Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[molly1255]

This.

I'm sorry for saying this, but look at that jacka**. It's still unbelievable to me that he was able to actually smile.

 

[molly1255]

And then their son-in-law wouldn't answer or return their calls?

I didn't think about it, but it's possible they may have tried to call him and he wouldn't take or return their calls. I can see that from him.

 

[Seattle1]

I have a problem with CW hiding the phone. Not hiding it per se, but why would he hide it, and why the sofa? If he wanted to hide it, why not put it in her purse on the kitchen counter? Or put it in the suit case? Or in a drawer. But, why would he hide it? He didn't expect anyone in the house and he left it locked tighter than a drum. If he did hide it, why the sofa?

We can probably speculate different theories about the phone. Personally, I don't know how many times I've found remote and/or phone between the sofa cushions! SW was said to be one of the kindest, most considerate women around. At 2 am, what if she still wasn't feeling well, and decided to take a rest on the sofa not to disturb her husband, tossing and turning and/or getting up to restroom. CW could have seen it in the sofa and left it there intentionally believing that was a good place to keep it out of sight. We know CW was never able to enter the house alone as he had LE and NUA with him when he unlocked the door.

 

[pocketaccent]

I have a problem with CW hiding the phone. Not hiding it per se, but why would he hide it, and why the sofa? If he wanted to hide it, why not put it in her purse on the kitchen counter? Or put it in the suit case? Or in a drawer. But, why would he hide it? He didn't expect anyone in the house and he left it locked tighter than a drum. If he did hide it, why the sofa?

Maybe her phone kept beeping when he was busy killing them or wrapping them up. So he took a break, got her phone from the bedroom, sat on the sofa, read text messages, then haphazardly left it there on the sofa, not even realizing it ended up in between the cushions or pillows.

(Her parents may have been texting continually because SW had promised she will text them once she safely arrived home and she never got a chance to text them.)
~speculation~

 

[molly1255]

I have a problem with CW hiding the phone. Not hiding it per se, but why would he hide it, and why the sofa? If he wanted to hide it, why not put it in her purse on the kitchen counter? Or put it in the suit case? Or in a drawer. But, why would he hide it? He didn't expect anyone in the house and he left it locked tighter than a drum. If he did hide it, why the sofa?

It will be interesting to find out why it was there. I've thought it possible that SW may have fallen asleep on the sofa upstairs after she came home that night and her if she had cell phone with her, it may have slipped between the cushions.

He may not have realized it was there, or even thought about it, and was focused on getting them to the work site so he could hide them. There were numerous things he didn't take care of at the house and he also left a very detectable shallow grave at the work site, too.

Although he was evil and dangerous, it doesn't appear to me that he was overly bright, JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I didn't think about it, but it's possible they may have tried to call him and he wouldn't take or return their calls. I can see that from him.

I believe he only answered NUA call because he saw that she was at the front door on his door ring ap.

 

[MassGuy]

I believe he only answered NUA call because he saw that she was at the front door on his door ring ap.

Yes. He had to answer the phone in order to delay her from calling the police. He failed.

 

[Gardener1850]

I have a problem with CW hiding the phone. Not hiding it per se, but why would he hide it, and why the sofa? If he wanted to hide it, why not put it in her purse on the kitchen counter? Or put it in the suit case? Or in a drawer. But, why would he hide it? He didn't expect anyone in the house and he left it locked tighter than a drum. If he did hide it, why the sofa?

I agree. I think he didn't know where the phone ended up or else he might have tried to use it to throw NUA off. BTW, thanks for answering last thread about the purse. I'm way behind on reading the Watts thread but I am still thinking about the purse location. I wonder if SW's purse could have ended up in the kitchen because CW was looking through it for her phone? But then I'm not sure if that really works either because he left the purse at the house rather than take it and hide it with Shanann. I guess he wasn't too concerned about making it look like she walked away. He must have thought he an the entire day and could stage things after work. I wonder where SW normally left her purse at night? Do we know?

 

[Thepoet]

I agree. I think he didn't know where the phone ended up or else he might have tried to use it to throw NUA off. BTW, thanks for answering last thread about the purse. I'm way behind on reading the Watts thread but I am still thinking about the purse location. I wonder if SW's purse could have ended up in the kitchen because CW was looking through it for her phone? But then I'm not sure if that really works either because he left the purse at the house rather than take it and hide it with Shanann. I guess he wasn't too concerned about making it look like she walked away. He must have thought he an the entire day and could stage things after work. I wonder where SW normally left her purse at night? Do we know?

I don't think we know where she kept her purse. Others here said; maybe no place special. I'm still thinking about it and researching. Like you I get behind and race to catch up. Good thoughts, thanks.

 

[molly1255]

Does anyone else think the AP may have given CW an ultimatum after learning SW returned to their home in Colorado after the NC trip?

I do.

 

[Thepoet]

It will be interesting to find out why it was there. I've thought it possible that SW may have fallen asleep on the sofa upstairs after she came home that night and her if she had cell phone with her, it may have slipped between the cushions.

He may not have realized it was there, or even thought about it, and was focused on getting them to the work site so he could hide them. There were numerous things he didn't take care of at the house and he also left a very detectable shallow grave at the work site, too.

Although he was evil and dangerous, it doesn't appear to me that he was overly bright, JMO.

You may be right and if she was sleeping on sofa, he may have attacked her there. He isn't anywhere near as bright as he thinks he is!

 

[PajamaSleuth]

IMO, he thought he would have more time to set the scene. He didn’t expect NUA to be so proactive. He may even have believed that the police would not take a missing persons report for 48 hours, like on tv.

IMO Hiding the bodies was of primary importance. He expected to “stage the scene” after work. When he realized police were at the house, he made up the lie about not being able to get them in the house (key pad broken??)

When he got home, I believe he entered the house first. Found the phone and slid it into the cushions because it was convenient/ would not draw too much attention In his mind.

 

[DexterMorgan]

He has not even entered a plea yet. There's only been an advisement. Not an arraignment.

He's been arrested since August. So why hasn't he pleaded 1 of the 4 yet?

Guilty, Not Guilty, No Contest, or Not Guilty due to reasonable insanity?

What are they waiting for?

 

[MassGuy]

Does anyone else think the AP may have given CW an ultimatum after learning SW returned to their home in Colorado after the NC trip?

I do.

Absolutely possible. It could have served as a trigger for the events that unfolded.

 

[Thepoet]

Maybe her phone kept beeping when he was busy killing them or wrapping them up. So he took a break, got her phone from the bedroom, sat on the sofa, read text messages, then haphazardly left it there on the sofa, not even realizing it ended up in between the cushions or pillows.

(Her parents may have been texting continually because SW had promised she will text them once she safely arrived home and she never got a chance to text them.)
~speculation~

That's a very good point. It makes sense. Friends and family wanting to know if she was home safe!

 

[MyBelle]

Yes. This is not an example of a female family annihilator who showed no signs of mental health issues or instability prior to the killings. She showed a lot:

1. Admitted to friends that she had to seek psychiatric help "for the stress of raising the children."

2. Was suffering major depression before the murders.

3. Actually had a prescription for a sedative at the time of the murders.

4. Showed public anger and unravelling over her husband's affair.

5. Had revealed to her husband that "she was afraid she might hurt the kids."

There were plenty of signs. As there typically are in such cases.

Nothing thus far fits a female family annihilator but everything fits the other way around.

Lemak's friends and husband sure didn't agree with the defense's theory that she was showing signs she was capable of harming her children. They all made that abundantly clear in their testimony at trial. The jury concluded Lemak was a bitter, controlling, manipulative woman who wanted to punish the children's father for dating again. I believe it very possible the same motive happened in this case. JMO

Lemak is no different than FA killers Chris Coleman or Chris Vaughn just to name two. Coleman murdered his wife because his wealthy employer didn't believe in divorce and he didn't want to get fired. Vaughn murdered his family because he wanted to move to Canada and live off the grid. None of these killers meet the definition of insane. They knew it was wrong.

Lemak had medication for depression as do millions of Americans who don't decide to kill their children. Her friends testified at trial:

Lemak's close friend Tammy Bottigliero said she noticed how distant Marilyn was and sought to cheer her up by offering a quick trip to a restaurant or shopping. Lemak declined.

"Then I said, `Do you want me to take the kids?'" Bottigliero told a DuPage County jury Thursday. This time, Lemak's answer was emphatic and curt. "She said, `No!' ... It was the last time I saw her."

That brief exchange--just hours before Lemak drugged and suffocated her three children--haunts Bottigliero. "It's something that I still remember to this day," she testified on the third day of Lemak's trial.


The recollections and regrets of Bottigliero and others in Lemak's inner circle filled the courtroom.

Testimony from women who Lemak saw daily suggested there were clues her life was coming undone before the killings, but nothing to indicate she would take the lives of Emily and her brothers, Nicholas, 7, and Thomas, 3, on March 4, 1999.

Lemak's friends saw anguish before killings

 

[Thepoet]

Does anyone else think the AP may have given CW an ultimatum after learning SW returned to their home in Colorado after the NC trip?

I do.

Yes, I do. I believe it was part of the catalyst. He's not a good liar, though he thinks he is, and he probably lied to AP too!

 

[maeleemae]

I've seen a man's face turn a ghastly blue while he was choking on a bite of steak in a restaurant at a party. A doctor nearby tried everything to save him and he died right there. That is not something I will ever forget seeing. I was told the blue color was from lack of oxygenated blood. Not long after that, my dad's lips had a blueish color. I took him to the doctor and he needed a quintuple bypass. Scary stuff indeed. JMO

You probably saved your dad’s life. I think that bluish color comes quickly when the brain is deprived of oxygen. Scary indeed!

 

[Thepoet]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my posts, gives me lots to think about. Tomorrow, over coffee.

Good night. Be well and safe.

 

[Best of What's Around]

He's been arrested since August. So why hasn't he pleaded 1 of the 4 yet?

Guilty, Not Guilty, No Contest, or Not Guilty due to reasonable insanity?

What are they waiting for?

IMO to drag it out as looooooong as possible.