW was ambushed? I wasn't aware of that. Is he pressing charges?
MOO

ETA: By ambushed, do you mean by the media or in the Oops, WE did it again video?

 

[PommyMommy]

All the friends described Marilyn Lemak as a great mom. Women can murder their children and many have. JMO

Did her husband then hide all the bodies?
MOO

 

[Best of What's Around]

All the friends described Marilyn Lemak as a great mom. Women can murder their children and many have. JMO

Yes, I agree that both CW and SW were considered good parents prior to the murders. Why do you think CW would have sacrificed the chance to save at least one of his children by calling an EMT to the scene before he could even think of his own well being? Why didn't CW do everything he could to save his child? I haven't heard of a non-medical professional just assuming their child was beyond help if that child just stopped breathing within the last couple minutes who had nothing to do with their harm.

 

[MassGuy]

All the friends described Marilyn Lemak as a great mom. Women can murder their children and many have. JMO

Yes they can and do, that is indisputable.

The facts of this case are damning, and they implicate one man alone.

There is zero evidence that SW was involved in any way.

Rumor, speculation, and innuendo, will never outweigh facts.

Nor should they.

 

[MyBelle]

Re the significance of the disposal of bodies to the trial and religious significance of desecration.

We need to keep in mind that the defence will admit body disposal and thus there will be at a basic statement of agreed facts read into evidence on that point.

So while the wording of the statute creating the offence is critical, in this case the prosecution and defence won't be contesting the meaning of those words or the basic actions.

Instead the prosecution will be using the body disposal as proven circumstantial evidence from which to infer guilt on the murder of the kids

So in that context the prosecution can indeed cast a wider net not limited to the words of the statute.

Especially in this case where the defence is bound to try to argue that CW was the model loving husband/family man.

The prosecution can legitimately argue that these are actions which no moral (or indeed christian), law abiding man would take - based upon generally accepted standards of behaviour in our society - if he were innocent.

It is not only about the mechanics of concealment to get away with murder, but everything that implies about a lack of love, respect, morality and values - as applied to his children.

If the prosecution has to resort to the body disposal as circumstantial evidence CW murdered the children, they better have more evidence that he murdered the children because the defense will counter that CW panicked because he thought LE wouldn't believe him. They will also drag SW's character, medical history, text messages, social media, etc. into evidence. This defense intends to put up a fight if there isn't a plea deal. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

If the prosecution has to resort to the body disposal as circumstantial evidence CW murdered the children, they better have more evidence that he murdered the children because the defense will counter that CW panicked because he thought LE wouldn't believe him. They will also drag SW's character, medical history, text messages, social media, etc. into evidence. This defense intends to put up a fight if there isn't a plea deal. JMO

The body disposal is tremendous circumstantial evidence of his guilt. That alone, convinces me. “Consciousness of guilt” is powerful evidence.

No innocent man, EVER, has resorted to those types of measures and not been the guilty party.

Not once.

There will be more evidence than that though. Likely much more.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, I agree that both CW and SW were considered good parents prior to the murders. Why do you think CW would have sacrificed the chance to save at least one of his children by calling an EMT to the scene before he could even think of his own well being? Why didn't CW do everything he could to save his child? I haven't heard of a non-medical professional just assuming their child was beyond help if that child just stopped breathing within the last couple minutes who had nothing to do with their harm.

We don't know what CW did or did not do. I think he may have tried CPR and had no luck and that's why he didn't call 911. Even if EMS responded, that long without oxygenated blood to the brain would certainly mean brain death. CW knew police would not believe his story and he was right. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

There's likely a digital footprint. If there is, I don't know what the digital footprint will reveal, if it will reveal anything, or if a suicide note, goodbye letter or explanation exists. I was only speculating and at this point I'm wishing I would have sat on my hands. Which I will likely do now until more comes out.
jmo

This is an unusual assumption, I am sorry to say.

First, why should we even think that there is a suicide note? SW was the mother of two kids, pregnant, and very organized. In this day and age, if she felt suicidal when pregnant, she’d definitely seek help. In what form, seeing a counselor, a pastor, or a doctor, I don’t know, but she’d do something. I doubt there will be any note.

Second, she was the person glued to her SM. I can imagine her making a video or a post on FB, too, and for sure, people would instantly respond, but we have nothing.

So, I think one should drop this idea.

 

[MyBelle]

The body disposal is tremendous circumstantial evidence of his guilt. That alone, convinces me. “Consciousness of guilt” is powerful evidence.

No innocent man, EVER, has resorted to those types of measures and not been the guilty party.

Not once.

There will be more evidence than that though. Likely much more.

There's a first time for everything. We still haven't seen the autopsy reports which are also compelling circumstantial evidence. JMO

 

[idfinch]

You have to really dislike a murder victim to attempt to discredit or manipulate not only her own words and actions about loving and protecting her children, but attempt to discredit the words and actions of LE, the DA, the state, her friends including NUA and AT, her doctor’s office... even CW’s own words, but just about things like wanting the baby, not about murdering his family. And that’s just off the top of my head.

I’ll never understand why this is the preferable viewpoint unless there’s an agenda because it defies any and all logic but spite.

JMO.

 

[Best of What's Around]

If the prosecution has to resort to the body disposal as circumstantial evidence CW murdered the children, they better have more evidence that he murdered the children because the defense will counter that CW panicked because he thought LE wouldn't believe him. They will also drag SW's character, medical history, text messages, social media, etc. into evidence. This defense intends to put up a fight if there isn't a plea deal. JMO

What does it say about CW's character that he thought of himself before saving the lives of his children?

Do you think CW planned to let his parents suffer with the anguish of not knowing what happened to their grandchildren for the rest of their living days? What does that say about CW's character?

Why did CW need to "dispose" of his children's bodies if he did not kill them? Why not just dispose of his wife and say she killed the kids and ran off?

 

[MassGuy]

There's a first time for everything. We still haven't seen the autopsy reports which are also compelling circumstantial evidence. JMO

I look forward to those. But I’m not expecting much.

We’ll learn cause of death, and possibly learn about the damage he inflicted on their bodies, postmortem.

Likely not much more than that.

 

[Best of What's Around]

You have to really dislike a murder victim to attempt to discredit or manipulate not only her own words and actions about loving and protecting her children, but attempt to discredit the words and actions of LE, the DA, the state, her friends including NUA and AT, her doctor’s office... even CW’s own words, but just about things like wanting the baby, not about murdering his family. And that’s just off the top of my head.

I’ll never understand why this the preferable viewpoint unless there’s an agenda because it defies any and all logic but spite.

JMO.

Good point. Why is it everyone else's fault but CW? Even for his own actions?

 

[MyBelle]

This is an unusual assumption, I am sorry to say.

First, why should we even think that there is a suicide note? SW was the mother of two kids, pregnant, and very organized. In this day and age, if she felt suicidal when pregnant, she’d definitely seek help. In what form, seeing a counselor, a pastor, or a doctor, I don’t know, but she’d do something. I doubt there will be any note.

Second, she was the person glued to her SM. I can imagine her making a video or a post on FB, too, and for sure, people would instantly respond, but we have nothing.

So, I think one should drop this idea.

Unfortunately, we don't know what SW would do if she were suicidal but if she were, she may very well have reached out to someone and that is a possibility. I don't think she would post it on social media for all to see, however. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

The body disposal is tremendous circumstantial evidence of his guilt. That alone, convinces me. “Consciousness of guilt” is powerful evidence.

No innocent man, EVER, has resorted to those types of measures and not been the guilty party.

Not once.

There will be more evidence than that though. Likely much more.

Agree 100%

 

[Best of What's Around]

We don't know what CW did or did not do. I think he may have tried CPR and had no luck and that's why he didn't call 911. Even if EMS responded, that long without oxygenated blood to the brain would certainly mean brain death. CW knew police would not believe his story and he was right. JMO

So EMS has never saved someone who stopped breathing?

CW knew police would not believe his story but the autopsy report will show he didn't do it? How do you reconcile these two statements?

 

[MyBelle]

What does it say about CW's character that he thought of himself before saving the lives of his children?

Do you think CW planned to let his parents suffer with the anguish of not knowing what happened to their grandchildren for the rest of their living days? What does that say about CW's character?

Why did CW need to "dispose" of his children's bodies if he did not kill them? Why not just dispose of his wife and say she killed the kids and ran off?

I didn't say CW thought of himself before saving the lives of his children. That's your assumption and opinion and we will agree to disagree. JMO