Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[katydid23]

I can't imagine which type of person the defense will look for on the jury. If only they could sort for those who write murderers in jail with kind words and marriage proposals.

They want people like Casey Anthony had on her jury. People who don't read the news and who cant 'connect the dots.' People who think 'reasonable doubt' means any sliver of a doubt.

 

[MyBelle]

Are states that consider tampering with, moving, concealing, or otherwise desecrating a body serious felonies somehow on a "religious high horse"? Or do you think there are valid reasons to consider these acts as crimes, besides just being disrespectful and far outside the cultural bounds of decency? Reasons like preventing determination of cause/manner/time of death; possibility of spreading disease/other health risks by improperly handling the body after death; possible psychological damage to someone stumbling upon a discarded/decomposing body; legal ramifications such as estate/financial issues or fraud (social security, etc.) if the body is concealed. It is also a VERY BIG CLUE towards consciousness of guilt on the part of the concealer/desecrator. Perhaps not evidence (though it very well could be, IANAL and do not know the rules of evidence), but gives investigators a very strong indication that this person is not operating with normal parameters and is the most logical/reasonable starting point for a murder investigation. In this case, when you factor in the desecrator has admitted to premeditated murder of two human beings (he could have stopped anytime during the several minutes it took to kill SW and her child, so most definitely premeditated); lied for several days to family, friends, media, LE, and the public about the whereabouts of his family; showed no signs of remorse, sadness, or concern; and all of the rest of the inconsistencies and tells, not to mention everything else that we are not privy to that allowed the prosecution to quickly and confidently file nine counts against him, I dont think the jury will have to rely too heavily on the fact that he desecrated his victims' bodies to conclude guilt on all counts. MOO.

Chris Watts is not charged with "desecrating a human body." He's charged with 3 counts of:
COUNT 7
-
TAMPERING WITH A DECEASED HUMAN BODY (F3)
On or about August 13, 2018,
Christopher Lee Watts
, believing that an official
proceeding was pending, in progress, or about to be instituted, and acting without legal
right or authority, unlawfully and feloniously willfully destroyed, mutilated, concealed,
removed, or altered a human body, part of a huma
n body, or human remains with intent
to impair its or their appearance or availability in the official proceedings; in violation of
section 18
-
8
-
610.5, C.R.S
COUNT 7
-
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user.../2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

 

[DexterMorgan]

A plea deal would result in the release of the autopsy report but what it would prevent is SW's character being dragged through the mud at trial and her medical records becoming public. JMO

Wouldn't he still have to tell each murder? Like on this day I did this by doing that. Etc etc.

 

[gitana1]

But these two cases are not very similar.


But there was also testimony that Lemak appeared depressed and upset in the days before her children's deaths.

Lemark told her friend she was WORRIED SHE MIGHT HARM HER CHILDREN.


Another friend called by prosecutors, Karen Marposon, said Lemak told her that night that she had once revealed to her husband that "she was afraid she might hurt the kids."


Lemark was seeking help for stress from raising the children:

The usually polished woman--a sort of queen bee among her friends--admitted to them for the first time that she'd sought psychiatric help for the stress of raising the children.

Also:

On March 3, 1999 -- the day before Lemak is accused of drugging and suffocating her children in their Naperville home -- Hahn-Baiyor said she ran into her as the two volunteered at their children's school. Lemak was in tears.

"She was visibly upset, crying (and) shaking," Hahn-Baiyor said. "I asked her what was wrong, and she said she saw Dave's girlfriend's car parked outside his rental house."


Lemak's friends saw anguish before killings - Chicago Tribune

www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2001-11-30-0111300205-story.html

Yes. I don't get the debate. That is another clear case of multiple signs of instability prior to the annihilation. There is zero evidence of that here when it comes to SW. There is no evidence she was under a psychiatrist's care because she needed help dealing with her kids. No accounts of her being enraged or unhinged or losing it over the affair or anything else. A calm "I'm going to need a friend" if she said something like that, does not suffice.

There are zero accounts of her threatening to harm herself or her children.

Instead, by all accounts she was acting normally and stable in the weeks leading up to the murders.

It's not close to a match. Instead, that case proves the point that female family annihilators show serious signs of mental illness and/or rage issues and instability shortly prior to the murders.

 

[NuttMegg]

So if someone has to make plans for the disposal of their child or grandchild, it doesn't matter how it is done?

It's just 'whatever' ---that baby is dead. Who cares what happens to their carcass?

The most bizarre and farfetched excuses coming out for cw. I don't get it, and doubt very much that if a murder occurred in their own family, and the murderer threw the bodies in vats of oil, or in acid as happened to that journalist, that these people would be indifferent or even blase about their own loved ones being treated so as to conceal blame and evidence. But if cw does it, no biggie.

 

[gitana1]

I'm sorry for your sad memory. What you say is true. I lost my 37 year old daughter unexpectedly and I know full well how family reacts. We all act differently, but there is also a common thread of shock, loss, and disbelief. He had none of that, more like relief, joy, duper's delight, and smug satisfaction. I watched one of the videos again last night and I never saw a grieving husband and father, not really a husband or father of any type.

Hugs to you.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Chris Watts is not charged with "desecrating a human body." He's charged with 3 counts of:
COUNT 7
-
TAMPERING WITH A DECEASED HUMAN BODY (F3)
On or about August 13, 2018,
Christopher Lee Watts
, believing that an official
proceeding was pending, in progress, or about to be instituted, and acting without legal
right or authority, unlawfully and feloniously willfully destroyed, mutilated, concealed,
removed, or altered a human body, part of a huma
n body, or human remains with intent
to impair its or their appearance or availability in the official proceedings; in violation of
section 18
-
8
-
610.5, C.R.S
COUNT 7
-
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

It amounts to the same thing IMO, mutilating, altering or destroying a human body = desecration.

 

[katydid23]

There was talk about a garbage bag being found at the site where the bodies were found, with a foot print or partial foot print, not sure which now. The prosecution then requested CW foot prints, DNA ect.

And the defense tried to block the request for footprints. Which leads me to believe that was his garbage bag and his footprint. Otherwise, if it was someone else's, it would be a huge gift to the defense.

 

[gitana1]

The point I'm getting from it is that the body turns blue (or even black, as maeleemae points out) while it is deprived of oxygen, but still ALIVE. It is a vital reaction. After death (or resuscitation) the body exhibits pallor, or returns to normal. The body does not remain blue once the oxygen supply has returned to normal, or the body is no longer able to sustain a vital reaction because of death.

Hence, after Shanann ALLEGEDLY (according to CW's bullcrap story) left Bella to go to CeCe, Bella would not still be blue unless she was still alive. And if she was still alive she would not just have died alone.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm learning (as I do in every case!).

I think that's true. However what I cited to awhile ago that another poster mentioned many threads back is that several hours after death (I believe), the body, especially extremities, can turn blue. So either he saw his child turn blue before she was dead or he saw her awhile after death.

 

[MassGuy]

It amounts to the same thing IMO, mutilating, altering or destroying a human body = desecration.

Exactly. There is a law that he violated that has a specific definition.

We are talking about what he actually did to those bodies, ie. desecration.

Apparently there is some confusion.

 

[MsBetsy]

Chris Watts is not charged with "desecrating a human body." He's charged with 3 counts of:
COUNT 7
-
TAMPERING WITH A DECEASED HUMAN BODY (F3)
On or about August 13, 2018,
Christopher Lee Watts
, believing that an official
proceeding was pending, in progress, or about to be instituted, and acting without legal
right or authority, unlawfully and feloniously willfully destroyed, mutilated, concealed,
removed, or altered a human body, part of a huma
n body, or human remains with intent
to impair its or their appearance or availability in the official proceedings; in violation of
section 18
-
8
-
610.5, C.R.S
COUNT 7
-
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

Yes, and that includes disrespectful or destructive handling of a body. Imo

 

[Best of What's Around]

It amounts to the same thing IMO, mutilating, altering or destroying a human body = desecration.

Agreed. According to Merriam-Webster:

Definition of desecrate


1 : to violate the sanctity of : profane desecrate a shrine a cemetery desecrated by vandals

2 : to treat disrespectfully, irreverently, or outrageously

 

[gitana1]

I agree. I think he may have killed them at bedtime (around 6:30/7pm) when it was naturally still light enough to have noticed their color. I'm not sure if Shanann would have gone in to see the girls when she came home so tired, if they had awoken she would then have to get them back to sleep which would delay her then being able to get right to sleep.

I will never believe a mom who had been gone for days would fail to visually check her kids upon return. It's the first thing she would have done, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Why exactly do you expect SW's character will be dragged through the mud at trial? What evidence have I missed? I'm asking as one that's only seen a loving wife, mother, and friend.

If there is evidence from the autopsy reports that SW killed her children then her character absolutely will be dragged through the mud at a trial. I can also see the Prosecutor wanting avoid it.

I never met SW or CW so I don't know what went on when the camera wasn't filming. JMO

 

[molly1255]

He couldn't answer because he wouldn't know what to say when they'd ask to speak to their daughter or grandkids. What excuse could he give? I don't know where they are?

Very true. They were the very last people on earth that he would have wanted to talk to and NUA likely was likely a close runner-up.

And he couldn't ignore NUA. Through Ring, he could see she was at his front door and I think he may have also known that she had actually unlocked the front door. She would have been inside that house if not for the inside door latch. What a fright that might have been for him!

 

[PommyMommy]

desecrate
verb

des· e· crate | \ˈde-si-ˌkrāt \
desecrated; desecrating
Definition of desecrate

transitive verb

1: to violate the sanctity of : PROFANE desecrate a shrinea cemetery desecrated by vandals

2: to treat disrespectfully, irreverently, or outrageously… the kind of shore development … that has desecrated so many waterfronts …— John Fischer

Definition of DESECRATE

Yes, CW desecrated the bodies of his wife, unborn child, and his daughters.

MOO

 

[mickey2942]

They want people like Casey Anthony had on her jury. People who don't read the news and who cant 'connect the dots.' People who think 'reasonable doubt' means any sliver of a doubt.

I believe that shows like SVU, Criminal Minds, have created a mentality in people, that every single thing will be checked off, and tied up with a bow. They want to see video, concrete, conclusive evidence, proof and information. The ability to make a reasonable inference on details, and independent conclusions of evidence presented is beyond their grasp and conceptual cognition.

They felt that if they didn't have direct evidence, which I believe that there was plenty, that they could not convict. The issue of the death penalty was probably the problem there. Even though the sentencing phase was separate, I don't think that the jury felt that they could convict unless it was beyond reasonable doubt. At least Casey Anthony had a jury of her peers, only one person had a college degree. Several were unemployed.

CW's "Dream Jury", would be men who don't like untraditional women, older women, who have sons, single men.

 

[Johnny1181]

It seems like there are so many baseless insinuations being made about Shanann's character with absolutely no foundation.

On the other hand, CW has proven himself to be a murderer, liar, cheater, and capable of carrying his babies up ladders to dump them in oil and throwing dirt over the wife he strangled and unborn son. And I don't even need to bring up the interviews....it's so sick and twisted.
jmo

 

[MyBelle]

It amounts to the same thing IMO, mutilating, altering or destroying a human body = desecration.

No, it isn't the same thing. CW isn't charged with desecration nor abuse of a corpse which are covered under other statutes.
2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 9 - :: Offenses Against Public Peace, Order, and Decency :: Part 1 - :: Public Peace and Order :: § 18-9-113. Desecration of venerated objects

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 13 - :: Miscellaneous Offenses :: § 18-13-101. Abuse of a corpse

 

[ZsaZsa]

Chris Watts is not charged with "desecrating a human body." He's charged with 3 counts of:
COUNT 7
-
TAMPERING WITH A DECEASED HUMAN BODY (F3)
On or about August 13, 2018,
Christopher Lee Watts
, believing that an official
proceeding was pending, in progress, or about to be instituted, and acting without legal
right or authority, unlawfully and feloniously willfully destroyed, mutilated, concealed,
removed, or altered a human body, part of a huma
n body, or human remains with intent
to impair its or their appearance or availability in the official proceedings; in violation of
section 18
-
8
-
610.5, C.R.S
COUNT 7
-
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

He is charged with 'destroying, mutilating, altering' that means the same thing as desecrating.