Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[Mellowmelly]

If there is evidence from the autopsy reports that SW killed her children then her character absolutely will be dragged through the mud at a trial. I can also see the Prosecutor wanting avoid it.

I never met SW or CW so I don't know what went on when the camera wasn't filming. JMO

From the evidence we’ve heard about so far, there is nothing that points to SW murdering her kids. You seem like a very intelligent woman with great knowledge of the law and you are entitled to your opinion but I don’t believe you really think SW killed her girls. It’s ok to play devils advocate though.

 

[Best of What's Around]

If there is evidence from the autopsy reports that SW killed her children then her character absolutely will be dragged through the mud at a trial. I can also see the Prosecutor wanting avoid it.

I never met SW or CW so I don't know what went on when the camera wasn't filming. JMO

I do not believe there is evidence in the autopsy reports that SW killed the children. If there was, the defense would have had a much stronger reaction to the prosecution's attempt to keep the autopsy sealed IMO. The defense would have requested a bail hearing, IMO. The charges would be amended/dropped IMO. In my opinion, in line with the Thayers who DID know them both and opened their home to CW on his last night before being arrested, CW is the sole murderer in the family. They were HORRIFIED that they let CW sleep in close proximity to their 5 year old daughter. So yes, we do not know them, but the Thayers did and were arguably the closest to CW in that last 24 hours before his arrest. IMO.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Chris Watts is not charged with "desecrating a human body." He's charged with 3 counts of:
COUNT 7
-
TAMPERING WITH A DECEASED HUMAN BODY (F3)
On or about August 13, 2018,
Christopher Lee Watts
, believing that an official
proceeding was pending, in progress, or about to be instituted, and acting without legal
right or authority, unlawfully and feloniously willfully destroyed, mutilated, concealed,
removed, or altered a human body, part of a huma
n body, or human remains with intent
to impair its or their appearance or availability in the official proceedings; in violation of
section 18
-
8
-
610.5, C.R.S
COUNT 7
-
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

It is my opinion, and that of most reasonable people, that "destroying, mutilating, concealing, removing, or altering" a human body is desecration.

 

[Mellowmelly]

No, it isn't the same thing. CW isn't charged with desecration nor abuse of a corpse which are covered under other statutes.
2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 9 - :: Offenses Against Public Peace, Order, and Decency :: Part 1 - :: Public Peace and Order :: § 18-9-113. Desecration of venerated objects

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 13 - :: Miscellaneous Offenses :: § 18-13-101. Abuse of a corpse

So mutilation of a corpse would not be classed as abuse of a corpse ?

 

[molly1255]

My thinking meter went off when he said the night that they were gone, he had all the lights on in the house. My thoughts at that time and still now are that he had the lights on to cover his tracks from anybody that might be looking from the outside as to what room he may be in at the time. With all the lights on, perhaps nobody knew which room he was in at the time.

I think the house was being watched by LE, too, and probably all night long. By 7 a.m. Tueday, the Frederick PD knew SW and the girls never came home and they called in CBI and FBI.

 

[Johnny1181]

No, it isn't the same thing. CW isn't charged with desecration nor abuse of a corpse which are covered under other statutes.
2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 9 - :: Offenses Against Public Peace, Order, and Decency :: Part 1 - :: Public Peace and Order :: § 18-9-113. Desecration of venerated objects

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 13 - :: Miscellaneous Offenses :: § 18-13-101. Abuse of a corpse

So does this make him less guilty or his heinous acts less outrageous in your opinion?

 

[Best of What's Around]

No, it isn't the same thing. CW isn't charged with desecration nor abuse of a corpse which are covered under other statutes.
2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 9 - :: Offenses Against Public Peace, Order, and Decency :: Part 1 - :: Public Peace and Order :: § 18-9-113. Desecration of venerated objects

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 13 - :: Miscellaneous Offenses :: § 18-13-101. Abuse of a corpse

What they charged him with and what we are using, the common definition of desecration are not mutually exclusive IMO. They likely charged him with what best fit the intended purpose of the crime - to obstruct justice/tamper with evidence. Does not mean it was not offensive, disrespectful, et al = the definition of desecration.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't think anyone here is saying CW desecrated the bodies for the fun of it. Yes, it was to conceal a crime and tamper with evidence. That doesn't mean it is something any loving parent looking to cover for themselves would do. It was heinous and shocking to most people. IMO.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Chris Watts is not charged with "desecrating a human body." He's charged with 3 counts of:
COUNT 7
-
TAMPERING WITH A DECEASED HUMAN BODY (F3)
On or about August 13, 2018,
Christopher Lee Watts
, believing that an official
proceeding was pending, in progress, or about to be instituted, and acting without legal
right or authority, unlawfully and feloniously willfully destroyed, mutilated, concealed,
removed, or altered a human body, part of a huma
n body, or human remains with intent
to impair its or their appearance or availability in the official proceedings; in violation of
section 18
-
8
-
610.5, C.R.S
COUNT 7
-
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

D. For purposes of this section, “desecration of a human corpse” means any act committed after the death of a human being including, but not limited to, dismemberment, disfigurement, mutilation, burning, or any act committed to cause the dead body to be devoured, scattered or dissipated; except, those procedures performed by a state agency or licensed authority in due course of its duties and responsibilities for forensic examination, gathering or removing crime scene evidence, presentation or preservation of evidence, dead body identification, cause of death, autopsy, cremation or burial, organ donation, use of a cadaver for medical educational purposes, or other necessary procedures to identify, remove or dispose of a dead body by the proper authority.

2014 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 21. Crimes and Punishments :: §21-1161.1. Desecration of a human corpse - Penalty - Prosecution with other offenses - Definition.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

double post

 

[mickey2942]

Either way, CW didn't think how people would react to placing toddlers in oil tanks. It is beyond depraved and heinous. Only a psychopath monster would do this. It really clarifies, that his family had zero meaning to him. His only thought was, "Gee, this would be a great place to hide the bodies.". That was the thought process.

Even if he doesn't get convicted for killing his children, he flat out killed his pregnant wife, and hid the evidence.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Yes. I don't get the debate. That is another clear case of multiple signs of instability prior to the annihilation. There is zero evidence of that here when it comes to SW. There is no evidence she was under a psychiatrist's care because she needed help dealing with her kids. No accounts of her being enraged or unhinged or losing it over the affair or anything else. A calm "I'm going to need a friend" if she said something like that, does not suffice.

There are zero accounts of her threatening to harm herself or her children.

Instead, by all accounts she was acting normally and stable in the weeks leading up to the murders.

It's not close to a match. Instead, that case proves the point that female family annihilators show serious signs of mental illness and/or rage issues and instability shortly prior to the murders.

I agree! If SW was in such a state, she would never have gone to the Thrive conference/retreat. She wouldn't be able to function normally, she would've taken the children's lives and her own while CW was away from the house if this was her plan.

CW talking about separation isn't the be-all and end-all of a marriage/relationship, SW still had fight in her to win him back, imo. It's not close to a divorce and a separation of months to let emotions become unstable, no legal documents signed, CW wasn't shacked up with his lover and flaunting his new found freedom to all and sundry. Nothing concrete yet for SW to become enraged about and immediately kill her daughters in the middle of the night! (I doubt this was even a thought in her head.)

It was CW who felt trapped, ultimatums were being made, he ceased caring for his family and sadly, even more so for his children, the apple of SW's eye, everything was about them! They had to go and CW seemed relieved, imo, in those porch interviews.
If CW cared so much for his darling daughters that he killed their killer, there isn't a logical reason to proceed with a cover up. JMO

 

[gitana1]

I believe that shows like SVU, Criminal Minds, have created a mentality in people, that every single thing will be checked off, and tied up with a bow. They want to see video, concrete, conclusive evidence, proof and information. The ability to make a reasonable inference on details, and independent conclusions of evidence presented is beyond their grasp and conceptual cognition.

They felt that if they didn't have direct evidence, which I believe that there was plenty, that they could not convict. The issue of the death penalty was probably the problem there. Even though the sentencing phase was separate, I don't think that the jury felt that they could convict unless it was beyond reasonable doubt. At least Casey Anthony had a jury of her peers, only one person had a college degree. Several were unemployed.

CW's "Dream Jury", would be men who don't like untraditional women, older women, who have sons, single men.

I don't believe it had one thing to do with the death penalty. It had to do with being sequestered and wanting to go home.

The sequestration of that jury was like jail. Comfortable beds and private showed but otherwise extremely punitive and restrictive.

Any finding of guilt of a felony would've led to many more days of sentencing phase. They were done.

I will never forget how one woman talked about how they looked wistfully down at the pool they could never use (they apparently weren't allowed to mingle with anyone except each other).

That jury had multiple options available that had zero to do with the death penalty. Second degree murder. Voluntary manslaughter. Third degree felony murder. Aggravated manslaughter. Aggravated child abuse. Child neglect even.

They didn't pick one of those many lesser includeds because each one involved a sentencing phase that was expected to take several more days or even weeks.

They were done.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Either way, CW didn't think how people would react to placing toddlers in oil tanks. It is beyond depraved and heinous. Only a psychopath monster would do this. It really clarifies, that his family had zero meaning to him. His only thought was, "Gee, this would be a great place to hide the bodies.". That was the thought process.

Even if he doesn't get convicted for killing his children, he flat out killed his pregnant wife, and hid the evidence.

And was just fine with letting his parents and everyone in his world, the community, etc, search and worry with anguish over his "missing" family for the remainder of their living days, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

He is charged with 'destroying, mutilating, altering' that means the same thing as desecrating.

The statute uses the exact words it means to use. The "same thing" is your opinion. Desecrate has religious connotations that I do not wish to debate.

D. For purposes of this section, “desecration of a human corpse” means any act committed after the death of a human being including, but not limited to, dismemberment, disfigurement, mutilation, burning, or any act committed to cause the dead body to be devoured, scattered or dissipated; except, those procedures performed by a state agency or licensed authority in due course of its duties and responsibilities for forensic examination, gathering or removing crime scene evidence, presentation or preservation of evidence, dead body identification, cause of death, autopsy, cremation or burial, organ donation, use of a cadaver for medical educational purposes, or other necessary procedures to identify, remove or dispose of a dead body by the proper authority.

2014 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 21. Crimes and Punishments :: §21-1161.1. Desecration of a human corpse - Penalty - Prosecution with other offenses - Definition.

CW is charged under Colorado statutes.

 

[katydid23]

CNN.com - Transcripts
WATTS: Yes, because her flight got delayed from Arizona because like other storms around the nation. She was supposed to get home at 11:00. She got home like about 1:48. I left for work early that morning, like 5:15, 5:30. She is like, she barely got into bed.




So he admits that she went to bed. Are we supposed to believe that she woke up just 2 hours later, in order to have an 'emotional conversation' about the state of their marriage?

I have a hard time believing that. She was sick, deep into a high risk pregnancy, and had just returned from a delayed business flight. No way she is popping up out of bed at 4 am to discuss their issues. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

So mutilation of a corpse would not be classed as abuse of a corpse ?

The Prosecutor is who decided the charges not me.

 

[katydid23]

The statute uses the exact words it means to use. The "same thing" is your opinion. Desecrate has religious connotations that I do not wish to debate.
CW is charged under Colorado statutes.

There are not just 'religious' connotations. They are human values, of respect for the dead. Not religious just basic common decency.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I agree! If SW was in such a state, she would never have gone to the Thrive conference/retreat. She wouldn't be able to function normally, she would've taken the children's lives and her own while CW was away from the house if this was her plan.

CW talking about separation isn't the be-all and end-all of a marriage/relationship, SW still had fight in her to win him back, imo. It's not close to a divorce and a separation of months to let emotions become unstable, no legal documents signed, CW wasn't shacked up with his lover and flaunting his new found freedom to all and sundry. Nothing concrete yet for SW to become enraged about and immediately kill her daughters in the middle of the night! (I doubt this was even a thought in her head.)

It was CW who felt trapped, ultimatums were being made, he ceased caring for his family and sadly, even more so for his children, the apple of SW's eye, everything was about them! They had to go and CW seemed relieved, imo, in those porch interviews.
If CW cared so much for his darling daughters that he killed their killer, there isn't a logical reason to proceed with a cover up. JMO

This. Thank you. A 15-30 minute conversation in the middle of the night to a go-getter who felt she had sway over her husband, after a significant absence, would in my mind upset her greatly but not do her in. All was far from lost from her vantage point if we are to believe the emotional conversation part of CW's story. There was no reason to panic yet, even if he was her world, which I actually think the video evidence and postings show her children were her world first and foremost. I could see a woman who didn't have mental instability slapping him across the face at declaring he had an AP and wanted out when she is pregnant with his child, but not more than that. She was not a wallflower - I would expect SW upset would mean a raised voice, a fight. Not a quiet descent into madness to harm what she loved more than her husband IMO. The fact that everything he did post murders shows overwhelming evidence of guilt makes me confident in the opinion that there was only one murderer in the house.

 

[Tortoise]

I think that's true. However what I cited to awhile ago that another poster mentioned many threads back is that several hours after death (I believe), the body, especially extremities, can turn blue. So either he saw his child turn blue before she was dead or he saw her awhile after death.

And either way it is scientific evidence that shows Shanann did not srangle the children, or at least Bella.

 

[Best of What's Around]

The statute uses the exact words it means to use. The "same thing" is your opinion. Desecrate has religious connotations that I do not wish to debate.


CW is charged under Colorado statutes.

Respectfully, not according to Webster's dictionary definition of the word desecration. There is no mention of anything religious associated with the word.