Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[gitana1]

I guess we will remember, here on Websleuths, Orca, carrying her dead calf for 17 days.
This is love.
What did CW display the NEXT day?
MOO.

It's especially hard for me to understand how any parent that actually loves and has a normal bond with their kids can look at him speak on the porch that next day, look at this face as he talks, at his demeanor, consider that presentation knowing he quickly disposed of the bodies of his little girls the day before, instead of calling 911, and not go, "Oh yeah. He's guilty."

It's also so confusing how the same people who can bash SW for te way she interacted with her children on video, but see no problem at all with how SW treated his children after they were dead.

I'm baffled.

 

[NuttMegg]

A mother can usually tell when her children are being sexually abused at that age because they are verbal. My granddaughter's verbal comments were all it took for her pediatrician to immediately order a forensic sexual abuse examination. The last thing a mother would do is give the children to the abuser for the weekend. JMO

If the mother already knew.

 

[RachB65]

Fell asleep after work and got way behind on this thread, ugh.
IMHO, anyone who gives an ultimatum to a man whose wife is 4 months preg with his child cannot be a very good person or at the least extremely selfish. Not sure i would be much sympathetic or receptive to much of her testimony even if she was visibly repentant and distressed.
If an ultimatum was issued by the AP then all of this would look too obvious to her i would think, even more reason to stay away from him.
Much has been made of him disabling his FB a week before the murders; I think the AP found out about the pregnancy and his plan to go NC and kicked him to the curb. It could explain his distant and unaffectionate demeanor with Shanann and the girls in NC. He was prob stewing and the pressure to rid himself of his family so he could be free built up that week, prob every time the AP ignored his texts or calls...When Shanann went to AZ and he had sole responsibility for the girls, the idea solidified or the pressure came to a boil;in either scenario, premeditated or not, annihilation was the tragic result.

 

[MyBelle]

It is possible it happened here. So I am curious if there were other parallels.

No, the Lemak case was clearly a revenge killing because the husband had a girlfriend and Lemak wanted him to suffer emotionally and she achieved her goal. There is a more recent case in IL where a mother murdered her daughter, another child and the family dog because she wanted to punish her husband. JMO

 

[Johnny1181]

I know from friends that their husbands continued to have sex with them while also having an affair and they all used birth control. As soon as the wives found out about the affair, they left the husbands and divorced.

That said, I don't know that CW wanted another child. For all I know, he may have thought SW was using birth control. He didn't look happy in the video she posted when she informed him. JMO

Except that digital foot print though... the text he sent Shanann that he was in love with the peanut already.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm going to point this out to prevent confusion. <modsnip>

1. There is no evidence of prosecutorial impropriety, or the DA being motivated by publicity. He didn’t “make up” charges.

2. There is no evidence of any suicide note.

3. There is no known DNA evidence that SW strangled her children.

4. There is no evidence of potentially incriminating information contained in SW’s medical records.

5. There is no evidence of “angry” text messages sent by SW, to either the AP or CW.

6. There is no evidence that Shanann is anything other than an innocent victim.

Of course, this is exactly true, there's no evidence.

What's happening is a youtuber,a defense attorney's guess about the court documents filed on Oct 12. It's the 2 cases cited in this document which are being interpreted as relating to SW. If @gitana1 could weigh in on her thoughts please? This was discussed on here back when the documents were filed but Scott Reish has uploaded a video on Oct 30 with his opinion but it's not fact, it's not evidence, just want to make that clear.

MR. WATTS’ MOTION FOR LEAVE TO FILE A PLEADING UNDER SEAL PURSUANT TO ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER 2016-04, AND FURTHER REQUEST TO HOLD AN EX PARTE HEARING ON THE ISSUE
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...al_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D40.pdf

 

[MCDRAW]

No such source was referenced in the post I responded to, or in the posts before it.

I didn't even know there was a court document. That's what I get for not going back and reading all post.

 

[Colorado303]

Well, since he told people before the murder he wanted to separate, then told NAU hours after the murder that he had told Shanann he wanted to separate, and then made sure to tell LE that HE initiated a conversation with his wife about a separation, he certainly was adament about wanting people to believe he was the one who wanted the separation. I wonder why? Jmo

The VI says he told her he had talked w/SW about wanting a separation many times, but SW just ignored him. Don't know if it was true or not--I can see CW saying that even if it were a lie to get people to feel sorry for him. That was before he killed SW and the girls. After they went missing, he told NUA, LE, the Thayers and others that "they decided to separate". IMO he changed his tune so he could claim she took the kids and disappeared voluntarily.

 

[The 13th]

A mother can usually tell when her children are being sexually abused at that age because they are verbal.

No.

Childhood sexual abuse is vastly underreported and unrecognized.

 

[ZsaZsa]

A mother can usually tell when her children are being sexually abused at that age because they are verbal. My granddaughter's verbal comments were all it took for her pediatrician to immediately order a forensic sexual abuse examination. The last thing a mother would do is give the children to the abuser for the weekend. JMO

Unless they are in fear of the abuser. I was just reading in my hometown paper where an adult woman has just taken action against her father for sexually abusing her from age 5 to 13. She was terrified of him and never told a soul until she finally found the courage to report him.

 

[MyBelle]

August 14, 2018
Endangered Missing Alert Issued
The Colorado Bureau of Investigations have since issued a "missing endangered alert" for Shanann Watts, Celeste and Bella due to the length of time that has passed since the three family members were seen.

yes, it also says the children had medication that was not missing so evidently they had some health issues which would be reason to call in the FBI. JMO

 

[Colorado303]

no, it wouldn't be because SW was the parent missing, not CW and child abuse is a state crime, not a federal crime. The only reason to get the FBI immediately involved would be if local police believed the children endangered. JMO

I think FBI also handles child because it so often crosses state lines.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Of course, this is exactly true, there's no evidence.

What's happening is a youtuber,a defense attorney's guess about the court documents filed on Oct 12. It's the 2 cases cited in this document which are being interpreted as relating to SW. If @gitana1 could weigh in on her thoughts please? This was discussed on here back when the documents were filed but Scott Reish has uploaded a video on Oct 30 with his opinion but it's not fact, it's not evidence, just want to make that clear.

MR. WATTS’ MOTION FOR LEAVE TO FILE A PLEADING UNDER SEAL PURSUANT TO ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER 2016-04, AND FURTHER REQUEST TO HOLD AN EX PARTE HEARING ON THE ISSUE
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...al_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D40.pdf

FWIW - I haven't watched any of the Scott Reish Youtube videos - I don't even know who he is.

 

[MCDRAW]

A mother can usually tell when her children are being sexually abused at that age because they are verbal. My granddaughter's verbal comments were all it took for her pediatrician to immediately order a forensic sexual abuse examination. The last thing a mother would do is give the children to the abuser for the weekend. JMO

I'm not saying he was or wasn't abusing them because I haven't seen any evidence. I just wanted to say not all children are verbal and not everyone that was abused tells.

 

[NuttMegg]

yes, it also says the children had medication that was not missing so evidently they had some health issues which would be reason to call in the FBI. JMO

More likely the fbi was called in because cw said they could have been taken = kidnapped. Oopsie!

 

[nwmouse]

We'll agree to disagree. I believe a sad day for justice is when innocent people are convicted for crimes they didn't commit. JMO

We'll agree to disagree, no problem.
MOO

 

[gitana1]

But you're not getting it out of thin air, there's the court documents filed October 12, (one case cited is about a suicide note) -

MR. WATTS’ MOTION FOR LEAVE TO FILE A PLEADING UNDER SEAL PURSUANT TO ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER 2016-04, AND FURTHER REQUEST TO HOLD AN EX PARTE HEARING ON THE ISSUE

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...al_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D40.pdf

It must be remembered that counsel for Mr. Watts is not the privilege-holder of protected information. Cf., People v. Sisneros, 55 P.3d 797 (Colo. 2002)(holding that, even where the government called a witness whose memory of the crime was only elucidated after speaking with a psychologist, the privilege-holder herself did not waive the privilege with her testimony at the preliminary hearing.); and Wesp v. Everson, 33 P.3d 191, 199-200 (Colo. 2001)(noting that attorneys may not disclose attorney-client privileged information, even after the privilege-holder has died).

The two cases cited -

People v. Sisneros, 606 P.2d 1317 – CourtListener.com

Wesp v. Everson, 33 P.3d 191 – CourtListener.com

Those cases are about privilege. The facts of the cases have zero bearing on this one. Only the law does and the face inasmuch as they show the interplay between an attorney's responsibilties to their client and privilege issues.

 

[NuttMegg]

yes, it also says the children had medication that was not missing so evidently they had some health issues which would be reason to call in the FBI. JMO

What health issues did they have that were serious enough to call the fbi?

 

[MCDRAW]

I would love to discuss evidence, and inferences/speculation we can draw from it, anytime. I just do not understand how we can say we wouldn't be surprised there was damning evidence against the victim without anything to back it up? To me, it starts to feel like victim bashing if there is zero evidence or basis laid for the speculation. Just IMO MOO

This whole case has felt like victim bashing to me. People took the word of a killer and ran with it. It almost feels like he is off limits but she is fair game. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Those cases are about privilege. The facts of the cases have zero bearing on this one. Only the law does and the face inasmuch as they show the interplay between an attorney's responsibilties to their client and privilege issues.

Thank you gitana, I thought as much too.